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Thread: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

  1. #46
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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    I can agree with both side of this debate to me both have valid points. But to try and downplay the defense of the Hawks in the SB game is silly.
    This was not directed at you, just reading some of the comments seems a gloss over how dominating that defense was in that game and all year. I think you can see some if you read through the thread.

    We did not play ball control in that game or keep away we shut them down.

    Seattle (7-1) extended the best start in franchise history despite gaining just 135 yards, with 80 coming on Wilson's second TD pass to Golden Tate. It was the third-fewest yards in a victory for the Seahawks, and their seven first downs were the fewest in a win in franchise history.
    "
    We were very fortunate," Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. "Under the circumstances with a new quarterback, they did a great job. We just couldn't get going on offense. Fortunately, the defense hung together and gave us a chance to win the game."
    Clemens finished with 158 yards passing in place of the injured Sam Bradford, but he also threw two interceptions. Zac Stacy ran for a career-high 134 yards to pace the Rams (3-5).
    We also gave them two extra possession.

    I thought it was a great defensive game by the Rams.
    Last edited by Rambos; -02-03-2014 at 04:17 PM.


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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    The inability to convert 3rd down was a greater factor than the ability of the Rams to run the ball.
    If the argument is that the Rams must draft an OT so they can run the ball, pointing out that they won with the current roster which included 4 of 5 starters as free agents isn't supporting the argument.
    The debate is not between FA OL and drafting OL.

    The point is to get good OL, and the draft is a cost-effective way of doing so.

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    We did not play ball control in that game or keep away we shut them down.
    The Rams ran the ball 37 times and held it for 38+ minues. If that is not "ball control" or "keep away," I don't know what is.

    I thought it was a great defensive game by the Rams.
    So did I. But if the the Rams were not able to run the ball, the defense may have had to have held up for 60+ plays, rather than 40.
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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    The Rams ran the ball 37 times and held it for 38+ minues. If that is not "ball control" or "keep away," I don't know what is.



    So did I. But if the the Rams were not able to run the ball, the defense may have had to have held up for 60+ plays, rather than 40.
    They had one play that went 80 yards and the rest went for 55 yards we shut them down. To your point yeah maybe... but we shut them down.

    Agree to disagree Counselor.

    The great debate of how to build a team will wage on!

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    The great debate of how to build a team will wage on!
    I'm going to go with "obtain really good players at a cheap price."
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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Its indeed an interesting debate. Certainly the Rams have to remain in the "defense" race and strengthen its offense...chalk that up to a big duh!

    But what do the Rams need to do different then what the 49whinners/Seagulls and now Cards are doing? I seriously doubt the Rams are going to adopt either of those teams play books and I don't think its all about getting more top talent either.

    In prior threads, its been argued its not enough to just be good against your division rivals but the whole league. This pass Super Bowl puts that theory back on the table. Perhaps someone can tell me what the Seagulls did differently against either the 49whinner/Rams games on defense then they did against the Broncos. They kept the ball in front of them, reducing the depth of crossing routes, collapsed either the left or right to stop the run, and got pressure on the QB.

    My suspicions are that the Rams "D" will be much more affective in 2014 with a few more tweaks being made on that side of the ball. But what has me the most concern is how the Rams might attempt to adapt on "O" to gain an edge. Personally I think it a losing subsidization to want to just slug it out on defense and hope for the other to make a mistake.

    More to that point is the NFC-West is ALL a power defense. Granted if the Broncos had a defense to match their offense, this pass Super Bowl might be one of those Monday morning discussion. But we pretty much all agree a reasonable affective offense and a strong defense is an affective combination to win championships

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    RAMS 2014 RECIPE. INGREDIENTS. You will need:

    * Improved OL / offense (preheat all components)
    * Improved defense (use new OC to max potential)

    BALANCE AMOUNTS - KEEP HOT UNTIL PLAYOFFS. Do not overheat (burn).

    Use 3rd burner to keep Special Teams warm.


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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I think that one of the reasons why Seattle's defense was so effective yesterday was that they had absolutely no fear whatsoever of Denver's running game. This allowed their LBs and safeties to play in a short zone and force Denver to put drives together with short passes (Manning had less than 6 yards/attempt).

    By the same token, when we played Seattle in St. Louis this year, we ran the ball very effectively, and that is what kept the game close.

    So, again, to beat a defense like Seattle's, a strong OL is a must.
    I understand your point, but you also make my point in the process.

    "we ran the ball very effectively".....my point exactly.

    And Mathews was nowhere to be found during that game.

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    "Defenses win championships" is an adage, and so is "You build a team from the lines out". Having a strong defense is one way to win, but not the only way. For every Seattle or Baltimore that wins a Super Bowl with a strong defense, there is a Green Bay or a New Orleans that wins one with a strong offense. A teams philosophy for winning can be balanced in any number of ways.

    IMO, the Rams biggest need is to build a solid OL, a line that can protect Bradford, open holes for the running game, and help sustain drives. Not doing so has been an issue for years, so I see nothing foolish about drafting the best offensive lineman available at number 2.
    Perhaps "foolish" is a bit overzealous, but I feel strongly that our defense for the reasons I've already explained, should be the focus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post

    I understand your point, but you also make my point in the process.

    "we ran the ball very effectively".....my point exactly.

    And Mathews was nowhere to be found during that game.
    True... but some (most, perhaps) of the OL who were there won't be next year.
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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    As they say, offense scores you the points, but it is defense that wins you the game!
    Rams 2014 Season!

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    You guys all are discussing the Seahawks game and how we did pretty well against them...
    That is nice but let us harken back to the Niners games and how that defense shredded our OL and destroyed our less than adequite at that time TE and HB secondary blockers! That was horrifying to watch!

    Yes we got better with Zac back and the two injured TE's returning to block better and our O-Line was good for a while but still got devasted by injury. And so did our half backs! So for those games alone I want to really improve our O-Line yes and add some pieces on defense as well like safety and another LB and corner agree we need them. But if we cannot block or protect it will be a long sad season even if we have a killer defense. IMHO-

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I apologize, perhaps my point wasn't clear, so let me try again, even though I suspect your mind is made up and this isn't going to change that.

    You started this thread by saying Seattle's performance in the Super Bowl has convinced you that drafting an OT with the 2nd overall pick is foolish, and that a dominant defense is needed. What's ironic about that is that Seattle actually used a Top 6 pick on an OT in 2010 to shore up their offensive line, and did not establish their dominant defense with high first round picks. They essentially just won a Super Bowl by doing the opposite of what you're suggesting.

    When Pete Carroll took over as head coach as the Seahawks, the first thing he did in the draft in 2010 was spend a Top 6 pick on an OT, suggesting he would not agree that such a move was completely foolish. He then turned around and spent another first round pick on an OL the following year in James Carpenter.

    To get back to the point from my previous response, the Seahawks team that won the Super Bowl last night started more first round picks on their five-man offensive line than they did on their entire eleven-man defense.

    Even if you don't consider Walter Thurmond as a starter and instead plug in Bruce Irvin, the fact remains that the majority of Seattle defensive starters from last night were either Day 3 picks or undrafted. In fact, I don't believe the Seattle defensive line features any player that was selected higher than the third round. How on earth they prove we have to use our top pick this year on defense is beyond me.

    Despite your claim that it would be completely foolish to do so, the Seahawks did spend a top pick on an OT, and they are proof you can build a dominant defense without using top picks to do so, particularly at positions where you're already among the best in the league.
    You make good points Nick and I totally understand what you're saying.

    I just think that we're closer to being dominant on defense, therefore I would complete that unit first.

    But to be clear, by no means am I saying neglect the offense.

    And if you're going to focus on the defense first, why not start with the concensus best defensive player in the draft?

    Some say he plays a position that is our strength, and while that may be true, I simply believe he is an upgrade over Chris Long for half the money. Which IMO, still upgrades our defense as well as sets us up for a better future.

    Add to him a Safety that will allow our CBs to play more aggressively and an OLB that can cover as well as rush the passer if Dunbar doesn't return and I believe we are a Superbowl contender before we even touch the offense in the draft.

    That is, provided we've re-signed our best UFAs and have no setbacks with the guys rehabbing injuries.

    It's that simple for me.
    Last edited by Fortuninerhater; -02-08-2014 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    I understand your point, but you also make my point in the process.

    "we ran the ball very effectively".....my point exactly.

    And Mathews was nowhere to be found during that game.
    I would add that our defense held the Seahawks to 14 points in that game, and Lynch was held to 23 yards rushing.

    Clowney was nowhere to be found during that game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Perhaps "foolish" is a bit overzealous, but I feel strongly that our defense for the reasons I've already explained, should be the focus.
    Our offense was 21st in points per game, 30th in total yards, while the defense was 13th in points allowed, 15th in yards allowed. The way I see it, shoring up the OL does more to improve the team than shoring up the defense.

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    Re: Anybody doubting that DEFENSE wins Championships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    You make good points Nick and I totally understand what you're saying.

    I just think that we're closer to being dominant on defense, therefore I would complete that unit first.
    This is why we should go offense first. We already have good pieces in place on D, and we only need to add depth and a maybe a few pieces in FA. On the O-Line we are probably losing 3 starts and we have a fourth coming off an injury that will probably not be 100% at the start of the season. We have no real depth on the O-Line, so why would we not start building that up now? Improve the talent on offense and add depth on defense. No team wins without at least a decent O-line. If our "dominate" D is always on the field they won't look so dominate.
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