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  1. #1
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    3 players and a ref

    It is amazing that a person could single out any of the 3 players or the ref as being directly responsible for the recent loss to the hawks. Mix them all together and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Marc Bulger
    I really feel for the Kid. He was brutalized again today. He started the game with erratic passes to receivers that were open. He settled down, but his frustration continued to grow throughout the game and culminated in the 3rd quarter with a pass over the middle that looked as if it were a bean ball meant for the head of Mike Martz. Instead it found its way into the hands of a hawks defender.

    #27
    Who is this guy? Where did he come from? How did he make the roster? Why is he starting? Why wasn't he benched in the first quarter of week one? For the fith straight week this guy has been caught with his pants down in no mans land. He offers zero help to the CBs and peddles backward in the middle of the field watching plays unfold in front of his eyes without reacting. He has not a clue. He is dazed and confused. He is the worst free safety that I can ever recall the Rams putting on the field.

    hodges
    What can I say? Take away everything else that happened in this game and the Rams still lose, simply because of this guy. Honestly I am not sure how any punter can be worse than Landetta was the last two seasons, but this guy is. How does he go from being a great punter in college ball, to being drafted, to an absolute disgrace to the leagacy of Bob Waterfield? I have no answer. The only thing I can think of might sound absurd. The football itself. It is different by size shape and inflation between the NFL and the college game. One thing is certain....this guy can NOT punt in the NFL.

    the ref
    I have watched the pass interference play, called on Fisher, no less than 10 times. I do not see how he interferred with the hawks receiver catching that pass. There is absolutely nothing he does that impedes the receiver from catching that ball. In fact the receiver got two free hands on the ball. The ref that made the call was positioned at the back of the end zone in front of the play. Exactly what he sees from that position I will probably never know.


    Last edited by Curly Horns; -10-10-2005 at 02:07 PM.


  2. #2
    MOM's Avatar
    MOM
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    It is amazing that a person could single out any of the 3 players or the ref as being directly responsible for the recent loss to the hawks. Mix them all together and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Marc Bulger
    I really feel for the Kid. He was brutalized again today. He started the game with erratic passes to receivers that were open. He settled down, but his frustration continued to grow throughout the game and culminated in the 3rd quarter with a pass over the middle that looked as if it were a bean ball meant for the head of Mike Martz. Instead it found its way into the hands of a hawks defender.

    #27
    Who is this guy? Where did he come from? How did he make the roster? Why is he starting? Why wasn't he benched in the first quarter of week one? For the fourth straight week this guy has been caught with his pants down in no mans land. He offers zero help to the CBs and peddles backward in the middle of the field watching plays unfold in front of his eyes without reacting. He has not a clue. He is dazed and confused. He is the worst free safety that I can ever recall the Rams putting on the field.

    hodges
    What can I say? Take away everything else that happened in this game and the Rams still lose, simply because of this guy. Honestly I am not sure how any punter can be worse than Landetta was the last two seasons, but this guy is. How does he go from being a great punter in college ball, to being drafted, to an absolute disgrace to the leagacy of Bob Waterfield? I have no answer. The only thing I can think of might sound absurd. The football itself. It is different by size shape and inflation between the NFL and the college game. One thing is certain....this guy can NOT punt in the NFL.

    the ref
    I have watched the pass interference play, called on Fisher, no less than 10 times. I do not see how he interferred with the hawks receiver catching that pass. There is absolutely nothing he does that impedes the receiver from catching that ball. In fact the receiver got two free hands on the ball. The ref that made the call was positioned at the back of the end zone in front of the play. Exactly what he sees from that position I will probably never know.


    I saw the "interference" play a couple of times myself, and didn't see it, either. The fact that the guy had, as you said, TWO free hands on the ball speaks for itself. Anyhoo.....

    I offered Pa's services as Punter on another thread. Sure, he may have only played one game, but his stats were decent looking. And this was when he was 14. I was discussing it with him last night, and he said that if he thought he could handle a lot of running, he wouldn't mind doing it. I can tell you all, he has a long, lean, muscular, and powerful leg. His punts were coming from his TOES, and still went over 40 yards on average. He was also a speed skater and cyclist in high school.

    Call me crazy, but I don't think he could be any worse than what we have now.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.stickershoppe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MLRPANCmini.jpg[/SIGPIC]This is for Randy! GO BRM!

  3. #3
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Bulger's interception throw was bad, but come on Ferter. This defense allows 37 points, and one of your three names directly responsible for this loss is Marc Bulger? Wow.
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  4. #4
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Bulger was wasn't sharp, I'll give you that, but so was most of the team. Throw in two rookies on the right side and a high school front four could get pressure. Bulger did ok, and I'm sure his arm has to be pretty sore, but maybe if we ran the ball more..........

    The phantom pass interferece call really changed the momentum of the game. Even a hawks fan at work agreed that it was a gift.

    The punting was awful and the hawks had excelent field possition all day.

    #27; Hawthorne, was brought in primarally for ST and as a Nickel/Dime back. Why he is starting @ FS and not OJ must mean that the rookie hasn't a clue. I can't imagine that OJ would be any worse than Hawthorne.


    Let's mix in dumb penalties and it mostly boils down to LACK OF DISAPLINE!:clanram:

    Hopefully Vitt can light a fire under the players arse.
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  5. #5
    dfarrar777 Guest

    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Questionable interference call? Perhaps. However, if you review the opening 99-yard kickoff return TD by Chris Johnson, there was at least one (and quite possibly two) uncalled blocks in the back.

    I think Ron Winter's crew called an okay game - they missed some stuff, but they pretty much missed it equally on both sides.

  6. #6
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Bulger's interception throw was bad, but come on Ferter. This defense allows 37 points, and one of your three names directly responsible for this loss is Marc Bulger? Wow.
    Sorry Nick that is just the way it is. It's not my fault Bulger needs to be damn near perfect in this offense because the defense can not be allowed on the field. It is not fair that he has to carry the load, especially when he gets beat to hell every game. He simply has to move the chains by throwing perfect passes to open receivers or the defense comes on in poor field position because the Rams have a high school punter. Take it up with Martz or now Vitt and get marmie the hell out of here so Bulger does not have to be perfect.

    Bulger is one tough QB and I feel for him. I know of no other QB in the league who could run this offense for Mike Martz. In fact the way he has been knocked around I doubt there is a QB in the world who would want to play in this offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarrar777
    Questionable interference call? Perhaps. However, if you review the opening 99-yard kickoff return TD by Chris Johnson, there was at least one (and quite possibly two) uncalled blocks in the back.
    Yeah they aren't very consistent with calling those blocks in the back. Seems like they could throw a flag on almost every return in the NFL. They must have some secret criteria in determining what kind of block in the back deserves to be flagged.



  7. #7
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    He settled down, but his frustration continued to grow throughout the game and culminated in the 3rd quarter with a pass over the middle that looked as if it were a bean ball meant for the head of Mike Martz.
    I think this was the first game I have ever seen Bulger actually show frustration on the field with arm gestures and barking at teammates. I guess he's human.

  8. #8
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    It's not my fault Bulger needs to be damn near perfect in this offense because the defense can not be allowed on the field.
    It's not your fault that he needs to be perfect, a point of which I don't really agree with though that's another discussion. But it is your fault that you're saying he's directly responsible for the loss because he wasn't. Not only that, but you're admitting how poor the defense is, and rather than blame them for that, you blame Marc because he wasn't perfect enough to counter it?

    Sorry Ferter, I just don't agree. If I'm looking for someone directly responsible for this loss, I look at the defense that allowed 37 points, not our QB. You could make this case in Week One, but I don't think you can make it here at all.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-11-2005 at 12:37 AM.
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  9. #9
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    I said "near perfect" not perfect.

    It goes both ways Nick. If the receivers drop balls then it is going to be their fault that the chains did not get moved to keep the defense off the field.

    If Bulger fails to hit open receivers then it is his fault.

    Bulger needed to move the chains the first offensive series to protect the lead. He had guys open but he whiffed.

    He threw the INT out of frustration which led to points for the hawks.

    Just the way I see it.

  10. #10
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter
    It goes both ways Nick.
    Apparently not on your list, is my point.
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  11. #11
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Bulger had a bad first quarter but he did not cost us the game. But tell me Nick can you name one game that you have ever held Bulger accountable for the loss. It seems that you are always quick to deflect any criticism that comes his way. Please prove me wrong by naming one game were he deserved the blame for the loss.

  12. #12
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Please prove me wrong by naming one game were he deserved the blame for the loss.
    That would be tough to do, because I'm not of the mind that any one player is responsible for a loss in a team sport. Bulger has contributed to losses, and I've criticized him when he makes bad decisions or doesn't execute. Off the top of my head, if you want specific games in which I feel he shoulders a larger part of the blame, I'd probably go with 2003's road loss to Seattle (I remember two horrible INTs in that one), San Fran, and Detroit (though didn't he get injured?), as well as 2004's loss at Buffalo. You could make a case for 2005's loss @ San Fran as well as to the Giants, because his INTs were killers there, but I personally think there were bigger factors at fault in those two - the defense.

    But I guess I'm of the mind that a guy who boasts a 97.5 QB rating is probably less at fault for a loss than a defense that gave up 37 points. Maybe I'm just crazy like that though, I dunno. My point is that if we're trying to find players directly responsible for this loss, Bulger isn't one of the top three I'd be pointing my finger at, and I think it's both unrealistic and unfair to do so. I agree with Ferter's latter two, but how about we start with the defense that allowed Matt Hasselbeck to complete over 70% of his passes and throw for two touchdowns, with both his starting receivers out? Allowed Shaun Alexander to rush for 4.76 yards per carry and two touchdowns? Didn't force one turnover all game?

    Or was Chris Johnson responsible for all that, and thus, all of it was covered by naming him?

    I digress. All I was trying to say was, in this specific instance, I think more blame falls on the entire defense than does Marc Bulger, who by far did not play a perfect game or even an excellent game, but in my opinion, was far less of a factor in this defeat.
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  13. #13
    STLRAMSFAN Guest

    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    That would be tough to do, because I'm not of the mind that any one player is responsible for a loss in a team sport.
    Then why blame the defense if you are unable to hold people accountable. Why not always make a generalization that it was the team. Because if you single out the defense you have to start looking at why and then you start getting down to the player that really cost the game.

    Bulger has contributed to losses, and I've criticized him when he makes bad decisions or doesn't execute. Off the top of my head, if you want specific games in which I feel he shoulders a larger part of the blame, I'd probably go with 2003's road loss to Seattle (I remember two horrible INTs in that one), San Fran, and Detroit (though didn't he get injured?), as well as 2004's loss at Buffalo. You could make a case for 2005's loss @ San Fran as well as to the Giants, because his INTs were killers there, but I personally think there were bigger factors at fault in those two - the defense. But I guess I'm of the mind that a guy who boasts a 97.5 QB rating is probably less at fault for a loss than a defense that gave up 37 points. Maybe I'm just crazy like that though, I dunno.
    I just asked a simple question and it looks like to me you cannot say a specific game without defending him. I understand you really like the guy, as do many of the Ram fans including myself.

  14. #14
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    Then why blame the defense if you are unable to hold people accountable.
    STL, you asked me to name one game where Bulger deserved the blame for the loss, and I said one player does not cost their team the game. I don't think you can blame one guy for a loss. But people make mistakes, and I will hold them accountable for that, just as I will give credit when things are done right.


    Quote Originally Posted by STLRAMSFAN
    I just asked a simple question and it looks like to me you cannot say a specific game without defending him.
    Um, I just listed multiple specific games in the post you quoted, so I'm not sure where you come up with the fact that I can't name them.
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  15. #15
    Curly Horns's Avatar
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    Re: 3 players and a ref

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    Apparently not on your list, is my point.
    We all know it is a team game and one player should not be singled out for a WIN or a LOSS.

    That is why I started the thread by saying it is amazing that a person could single out three different players.

    Sure I can spin it any way you want to get each and everyone of them off the hook.

    Bulger should not be faulted for his performance because the defense gave up 37 points.

    #27 should not be faulted for his performance because the offense put the defense in poor field position by not moving the ball. The offense is also at fault because they only answered with 21 points.

    The punter should not be faulted because the offense did not move the ball and he had to punt deep in his own territory. He did his job. He got the punts off and the defense came onto the field and gave up the points.

    But hey, at least when I'm gonna spin something, it does go both ways and that's not even my point.

    With somewhere around 7 mins to go in the 3rd quarter Martz called another pass and Bulger got sacked for the umpteenth time. The impression I got from Bulger is that he was pissed and frustrated at that point. So, what does Martz do? He calls another pass. Bulger promptly chucks it up for grabs over the middle in a fit of frustration. The score was 27-21 at that point, but the hawks, with good field position again, after the INT, marched in for the TD. Score is now 34-21 and the Rams never recover. End of game. Huge mistake that could be looked at as being directly responsible towards the outcome.

    Nick, reagardless of what you or others might think here at the ClanRam, I am not a QB guy. I do not have favorite players or positions of play, however, I will take a group of sloberknockers on defense over the glory boys on offense any day.

    Gernerally I think QBs are the prima donnas of the league. I find it funny how they are so easily given credit for wins. Singled out - mind you. How often do you hear that some QB won the Super Bowl? Or some QB won 4 Super Bowls? When the team wins it is the QB. But the thing that I find quite odd is that when the team loses it is most generally not the QB or it is quickly put to spin by some fans or media, who are QB lovers, that it was not the QB.

    Tell you what, since it seems to bother you so much when I do criticize one of the little prima donnas, for not playing up to snuff, I will do my very best in the future to bite my lip whenever the precious QB has a suspect performance.



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