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Thread: 3-4 defense

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    eauclare is offline Registered User
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    3-4 defense

    If we end up playing more of it next year, there is one FA I would make every effort to get. His name is Terrell Suggs. He is a good tackler and pass rusher, and he's only 25 yrs old. You now hhave a speed rusher off the edge who can hold the point of attack. With the remaining FA $$$, resign Chillar and get a OL.

    Draft:
    1. A DL like Dorsey (this assumes we are still picking in the third spot.) Now you have a DL of Little, Dorsey, AC and Ryan. Suggs could play DE in 3-4 or OLB. Your LB corp is now Pisa, Sppon, Chillar, Draft and Suggs.

    2. Draft a OT AND another interior lineman.

    3. Draft a SS.

    4. Draft a speed WR.


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    rams 24/7 is offline Registered User
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    Re: 3-4 defense

    getting GLEN DORSEY would be a gamble because he suffed a nagging injury in the middle of the season and hasn't been himself ever since, but Im with you on TERRELL SUGGS but our FO is wierd and we might let him slip away

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Glenn Dorsey is not a 3-4 defensive end. He's a pass rusher from the inside. Drafting him with the intention of making him the giant middle man would be a waste of a top 5 pick and several millions of dollars. Not to mention the effort everyone on the board would have to go through to type all the complaints about the defense not being able to stop the run.

    Carriker is buld for the end spot in a 3-4. So is Chris Long. Leonard Little is not. I don't know why you listed 4 down linemen when there's only 3. Suggs is going to be a crazy amount of money. Like it was with Willis around draft time, it's not resposible to sign him. Unless you unload Pisa's cap.

    The defense is still built for the cover two. The backers, the linemen...

    There isn't a tackle with the value to be taken at the spot we'll be drafting. Frank Okam is the best bet at 320. Frank Morton and Jason Shirley, both weigh about 10 pounds more but don't have Okams ability. There isn't enough in either of the latter to warrent a giant change in the defense like that. There's too much for a rookie do to, let alone being the first man to play that position for the team.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Carriker has been good at DT, why move him? get Chris Long in and have a starting defensive line of Long, Carriker, Ryan and Little

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    To play a 3-4? Carriker will be useless. I still don't know why you have 4 guys listed for 3 spaces. A 3-4 is three guys with the hands on the gound and 4 with their hands on their knees.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedArcher7 View Post
    Glenn Dorsey is not a 3-4 defensive end. He's a pass rusher from the inside. Drafting him with the intention of making him the giant middle man would be a waste of a top 5 pick and several millions of dollars. Not to mention the effort everyone on the board would have to go through to type all the complaints about the defense not being able to stop the run.

    Carriker is buld for the end spot in a 3-4. So is Chris Long. Leonard Little is not. I don't know why you listed 4 down linemen when there's only 3. Suggs is going to be a crazy amount of money. Like it was with Willis around draft time, it's not resposible to sign him. Unless you unload Pisa's cap.

    The defense is still built for the cover two. The backers, the linemen...

    There isn't a tackle with the value to be taken at the spot we'll be drafting. Frank Okam is the best bet at 320. Frank Morton and Jason Shirley, both weigh about 10 pounds more but don't have Okams ability. There isn't enough in either of the latter to warrent a giant change in the defense like that. There's too much for a rookie do to, let alone being the first man to play that position for the team.
    Quoted for emphasis. I'd encourage anyone who thinks the 3-4 iss much more than a solid sub package to read this post.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedArcher7 View Post
    To play a 3-4? Carriker will be useless. I still don't know why you have 4 guys listed for 3 spaces. A 3-4 is three guys with the hands on the gound and 4 with their hands on their knees.

    no not for a 3-4, why do we have to change to a 3-4? our defense is years away from being big enough

    i thought by listing 4 guys as a starting DL it was clear i was talking about a 4-3

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    I like the way haslett has been using both the 3-4 and 4-3. I think in today's NFL it is VeRY important to have more looks like this to keep opposing teams always guessing. Really if a team isn't starting to use multiple defensive formations, it is going to suffer and fall behind in the league.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    As someone mentioned earler, we'd need a massive nose tackle in order to make the 3-4 run effectively. A guy like Casey Hampton in Pittsburgh or Jamaal Williams in SD. Even then if we drafted Chris Long and played Carriker and Long as 3-4 DEs, moved Little to a 3-4 OLB, signed someone like a Terell Suggs... move Pisa to the inside with WW? We'd have two extremely undersized MLBs.. I think any way you slice it, it just isn't feasible at this point in time. I think Haslett should continue coming out in 3-4 looks, but as far as a total conversion we're still about 5 or 6 players away.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Quote Originally Posted by guud
    I like the way haslett has been using both the 3-4 and 4-3.
    It's been a sort of 3-3 w/ Spoon roving in Haslett's "buck end", hasn't it? It's had its ups-and-downs, but certainly the most "interesting" defense to be found in St. Louis for some time.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Moving over to a 3-4 takes time and a large influx of players used to that system. Rushing 3 guys on 3rd and long (which drives me nuts to see a QB get that much time) is different than playing it every single down. It's not an easy and automatic transition. Our linemen are kinda small to be every down 3-4 linemen

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    no not for a 3-4, why do we have to change to a 3-4? our defense is years away from being big enough

    i thought by listing 4 guys as a starting DL it was clear i was talking about a 4-3
    I thought the thread said 3-4 defense, my mistake.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    RedArcher, can you maybe tell me why you think AC will be useless? I mean he played 3-4 DE in college, viewed himself as a 3-4 DE coming into the league, and has done rather well at shifting all over the line this year, which I would say a 3-4 DE embodies.

    That said, we don't have the linebackers to do a full time 3-4, however I think our line could handle it, so long as we play a one gap version as opposed to a two gap.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    Hey,

    I think your worried about the wrong thing. Our defense is improving and will continue to improve under Hasslet. They've drafted well under Hasslet, and I think they need to keep building on what they have. They've established a decent middle with Witherspoon, Carriker, Ryan, and at times Wroten. Is it a superbowl defense? I don't know. I think if we are going to talk about improving our team we should trade down for more picks and try to make up some of the wasted picks in the Martz era. You have to stop the bleeding before you can heel, and I feel our needs are as follows:

    1. A new front office. We remain the only team without a front office man whose soul purpose is to be in charge of the draft. Until we get a quality person in charge of personell moves (like in New England, Indy, Green Bay, Dallas, ect.) we are going to continue to waste second round picks on guys like Joe Klopfenstein. If you want to be a quality team you can't waste first and second round picks (for example look at how Dallas drafted players under Parcell) And if the Rams continue to put a horrible team on the field and charge fans high ticket prices they will continue to get games blacked out. As for players:

    2. Pass Rusher (Little our only pass rusher lost a step, got hurt this year, and is aging. Hall is the same situation and we don't have much depth at end).

    3. Offensive Line. We need a tackle and depth at Gaurd (Can we rely on Pace who is injury prone, Incognito who is injury prone, and Setterstrom)?

    4. Reciever (Bruce isn't going to last forever, Bennett can't run to the right spot on the field and has gotten hurt too often). Torry Holt and Randy McMichael are safe in my book.

    5. Safety or middle linebacker (Atogwe is decent, Chavous is decent but we don't have a hammer/run stopper. Witherspoon is a great linebacker but I would like to see more of a presence up the middle to go with Ryan and Carriker. Pisa gets hurt every year and extending his contract was a waste of money. Witherspoon was a pro bowl caliber weak side linebacker and I think we should put him at WSLB and draft or sign a bigger better MLB and/or Strong Safety. Release Pisa for cap room or restructure his contract because he's an overglorified back up and the front office only signed him to sell tickets).

    6. Kicker (Wilkins performance has dropped off to much this year to put all of my stock in his leg).

    7. Continue to improve our depth and special teams.

    If you look at the good teams, most have a pro bowl calliber player in the following positions:

    1. Left Tackle (Don't Have one)
    2. Pass Rusher (????)
    3. Quaterback (Marc Bulger if they can keep him on his feet)
    4. Reciever (???) I hate to say it but Torry and Rev Ike aren't pro bowlers any more. There are a lot of recievers out there who are better. There might not be recievers with a better work ethic, or who are smarter but there are a lot of recievers outproducing them.
    5. Running Back (Steven Jackson if they can block one player on every play).
    Last edited by Kramerica04; -12-12-2007 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: 3-4 defense

    He won't be useless at the end spot. He would be ideal for the end. But wanting to keep him in the middle would make him worthless. A 3-4 line like I've been preaching needs the massive middle man. Carriker is not that. He is however a perfect fit at the end spot. As is Chris Long. All this being said I think I replied to a tomahawks post when he still thought it was about a 4-3. I thought we were on the 3-4, I guess not...

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