[RamsSB99]

Originally Posted by chiguy

I've been arguing on various message boards for three years now about the need for a defensive end. I also have argued for at least two years that we need a WR. I don't think we need CB help (not a rookie anyway) and agree that safety is a need but don't think we'll find one of good value this year. None of this precludes us from drafting an offensive tackle too.

I never said don’t draft an OT my suggestion was to fill the bigger areas of need first. As you mentioned above those are bigger areas of need. You agreed DE, WR, and Safety are a big area of need I had us taking one each in our first four picks. I also had us taking a CB because we have Brown and Hill who have been adequate at best IMO and a CB would have the opportunity to push Brown for a starting job and could see a lot of time at nickel back.

Originally Posted by chiguy

Here is your problem -- you don't engage my points about our young guys. Yes, they did well as a unit for a six game stretch against weak competition two years ago. THAT IS ALL THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE THAT THEY HAVE UPSIDE. We have no idea what these guys would give us against better teams, over a full season. I don't see how operating on "faith" in some amorphous concept of "upside" -- especially when all of the young guys have had injuries other than Barron -- is using "logic" when pointing to their onfield performance isn't logical.

Let me start off by saying thank you for diagnosing my problem I didn't know you were a psychologist.

The four of the five projected starters have 20 or more games of starting experience. That leaves one position Center that will be between Romberg with 12 starts and Setterstrom with 9 starts. In their starts they definitely did not look like busts they showed good potential in the NFL. I don’t know who you have in mind in rounds 2 and beyond that you could say would be better at Center then them. You want to bring evidence into this disagreement then where is your evidence that these players drafted after round 1 can be better or even judge how they will fair against NFL competition.

Originally Posted by chiguy

Barron is *maybe* average. Romberg has done nothing to suggest he is better than average. Pace isn't average, but he also hasn't really played for over two seasons and had a skill set in decline. Ditto Incognito. And everyone who has paid attention will point out that Setterstrom has work to do in the passing game. You're way overstating the abilities of our players. Yes, there is room to improve and I have hope for some of them, but NFL teams don't win by making assumptions.

First, why wouldn't Jake Long *not* start over Alex Barron or Richie Incognito? If he's really worth a top 10 pick in the NFL draft, I think its ridiculous to say that unproven players would definitely start over him. Past that, Setterstrom started his rookie year despite being a 7th round draft pick. Who is to say that a guy we draft in the fourth or fifth round (let alone rounds one through three) wouldn't be better than him?

I agree Jake Long would have a shot but as was stated and no one seemed to be arguing with my first round pick it went to Chris Long. IMO I don’t think Jake is more of an upgrade at OT then Chris is a DE. Barron was a first round pick and Incognito had first round talent but fell due to injury and attitude concerns. It’s a stretch to think that a first year player in rounds 2 and later will come in and beat either of them out of a position. Most likely any second round pick or later will set behind the two of them the entire year.

Originally Posted by chiguy

But you can't simply say, "I like our guys just 'cause so therefore no one we draft will play above them."

Speaking of putting words in peoples mouths. I never said we had a star studded OL but we do have a lot bigger needs. We already spent big money on a guard for our OL and we have back many of our OL that most people thought was good going into last year before all the injuries.

Can you tell me whom you would draft in round 2 and beyond for the OL that will see significant playing time this year?

We have seen 20 or more starts in the NFL from four of our five starters Barron (43 starts), Pace (140), Bell (46 starts), Incognito (20 starts) to say we don’t know what type of player we can expect out of them but we can expect someone we draft after round two to beat them out is ridiculous. Romberg has 12 starts and Setterstrom has 9 starts and both have looked good in their starts. We have seen what they can do in several starts and to say that they played against all bad teams is ridiculous. We also have Fry which many thought could be a good center coming into last year. He has yet to start a game in the NFL. So maybe we should draft another Fry this year. I have never said I was enamored with our OL but I don’t see where we can clearly upgrade our OL in the second round and beyond. Not nearly like I can see how we can upgrade the other positions of need. If we did not have so many other areas that are far more glaring needs then I would consider OL much earlier in the draft.