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  1. #1
    laram0's Avatar
    laram0 is offline Superbowl MVP
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    Is it any wonder?

    Is it any wonder that we've gone backwards since the glory years?

    The franchise hasn't or isn't able to attract the big name free agents. The drafting BDS (Before Devaney & Spags) has been terrible with the exception of 2008. The 2009 draft results has been okay I guess. (Realisticly to soon to grade)

    Here's a look at our Drafts from 2002-2009:

    2002:

    (Overall Pick#)- NAME-Position
    (31)-Robert Thomas-LB
    (64)-Travis Fisher-CB
    (84)-Lamar Gordon-RB
    (95)-Eric Crouch- WR...wanted to be a QB.
    (130)-Travis Scott-OL
    (167)-Courtland Bullard-LB
    (205)-Steve Bellisari-DB
    (243)-Chris Massey-OL ***

    2003:
    (12)-Jimmy Kennedy-DT
    (43)-Pisa Tinoisamoa-LB
    (74)-Kevin Curtis-WR
    (106)-Shaun McDonald-WR
    (107)-DeJuan Groce-DB
    (148)-Dan Curley-TE
    (170)-Shane Walton-DB
    (172)-Kevin Garrett-DB
    (184)-Scott Tercero-OL
    (251)-Scott Shanle-LB
    (254)-Richard Angulo-TE

    2004:
    (24)-Steven Jackson-RB ***
    (91)-Anthony Hargrove-DL
    (130)-Brandon Chillar-LB
    (158)-Jason Shivers-DB
    (201)-Jeff Smoker-QB
    (237)-Erik Jensen-TE
    (238)-Larry Turner-OL

    2005:
    (19)-Alex Barron-OL
    (50)- Ron Bartell-DB ***
    (66)- O J Atogwe-DB ***???
    (81)-Richie Incognito-OL
    (117)-Jerome Carter-DB
    (134)-Claude Terrell-OL
    (144)-Jerome Collins-TE
    (192)-Dante Ridgeway-WR
    (210)- Reggie Hodges-P

    2006:
    (15)-Tye Hill-DB
    (46)-Joe Klopfenstein-TE
    (68)-Claude wroten-DL
    (77)-Jon Alston-LB
    (93)-Dominique Byrd-TE
    (113)-Victor Adeyanju-DL ***
    (144)-Marques Hagans-WR
    (221)-Tim McGarigle-LB
    (242)-Mark Stetterstrom-OL ***
    (243)-Tony Palmer-OL

    2007:
    (13)-Adam Carriker-DL
    (52)-Brian Leonard-RB
    (84)-Jonathan Wade-DB
    (139)-Dustin Fry-OL
    (154)-Clifton Ryan-DL ***
    (190)-Ken Shackleford-OL
    (248)-Keith Jackson-DL
    (249)-Derek Stanley-WR

    2008:
    (2)-Chris Long-DL ***
    (33)-Donnie Avery-WR ***
    (65)-John Greco-OL ***
    (101)-Justin King-DB ***
    (128)-Keenan Burton-WR ***
    (157)-Roy Schuening-OL
    (228)-Chris Chamberlain-LB ***
    (252)-David Vobora-LB ***

    2009:
    (2)-Jason Smith-OL ***
    (35)-James Lauranitis-LB ***
    (66)-Bradley Fletcher-DB ***
    (103)-Dorell Scott-DL ***
    (160)-Brooks Foster-WR ***
    (196)-Keith Null-QB ***
    (211)-Chris Ogbonnaya-RB ***

    *** = Still on present RAMS roster. As you can see I have O J Atogwe as ***???.
    Last edited by laram0; -05-11-2010 at 02:05 PM.


  2. #2
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    The drafting BDS (Before Devaney & Spags) has been terrible with the exception of 2008.
    Well, actually Devaney was responsible for 2008 as well.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #3
    RockinRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    2009 was a solid draft.

  4. #4
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Is it any wonder?

    2008 wasn't a solid draft?

  5. #5
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    2008 wasn't a solid draft?
    I suspect that class is going to see some decent attrition by the time the 2010 final roster is established....which should not happen two years removed from "solid" drafts. It may be a passable draft, but I wouldn't classify it as solid by any means.

  6. #6
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Well Chris Long, Avery, Greco, Chamberlain, and Vobora should be relatively safe. Chamberlain due more to our lack of depth at LB. Greco is a decent lineman and Avery and Long has nowhere to go but up. King looks to have a spot on the roster but will have more competition than a Grant will, so whether or not he makes the team is in the air.

    So yes, I'd have to say it was solid as we're getting production from all of our late round picks minus 1 and 2008 mr irrelevant is vying for a starting line-backing spot. Perhaps you confused "solid" with "good" or your harder on your "solid" grades than I am.

  7. #7
    39thebeast's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Chris Chamberlin was probably our best special teamer last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe DeVaney had full control in 2008. Regardless I think from that draft and 2009's draft the guys on the bubble are Keenan Burton, Justin King, and Brooks foster which is pretty good when you compare that to the past.

  8. #8
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Well Chris Long, Avery, Greco, Chamberlain, and Vobora should be relatively safe. Chamberlain due more to our lack of depth at LB. Greco is a decent lineman and Avery and Long has nowhere to go but up. King looks to have a spot on the roster but will have more competition than a Grant will, so whether or not he makes the team is in the air.

    So yes, I'd have to say it was solid as we're getting production from all of our late round picks minus 1 and 2008 mr irrelevant is vying for a starting line-backing spot. Perhaps you confused "solid" with "good" or your harder on your "solid" grades than I am.
    I define solid as good. It indicates a large positive and having minimal weaknesses. The 2008 Draft does not fit those criteria.

    And while you bring up Avery, I consider his selection to be a partial whiff by this front office; we redo that draft with knowledge about how the last two years played out, and we're taking DeSean Jackson in that spot.

  9. #9
    Flippin' Ram's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I define solid as good. It indicates a large positive and having minimal weaknesses. The 2008 Draft does not fit those criteria.

    And while you bring up Avery, I consider his selection to be a partial whiff by this front office; we redo that draft with knowledge about how the last two years played out, and we're taking DeSean Jackson in that spot.
    Even though we could of picked up DeSean Jackson, it'd seem that he'd bring similar average/above avg. results for us. The Eagles are a talent-laden team with an experienced coaching staff and that's why he was able to flourish easily..

  10. #10
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I define solid as good. It indicates a large positive and having minimal weaknesses. The 2008 Draft does not fit those criteria.

    And while you bring up Avery, I consider his selection to be a partial whiff by this front office; we redo that draft with knowledge about how the last two years played out, and we're taking DeSean Jackson in that spot.
    Desean Jackson's character issues coming out of college didn't warrant the pick at the time plain and simple. You also assume Jackson would have been as effective playing for us as he is with the pass happy Eagles and with Mcnabb and a better line. You don't think Avery would be a lot better with the Eagles? I'm sure we'd do a ton of things over if we could redo any draft like picking Colston with our 7th rounder...

    Oh yeah, how'd you like Jackson badmouthing McNabb today?

    "Whiffs" are made by an inability to forsee the future and calling Avery a whiff after a good rookie season and a decent sophmore season (poor offensive line protection, poor Qb play, and reluctant pass play calling are devastating to stats) is a stretch...Give him more than 2 years. Guy also battled injuries all season while trying to perform as a team's number one receiver (a role he isn't suited for and wasn't drafted for) with little to no alternate options in the passing game for the crappy QB to throw to.
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -05-12-2010 at 01:13 AM.

  11. #11
    SanDog's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    It's hard to hold 2008 against Billy. He'd been onboard for a short time, and I doubt he was the alpha dog in the draft room with Linehan and Ziggy running rampant. Plus, look at all the work that goes into that draft in terms of preparation, it's what... a five or six month effort? Maybe more?

    I'm going to judge him on 2009 and later, personally.

  12. #12
    RockinRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I define solid as good. It indicates a large positive and having minimal weaknesses. The 2008 Draft does not fit those criteria.
    The 2008 draft may not be solid, but it is a lot better than average. And if those players contribute this year, then it very well may be solid.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    And while you bring up Avery, I consider his selection to be a partial whiff by this front office; we redo that draft with knowledge about how the last two years played out, and we're taking DeSean Jackson in that spot.
    Wouldn't we all wish we could re-do drafts eh?...


    But that's not going to happen. Maybe Donnie Avery to us, felt better than Desean Jackson? Maybe we had him ranked higher?

    And there are multiple circumstances you have to consider. One, the situation here vs. the one Jackson has in Philly.

    Two, the coaching, and the players around him.



    I bet you, if Donnie Avery was on the Eagles instead of DJ, he would be a burner, and would have a better career up to this point compared to the one he has with us.

  13. #13
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Two years removed and all but one player still on the roster.

    I guess maybe opinions vary, but that sounds pretty solid to me.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #14
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    A lot of you seem to be forgetting Avery's biggest problem, which is the whole "drops (an unpleasant number of) passes" thing. That is not a system issue. That is not a roster issue. That is a Donnie Avery issue, plain and simple.

    And no, we could anticipate that Avery was not actually the best wideout in the draft fairly readily. Just about everyone else had him lurking outside of the top 5 of wideouts in the draft.

  15. #15
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Is it any wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    And no, we could anticipate that Avery was not actually the best wideout in the draft fairly readily. Just about everyone else had him lurking outside of the top 5 of wideouts in the draft.
    That was a tough year for WRs. Some who were "rated above" Avery have done far less than he has (i.e. Limas Sweed, Devin Thomas). Apart from Jackson and Eddie Royal (who had a better rookie year than second year) Avery has been as productive as any WR taken in that draft.

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