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  1. #1
    OrlandoPaceIsMyHero's Avatar
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    1256 words of pure TREASON!

    I wrote this after being incensed by what I read on the RealRamsFans board, but I thought ya'll here at Clanram might like to read it as well:


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    WARNING: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ WILL ALMOST-CERTAINLY BE LABELED "TREASON" BY FANS WHO [erroneously] CLAIM TO LOVE THE RAMS MORE THAN I!!!

    The following is a theoretical situation (I know, I know, it isn't real life and I'm not trying to claim that it is) entirely fabricated by me in order to make an argument:

    First, I have to lay down two assumptions in order to make myself clear. Assume the following:

    1: The Rams are out of the playoff race for the 2006-7 season. [I believe this because I think that their defense is just too awful, especially against the run, to go anywhere in the playoffs this season.]

    2: The Rams need a quarterback to succeed the aging Marc Bulger [bear with me here]. They have two choices, Brady Quinn (who will be drafted by the team with the #6 pick), or Troy Smith (who will go to the team with the #12 pick). For the sake of this argument, please assume that Quinn is one of the greatest football players of all time, and Troy Smith is merely mediocre. If the Rams win their last two, they pick 12th, if they lose, they pick 6th.




    Now we can get on to the interesting stuff:

    SITUATION 1: The Rams throw the final two games...

    Let's say that Scott Linehan and the players agree to throw the last two games. They play hard through the first 3.5 quarters, maybe they're even winning the game, and then they intentionally throw interceptions/fumble/fall on the ground on defense in order to lose the last two games.

    "Hardcore" fans, who uncompromisingly value victories above all else, even if they are meaningless, are distgusted with the team and write all kinds of horrible things while bedridden with disgust after witnessing team commit such an atrocity.

    There is an upside, however. Using their improved draft position, the rams draft Notre Dame prima donna Brady Quinn. Quinn turns out to be the ultimate football player, supassing even golden boy Tom Brady's accomplishments as he leads the rams to five consecutive superbowl victories and establishes their 2007-2011 run as one of the greatest dynasties in pro football history. In the meantime, the Niners, who drafted Troy Smith, struggle to make him a decent starter and spend the same period getting dominated by Quinn's Ram powerhouse.


    SITUATION 2: The Rams take the manly route win out simply for the sake of winning.

    "Hardcore" fans sleep well and have a happy, hungover Monday because their boys beat the snot out of some other team even though it didn't matter, showing their manhood and "heart".

    They pick Troy Smith, who winds up being a mediocre NFL quarterback along the lines of Brian Greise. In the meantime, the archrival San Fransisco team (who intentionally lost) drafts Quinn and wins their own five superbowls. Rams fans never hear the end of how great the niners are, as they now have superbowls in four straight decades and it is widely agreed that they are the greatest football franchise ever.

    Looking back on the situation ten years down the road, would you "hardcore" fans really still think that throwing the last two (meaningless) games was that bad of a blunder?

    You've surely seen it coming by now, but let me make it clear. Here comes the TREASON: If the above situations were representative of the real world, I WOULD ADVOCATE THE RAMS INTENTIONALLY LOSING THEIR LAST TWO GAMES!!!!!!! [evil chord plays]

    In actuality, I personally don't think that the Rams should throw the last two games, but I WROTE THIS POST in order to express my disagreement with the METHOD OF REASONING that the "hardcore" types employ in their decision-making. I don't understand how you can CATEGORICALLY CONDEMN the use of a strategy such as losing on purpose simply because you have some moral abhorrance for intentionally allowing the other team to have more points than you have at the end of 60 minutes of football! [interesting sidenote: did you really "lose the game" in any sense other than the scoreboard if you LET the other team win right at the end???] I think that this kind of hard-line rule could lead to your stubborn sense of "manhood" forcing you to make some pretty stupid decisions (in the theoretical above, picking situation 2 over situation 1). Once again: Would you still be proud of your manly decision making as you watched the Brady Quinn Niners pound the rams and win five superbowls as troy smith struggles?


    Self proclaimed "hardcore" fans: You have the right to believe what you want to believe, what I cannot tolerate is the way that you call your fellow Rams fans "phony" or "less dedicated" fans because they see the Rams' best course of action differently than you do. I wrote this to show you how they could potentially come to a different conclusion than you did and to encourage you to consider thinking about their impression of the situation and how it differs from yours before jumping to the counterproductive, rude, and obnoxious personal attacks that I have seen employed so much recently on this board.


    SPARE ME YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS! Before I get called out for "not understanding football" like so many other Rams fans have recently on this board, I wanted to mention my background. I certainly am not untouchable, but I have what I think is a reasonably significant football background.

    I played four years of offensive tackle in high school football, was all league twice, all-CIF, and won a CIF championship my senior year. I am entering into my senior year of college football at the division three level, still grinding it out in the trenches at offensive line. I have given as much to the Rams as I could have in my young life considering that I am the first person in my family to watch the NFL and support a team. As the sole Rams fan in a vehemently anti-Ram Raider Nation school in 2001, I was harassed mercilessly after painting myself gold and blue the day before the superbowl, and wearing my Rams jersey the Monday after the game in order to show my support for the Rams' effort. I still wear my Rams gear after every game, win or lose, to show my unconditional support for the team.

    As I said before, I don't think that the Rams should lose these games intentionally, because I don't think that the cost compensates for the benefit in this situation. I posted this because I disagree even more strongly with the irrational attitude and unrealistic reasoning that some fans on this board have towards this situation (e.g. something like the situation 1 and 2 that I presented).


    READ THIS ONE MORE TIME BEFORE YOU FLAME ME, I want to make one thing clear: I DISAGREE WITH THIS ANALYSIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REAL WORLD! I don't think that this is actually what is going to happen, and I believe that it isn't in the rams self-interest to lose out simply because to me, picks 1-5 are worse than picks 6-15, [see what I posted about a week ago detailing how I think that top first round picks are a bad investment] and scouting is so far from perfect that no one could possibly know ahead of time with any certainty that Quinn is going to be THAT GREAT and Smith will be THAT BAD.

    Long time reader,
    OrlandoPaceIsMyHero


    ---------


  2. #2
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    I am willing to be everything i own in this world (and you all know that i never bet on anything) that brady quinn doesnt make it to the 6th pick.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel


  3. #3
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Sounds like a true 5 year old Rams fan to me.


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

  4. #4
    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Quote Originally Posted by OrlandoPaceIsMyHero View Post





    WARNING: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ WILL ALMOST-CERTAINLY BE LABELED "TREASON" BY FANS WHO [erroneously] CLAIM TO LOVE THE RAMS MORE THAN I!!!

    The following is a theoretical situation (I know, I know, it isn't real life and I'm not trying to claim that it is) entirely fabricated by me in order to make an argument:


    2: The Rams need a quarterback to succeed the aging Marc Bulger [bear with me here]. They have two choices, Brady Quinn (who will be drafted by the team with the #6 pick), or Troy Smith (who will go to the team with the #12 pick). For the sake of this argument, please assume that Quinn is one of the greatest football players of all time, and Troy Smith is merely mediocre. If the Rams win their last two, they pick 12th, if they lose, they pick 6th.
    Sorry I'm selling this. The aging Marc Bulger? Like a fine wine? Pro bowl quarterback of the St. Louis Rams? The sense of urgency for a starting qb is ridiculous in my opinion. This team needs help from free agency/draft but.... and let me repeat... but it's not at the quarterback position.:x

    Try fabricating a LB,DT or DE that turns out like Brian Urlacher, Merlin Olson or Deacon Jones. We all know the Rams weakness this season and for the near future is defense.:\

    Also, we are still alive this season..... :r

  5. #5
    Goldenfleece's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    I don't understand how you can CATEGORICALLY CONDEMN the use of a strategy such as losing on purpose simply because you have some moral abhorrance for intentionally allowing the other team to have more points than you have at the end of 60 minutes of football!
    How can you not condemn a strategy that would have our players sacrifice any shred of integrity just so they could have slightly better odds of getting more points at the end of 60 minutes of football in next year's Super Bowl...or the year after that or whenever.

    Once again: Would you still be proud of your manly decision making as you watched the Brady Quinn Niners pound the rams and win five superbowls as troy smith struggles?
    Absolutely. Because you don't judge decisions based on the outcome; you base them on the reasoning that went into it. If you go out to Vegas and bet everything you own hoping to get that inside straight, I'm going to say it's a stupid idea even if it happens to work out for you. Unless we were in position to potentially finish last, there would be no guarantee that any given player would be available when we drafted. And as you yourself say, under no circumstances would we ever be able to guarantee that the player we drafted would be a star.

    Accepting the premises you set out is just silly. We might as well discuss how to approach the off-season assuming that (a) football is a single player sport, and (b) it is played underwater. If you use a situation that clearly does not reflect reality, your conclusions aren't going to reflect reality either.

    Throwing a game or two is a major thing. The team would be cheating every fan who paid the price of admission or even wasted an afternoon watching the team try to lose. I don't watch football just to see the Rams win the Super Bowl. If I did, I wouldn't even bother tuning in until February. The point is to see the team compete. I'll watch the team even when they're losing because of that. Maybe fans who would throw a game are not any less dedicated, but they certainly are a different kind of fan.

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    rampete is offline Registered User
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    the cold startling fact, yes a fact, is that if a player or coach looks bad or fails to perform on an acceptable level then he/they will inevitably face a higher probability than chance of having to look for another job next season...i can't imagine anyone willing to chance being ridiculed by fans and released by the organization so that a highly touted rookie can come in and steal the starting position, and the salary and bonus incentives that comes with it, away from him...and i'm not even talking about self-dignity...

  7. #7
    RAMFANRAIDERHATER's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    The guy lost me at "aging QB Marc Bulger...."

    First of all, there is no single player in this draft, or any, that can turn around a team. Besides, Quinn is not going to be the next coming of Joe Montana, nor is Troy Smith. Someone's smokin' something. Many of the greatest players were drafted in the later rounds anyway. How many "superstars" drafted in the first round are busts? ..or at least, underachievers? I could look up the stats if I didn't have anything to do, but what for? I've heard it a million times. "Hall of famer so-and-so, drafted in the fourth round, behind number one draft bust (fill-in-the-blank)". Personally, I cringe at the thought of drafting in the first couple of spots. They rarely pan out as expected, are way overpaid, and never "turn around a team". So the whole premise of purposely losing games to get a higher draft pick is ridiculous from the get-go. What the Rams need are D players (everywhere) and O-linemen. What the Rams need is a good quantity of good draft picks in the second through final rounds. Mixed in with some FA's here and there. Bulger will be our QB (hopefully) for many years to come if we keep him upright and pay him what a pro-bowler is worth. Any player, in any sport, instantly loses my respect and admiration if I know they've thrown a game. I have no respect for anyone that cashes it in. There is no honor in that. What a dumb thread.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  8. #8
    laram0's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    The guy lost me at "aging QB Marc Bulger...."

    First of all, there is no single player in this draft, or any, that can turn around a team. Besides, Quinn is not going to be the next coming of Joe Montana, nor is Troy Smith. Someone's smokin' something.
    Ah, so we have found Barrons smoking buddy.

  9. #9
    blood85's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    I think we have more problems than getting a few draft picks or trading for a few vets, .....let's try to enjoy the rest of the season....Go Rams Go!!

  10. #10
    bigredman's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    I am willing to be everything i own in this world (and you all know that i never bet on anything) that brady quinn doesn't make it to the 6th pick.

    ramming speed to all

    general counsel
    I won't put everything I own up against everything you own (I can't match your pot), but I'll bet 6 of the largest, top of the line Fillet Mignon's from Omaha Steaks that Quinn will NOT be picked before the 6th pick of the first round. Agreed?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #11
    RamFan_Til_I_Die's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredman View Post
    I won't put everything I own up against everything you own (I can't match your pot), but I'll bet 6 of the largest, top of the line Fillet Mignon's from Omaha Steaks that Quinn will NOT be picked before the 6th pick of the first round. Agreed?
    GC you should definitely take that bet...oh and BTW the 10 oz filets come in sets of 4, 8, or 16 but no 6...I say bet the 8 which is $218.99 after shipping costs.

  12. #12
    ramsanddodgers's Avatar
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    I would have to agree with they guy in the skirt, er kilt, in that since Quinn is allegedly the "best thing since sliced bread" there is no way he will make it to pick 6.

    There are too many guys lookiing for an NFL paycheck next year to not give it all (despite all appearances).

    They have to win the next 2 games. I honestly don't expect it to happen but hope it does so at least the Rams can say they finished strong but started too late. That and any playoff appearance is better than NO playoff appearance.

    There is history of a wild-card team winning the Super Bowl....... unless there is remarked improvement I don't care for our odds but then I still have my rose colored glasses!

    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

  13. #13
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but personally I see little in this that I'd recommend to anyone.

    The whole premise of this thread, that we should throw football games because we'll gain a proper draft position, shouldn't encourage comparisons of team devotion it should encourage a debate over it's merits.

    Quite frankly, it doesn't have any.

  14. #14
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    Re: 1256 words of pure TREASON!

    They pick Troy Smith, who winds up being a mediocre NFL quarterback along the lines of Brian Greise
    Sorry, but Brian Griese is far from mediocre...he flat-out sucks. He's a bad QB who's made a career off his father's name, who actually WAS a mediocre QB.
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