ClanRam Careers

[AvengerRam]

That last post made me roll my eyes so far that I can actually see my own brain.

[coy bacon]

Mr. Hubison,
The fault is all mine, and I apologize for the error.

Elacky,
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

Boy was that a dud of an advice post... sort of a throw-back to the 1980s avant-garde rhetoric on how to get rich. Pseudo-rebel without a cause? You really believe that all of the rich are uneducated rule-breakers and that the way to get a fat bank account is to remain ignorant of the world, buck any and all trends, make your own rules, and come up with novel ideas on how to get rich? Gee all my friends like that are doing great sweeping McDonald floors, or working late hours and selling car parts that they happen to come across.

I'm guessing that you're following in the paths of Homer Simpson, Al Bundy, and Rube Goldberg?

COY: Come, ElAcky. We must return to the lab to prepare for tomorrow night.
ELACKY: Gee, Coy, what are we going to do tomorrow night?
COY: The only thing I know how to have any fun doing. Trying to take over the world!

NARF!

[adarian_too]

Lots of sage advice here. Might I point out a different angle however? Who do you know? What's that got to with anything you ask? Well, I submit for your consideration a lot of what you do now depends on what you can reliably depend on later.

Since you have posed the question in the 1st place, I assume you are not independently wealthy. Without that luxury you will obviously have to find a way to earn money to pay the minimum expenses of survival. After education you will need a job. As much as qualifications are cited as the way to open doors and get ahead in the world this is a myth. What opens doors are people. Whomever you know well will likely assist you in getting an interview in some place that they know well through their relationships. An education might help you once the door is open, but getting the door open in the 1st place is the hard part and that again depends on who you know.

Assuming you know no one, and have no experience in anything, the choice of education will probably be governed by the value it provides. If the political science professor is a Director of a research institute then taking his class and maybe others taught by him could enhance the likelihood of you being able to secure a recommendation from him to be submitted to as place that knows him and his reputation.

Do you want to join a professional field? Lawyer, doctor, educator, plumber, electrician? Although you will need to probably be licensed in the field of choosing, securing a job will depend upon someone you know telling you about an opening someplace which is prepared to interview you because someone else spoke highly of you. Recommendations, references all boil down to people and relationships. You can acquire an undergraduate degree in any field you like, then apply to law school, and ultimately pass the bar. But if you have not cultivated relationships which will open the doors to either clients or employers, you likely won't be a lawyer. Books will always be there. But people will not.

Decide who you want to be like. Who you want to be around. Who might be the mentor. What qualities do they have? What field are they in? Perhaps a pattern emerges. It is likely that your 1st job will be dictated by how urgently you need money not by which major you pursued. The best prospect you porbably will have is by linking the people that you know with the field of interest. When you know who you could likely turn to for a favor you will realize how difficult the path will be in front of you. Do you have the time and energy for it? Or would you rather just make enough money to make ends meet so you can pursue your favorite interests during other times? Do you need a degree to play music, paint or write screenplays? Probably not.

So in the end it could come down to what can you afford to do? And can you get any help from people to do it?

Regardless, "If man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he steps to the beat of a different drummer. Let him step to that beat no matter how measured or far away." - Thoreau

[vicdan]

Originally Posted by adarian_too

Assuming you know no one, and have no experience in anything, the choice of education will probably be governed by the value it provides. If the political science professor is a Director of a research institute then taking his class and maybe others taught by him could enhance the likelihood of you being able to secure a recommendation from him to be submitted to as place that knows him and his reputation.

Do you want to join a professional field? Lawyer, doctor, educator, plumber, electrician? Although you will need to probably be licensed in the field of choosing, securing a job will depend upon someone you know telling you about an opening someplace which is prepared to interview you because someone else spoke highly of you. Recommendations, references all boil down to people and relationships. You can acquire an undergraduate degree in any field you like, then apply to law school, and ultimately pass the bar. But if you have not cultivated relationships which will open the doors to either clients or employers, you likely won't be a lawyer. Books will always be there. But people wil lnot

Hey I cannot agree more with you adarian that's a great advise to EDM I quoted that because that exactly what happened to me as a studen I got great marks and the best average of my career, also an honor Mention in my thesis, but guess what I always was a person without many relations, very quiet as a teenager, maybe was my personality but it ended afecting me because what you said is sad but true I have taken many interviews for good jobs but the qualifications is not what really matters is what you said you need recommendations and I have seen that all the time at least here in Mexico if you are not well related your'e out, sadly but true thanks god and my family we have buses and I'm working now there but the incomes are very few so I'm trying to find a better job but what you wrote explain very well what is happening to me now and guess what? always get the job recommended people.
Yes at least EDM you try to do realtionships as many as you can that's a good advise unless like elacky you work for yourself but anyway to that you also will need it.

[evil disco man]

Thanks to EVERYONE for your advice, compliments, support, and for sharing your experiences while putting everything in perspective. I'll definitely keep an open mind, even during college, about my future career. I agree that a lot of times it's not what you know but who you know, as it is many times in life if you want access to anything. Developing relationships and experiencing everything available to you is the joy of life, afterall.

[UtterBlitz]

Originally Posted by Evil Disco Man

College is coming for me this fall but I go in undecided as to what my major will be. I'm paying my own way through college (meaning I can't become a professional college student), so it's sort of important that I make up my mind soon. I've leaned toward journalism and marketing/advertising in the past, but I'm still completely open-minded about it and am interested in what your careers/jobs are like.

I'd like to hear what you do, how you became involved or interested in it, what classes (and major) you took in college for it (if any), and the positive and negative aspects of it. Any other wise words or advice would be appreciated. riental:

Disco Man. I went to three different schools, dropped out once, and switched majors at least three times. I paid for some of the schooling and all of my living expenses. It took me seven years to finish. It won't be easy. Don't fool yourself. Paying for it yourself is a big deal.

I started out in engineering because I THOUGHT that I was good in math and science. 5 hour calc, CAD, Chemistry for science majors and Statics and Dynamics convinced me that I was not meant for engineering. I dropped out, went into retail sales for a while, then I headed back into school, Business this time. I thought about being a Systems Analyst for a while but then I ran into Accounting. It was so easy that I picked it for my major. Somewhere in my brain, a theory popped in that told me accounting was good money and little hours. See, I am lazy...and I was wrong. I went into public accounting and it was hard and there were lots of hours. But now, years later, in private industry, it is easy and I am coasting trying to figure out what to do next.

I would recommend talking to some writers, now, if you think that you may want to write some day. Ask Howard or Barry for an interview and then write us an article about them. That would be cool.

Let me know if you want to talk to my friend who is a writer. I am sure she could give you some details about the industry.

I think it is hard to get anywhere with a 4 year marketing/advertising degree. You might want to pick something more specific.

How predictable that most of you respond that way !! - human nature is to knock anything you find out of your reach.. i.e. keeps the 90% club at bay

I never said that education is bad for you just that's it sociologically programs you to be risk averse.. Following the path of the many leads to mediocrity... ( I know you guys hate to hear that)

I went to college (majoring in information technology - hated it but somehow got through it) and was an employee for nearly 10 years... I knew that I would only ever be Mr 2.2 (kids, cars etc..) if I didn't change things.... I started by anaysing people and reading about human psychology (more than cheesy get rich quick books)... the way I finally got ahead was to stop towing the party line.... as a management consultant, if someone came up with an answer that equated to A and everyone agreed with him... I would analyse any alternative to A that I could think of... 90% of the time there weren't any alternatives but the 10% opened up opportunities. Today I still have to work for someone as I'm contracted for another 18 months... but I have 17 other consultants working for me.... I'm not rich (at least not by my terms)... but i know that it is almost impossible to be happy while others hold the key to your destiny.

btw: most of the advice provided in the 80's (as you say) is even more valid today and indeed, its easy to knock what you are incapable of comprehending or achieving.

AV: I don't know why you roll your eyes... you have your own practive... you should understand this.... On the other hand, putting your medieval fantasies on print and bearing it to all would cause most sensible people to fall off their chair.

[HUbison]

Originally Posted by ElAcky

I knew that I would only ever be Mr 2.2 (kids, cars etc..) but i know that it is almost impossible to be happy while others hold the key to your destiny.

Elacky, the world needs people like you. Those that are ready to question everything and find an alternative to every solution. People like you are catalysts of innovation and I respect that. However, as one of the Mr. 2.2s of the world, let me add there is nothing wrong with that either. I have a wife and kids, I have a great job. I'll never be financially rich, but my salary is more than adequate and I will never need anything. There may be things I want and never get, but I've got everything I need.

And if by saying "others hold the key to your destiny", you mean being an employee, then you are sorely mistaken. I know both employees and employers and as far as happiness goes, the employees wins hands-down.

[AvengerRam]

Elacky, the reason I can have my own practice, support a family, and, yes, have the time to indulge hobbies (regarding which, your input is duly noted and discarded), is because I worked hard to become educated, and continue to do so in my field (I also teach other lawyers at bar seminars, thereby continuing the circle).

In my experience, I have observed many people who have succeeded without a formal education. I would submit, though, that they have succeeded in spite of their lack of education, not because of it.

Of course, Paul Simon did once write "when I think back on all the crap I learned in High School, its a wonder I can think at all. And though my lack of education hasn't hurt me much, I can read the writing on the wall."

[adarian_too]

Originally Posted by elAcky

I never said that education is bad for you just that's it sociologically programs you to be risk averse.

I debated myself and lost ... so this is one of the other me's submiting that this statement is categorically untrue. If you had said that education programs you to be compliant or pliable I might have left it to others to challenge the statement. But you didn't. So i must respond.

If anything, I think higher education, at least on this side of the ocean, implicitly comes with risk. Do people who enter the institution seem afraid to take risks? Judging by the disbelief parents show when their kids come back on break I suggest that much risk-taking was being encouraged and taken. The risks that most students engage runs the spectrum from drug experiementation, to clothing, hair and lifestyle changes to taking classes which threaten their grade point average or contribute nothing to their desired field of learning.

Leaving a kid in school, on their own, without parental influence, subject to peer pressure, is risky business. If your statement about programming risk aversion was true I would suspect that educational institutions would have removed all vestiges of free speech and thought long ago, would have installed more rigid curriculum requirements, and would have adopted a dress code to remove notions about individuality.

But that is only one of me talking. So I may be wrong.

[SFCRamFan]

EDM,
You have received some great advice for you to ponder...Now my two cents...
I worked my way through in four years, going summers as well, and it was a grind. I changed my degree three times during that span. My advice, through my experience, would be to pay more attention to what you enjoy and excel in during your required undergraduate classes. If a course is enjoyable and doesn't seem like work, then you may have something that fits you. That may help you with your decision later.
I ended up with a degree in Advertising and a minor in Marketing. I took all of the journalism classes but still can't write as elloquently as you have in your many posts. I worked in advertising for a couple of years and it did not meet my satisfaction. Strangely, I ended up right back where I started before college; back in the Army. I just enjoy being a soldier. However, it did land me a better assignment doing some Page Ranking for the military and making my military experience a little more interesting. You have a gift with your writing skills that will help you tremendously in whatever you decide to major in. And be sure to network, meet as many people as possible. Those are your future connections for jobs and references.
Regardless of your decision, don't choose based upon how much you will make. Follow your gut and your heart to what you love to do and enjoy doing. Then it is a career and not a job...

Good Luck.

[evil disco man]

Thanks, SSG. You summed it up beautifully. :ramlogo: