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Thread: For all you Bartell haters out there.

  1. #31
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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Last 4 seasons...

    Player/Tackles/Passes Defended/Interceptions

    Nnamdi Asomugha: 127/26/3
    Ron Bartell: 253/47/5

    Does that mean that Bartell is the better CB? No. But maybe it shows that stats (i.e. interceptions) are not the best measure of a CB.
    Of course the response is that no one throws at asomugha. Still, 47 passes defended over 4 season is nothing to sneeze at. I for one don't mind the lack of interceptions. I'd rather a corner who defends twice as many passes with half as many interceptions than the other way. Sometimes "big play" corners get burned for trying to make the big play.
    Last edited by berg8309; -08-02-2011 at 11:02 PM. Reason: mixed up tackles and passes defended numbers when I typed it. Stupid brain didn't realize it.
    r8rh8rmike and jackson3909 like this.


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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    I heard Salas gave Bartell a sprained ankle in practice today. Gotta love those ankle breakers

  3. #33
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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    There was an article from Football outsiders I belive that pretty much showed that Bartell was the 5th best cover corner last year of all corners who had 35 or more passes thrown their way. That puts him at 7th overall, since Samuel and Nnamdi didn't make that 35 passes cut.

    He IS a good cover corner, much, much better than he gets credit for, even if he doesn't make a ton of picks.
    Just to expand on this...

    It was an interesting article to read. They ranked all corners with at least 40 charted targets (83 in 2010), removing things like hail marys, hit/tipped at line, throw aways, etc. They also had a very specific definition for their CB Success Rate percentage (the percentage of passes that don't manage to get at least 45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent of needed yards on second down, or 100 percent of needed yards on third down).

    Bartell ended up ranked 5th in their Success Rank. He also ranked 5th in lowest yards/pass allowed (5.2). Here is what Football Outsiders said about Bartell specifically...

    In my opinion, the strangest name on these lists is Ron Bartell. Highly-drafted cornerbacks often take three or four years to develop, but Bartell was a second-round pick in 2005, so this was year six. We'll have to wait a year to see whether Bartell's improvement sticks, as there's a history of veteran cornerbacks randomly having excellent years.
    What’s also interesting about Bartell is the number of times he was targeted by opposing quarterbacks. To compare to the two corners widely considered the best in the league, Nnamdi Asomugha didn’t make their threshold because he was only targeted 31 times all season (target percentage of 7.9%). Darrelle Revis, who had the best Success Rate in their 2010 ranking, was targeted 57 times (13.2%). Bartell was targeted 83 times (17.4%).

    Over the last three years, Bartell's target percentage has been decreasing (23.5% in '08, 20.7% in '09), so are opposing QBs making a conscious effort to throw away from him? It seems they might be moving that direction, but aren't quite there yet. For as much as Larry Fitzgerald praises Bartell as being one of the toughest corners to play against, the Cardinals didn't seem to mind throwing Larry's way against the Rams, targeting Fitz 26 times in two games in 2010. While not all of those passes were against Bartell in coverage, obviously some of those were.

    I think Ron Bartell is a good cornerback. Certainly the best on this team, probably the best in the NFC West. I think the argument between good vs. great (or even vs. elite) is kind of a moot point; aside from the fact that different people define these descriptions in different ways, the bigger point is that I'd bet 99% of Rams fans believe he's a good starter for this team and are glad to have him covering the opposition's top receiver. So it's an argument of minor issues. However, for me, when teams respect you so much that they throw in another direction, then you know you're one of the best in the league. I don't think Bartell is there yet, but the numbers may indicate he's trending that way.
    Last edited by Nick; -08-03-2011 at 01:05 PM.

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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    I agree with Nick. Not slamming Bartell but he's just a good corner and he really only has had one good year. Before the start of last season, I thought he had not iived up to his draft status. He's had one good year, really hope he has another one. However, I'm not so sure he can. I want him to, but I have my doubts.

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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I agree with Nick. Not slamming Bartell but he's just a good corner and he really only has had one good year. Before the start of last season, I thought he had not iived up to his draft status. He's had one good year, really hope he has another one. However, I'm not so sure he can. I want him to, but I have my doubts.
    The Rams' goal of improving their pass rush under the direction of Steve Spagnuolo should certainly help provide the opportunity. Too many times in the past, our corners have been hung out to try by opposing quarterbacks having all day to throw, which makes covering receivers rather difficult.

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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    I am getting to be as tired of Bartell haters as I am of Bulger haters. Do have a deep seated need or neurosis that demands you HAVE to hate someone on the team? Time to add some names to my list of people's posts to avoid.

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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    I think the idea of Bartell haters is just silly. The guy isn't the best corner in the world but he certainly is not a problem. Most teams, with the exception of Philly, would be happy to have him in their secondary. We should be discussing things that are actually of concern.

  8. #38
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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    I agree with Nick. Not slamming Bartell but he's just a good corner and he really only has had one good year. Before the start of last season, I thought he had not iived up to his draft status. He's had one good year, really hope he has another one. However, I'm not so sure he can. I want him to, but I have my doubts.
    This is absolutely untrue. Bartell graded out better in 2008 than he did in 2010. He was battling lingering issues throughout all of 2009.

    Bartell in 2008:

    93 attempts, 5.77 YPA, 48.39 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 3 INTs
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -08-04-2011 at 09:52 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    From Mike Sando April 18th of this year:

    Ron Bartell. The St. Louis Rams' corner earned one vote from our eight panelists, with Kuharsky ranking him 10th. Bartell defends the ball well. He tackles well. He supports the run. He has tremendous size for the position at 6-foot-1 and 206 pounds. Bartell can take the next step by making impact plays. He has no interceptions over the last two seasons. Top corners Darrelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha also have few picks recently, but the playmaking ability they showed earlier in their careers made opponents wary. Bartell has not made that happen.
    Bartell doesn't scare any QB's due to the fact he really isn't a playmaker. Maybe that's why he gets targeted more than the other #1 DBs. Not saying Bartell is a bad CB, just saying he isn't an elite CB like some of you are saying. He's a good CB which isn't a bad thing.

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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Not saying Bartell is a bad CB, just saying he isn't an elite CB like some of you are saying. He's a good CB which isn't a bad thing.
    This is what makes me chuckle about the Bartell discussions. The thread is phrased, "For all you Bartell haters out there." Where are they? Do they even exist? We have a grand total of one in this three-page, 20+ member thread. I don't recall any true "haters" in the last big Bartell debate, I believe from November.

    I would guess the vast majority of the Rams' fanbase, at least at this site, thinks Bartell is either (a) good or (b) great. Yet for some reason, it seems at times that the opinions of those who fall into the first category are twisted as if they're saying Bartell sucks or is trash or whatever, simply because they also offer a criticism of where he could improve.

    When you consider how small the distinction is between the two main parties in the debate, it's really rather a strange thing to so vehemently argue about, let alone portray as if there's some hater group out there trying to bring Ron down.

  11. #41
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    Re: For all you Bartell haters out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    This is what makes me chuckle about the Bartell discussions. The thread is phrased, "For all you Bartell haters out there." Where are they? Do they even exist? We have a grand total of one in this three-page, 20+ member thread. I don't recall any true "haters" in the last big Bartell debate, I believe from November.

    I would guess the vast majority of the Rams' fanbase, at least at this site, thinks Bartell is either (a) good or (b) great. Yet for some reason, it seems at times that the opinions of those who fall into the first category are twisted as if they're saying Bartell sucks or is trash or whatever, simply because they also offer a criticism of where he could improve.

    When you consider how small the distinction is between the two main parties in the debate, it's really rather a strange thing to so vehemently argue about, let alone portray as if there's some hater group out there trying to bring Ron down.
    BINGO!!!!!!

    If "bartell hater" is defined as someone who thinks Bartell sucks. There are not that many of them. And if there are, they are stupid

    I am in the population that thinks he is good but can improve. So, great post Nick. I don't hate Bartell, infact he is one of my favorite players. But just because he is doesn't mean I am going to make up the fact that he is an elite cb.

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