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  1. #1
    Rams4life1's Avatar
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    Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    has a chance to beat out Byrd? I think Linehan just put his spin on this trying to lite a fire under Byrd. No way they cut Byrd and eat his signing bonus.

    I really liked Collins coming out of Notre Dame. He has really good speed and can block.

    If i had my choice, it would be Klopfenstein, Byrd and Collins as my 3 TE's.


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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Unless Collins has an impressive camp and solid showing in the final pre-season games, I think he is gone come opening day.
    JUST WIN ONE FOR THE FANS


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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Jerome Collins. Yes, I think there is a chance for him. In other words,

    2006 Ram TEs: a) Joe Klopfenstein, b or c) Aaron Walker, c or b) Jerome Collins.

    Collins has been around with us two years and even though there is nothing substantial to give him a good measure of credit, I've read that he...

    a. Has made progress in his blocking / receiving skills
    b. May be as hungry as Byrd
    c. Is bigger than Byrd

    May the best man win.

  4. #4
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    There is no chance of any kind that linehan is going to cut byrd. Dont believe everything you read guys, i believe he is motivating byrd as best as he can. Byrd was a 3rd round pick that we traded up to get. We are not going to waive him based on one training camp.

    I fail to see how anyone on this board can have an informed opinion on collins vs. walker. I appreciate that people have their personal preferences based on what they saw in college, but we as fans have no way of knowing what the coaches are seeing in practice and in meetings every day.

    This is one of those times where its good to know what you dont know, ie that the coaches know A LOT more than we do as fans and the coaches, not us, are in the best position to evaluate who the better player is. Neither collins nor wallker played much if at all last year. I dont see how any of us thinks we are expert enough to evaluate the difference.

    Personally, given that i know that klopfenstein and byrd are going to make the roster and that neither of them is known for their blocking, i am in favor of whoever the coaches think is the best blocking tight end. I have no idea which one it is, but i think it makes sense to have one stud short yardage blocker instead of just the three best pass catchers. That being said, i defer to linehan et al on this roster move.

    ramming speed to all

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    Last edited by HUbison; -08-15-2006 at 08:11 AM.


  5. #5
    RealRam's Avatar
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    I ...I fail to see how anyone on this board can have an informed opinion on collins vs. walker. I appreciate that people have their personal preferences based on what they saw in college, but we as fans have no way of knowing what the coaches are seeing in practice and in meetings every day.

    This is one of those times where its good to know what you dont know, ie that the coaches know A LOT more than we do as fans and the coaches, not us, are in the best position to evaluate who the better player is. Neither collins nor wallker played much if at all last year. I dont see how any of us thinks we are expert enough to evaluate the difference.

    Personally, given that i know that klopfenstein and byrd are going to make the roster and that neither of them is known for their blocking, i am in favor of whoever the coaches think is the best blocking tight end. I have no idea which one it is, but i think it makes sense to have one stud short yardage blocker instead of just the three best pass catchers. That being said, i defer to linehan et al on this roster move.
    ______________________________________________________________

    Good morning, GC! :-)

    "Personally, given that I know that Klopfenstein and Byrd are going to make the roster and that neither of them is known for their blocking, I am in favor of whoever the coaches think is the best blocking tight end. I have no idea which one it is, but I think it makes sense to have one stud short yardage blocker instead of just the three best pass catchers. That being said, I defer to Linehan et al on this roster move."

    ??? :x Say what?!? You got me there, my friend.

    I don't think anyone in the entire Clan is claiming to REALLY know as much or more (how funny) than the NFL coaches of our favorite team, begining with Coach Linehan. Interestingly, much of what we discuss in these forums is based on our OWN VIEW, as poor or accurate our NFL vision, knowledge and experience may be. That is the twine that threads the majority of our topics.

    However, often this twine in itself is made of, and based on, what those experts have spoken, indeed, the Rams coaches themselves (see Coach Linehan's words and Nic Wagoner's opinios below as they comment on our current TEs).

    What we see, read or imagine is fair play and this is the combination that communicates truth or falsity.

    Even regarding the Rams TEs to appear in this year's roster.


    ______________________________________________________________

    From Rams HC Scott Linehan, Aug. 13 2006

    “Walker’s been really consistent,” coach Scott Linehan said. “He’s blocked well and been a more-than-adequate pass receiver when called upon. He’s protected the passer. That’s really what a tight end has got to do.”

    For the time being, it appears that Klopfenstein and Walker have set themselves apart from the rest of the tight ends, but Linehan likes what he sees from some of the rest of the talent on the roster, including Jerome Collins.

    “I think Jerome has done a nice job as well,” Linehan said. “Right now, we are looking at Joe and Aaron as the one and two and then Collins and Byrd right now are battling for that third spot. It’s still real early just like it is for all the positions. The tight end spot, I’m going to keep a close eye on.”

    Of course, Byrd is still competing for a spot much like the rest of the roster, but it’s important to remember that he doesn’t necessarily play the same position as Klopfenstein even though they are both technically tight ends.

    In the Rams’ offense, Byrd plays what Linehan calls an “F” tight end. Klopfenstein is more of a “Y” tight end. The difference is pretty basic.

    Byrd is more of a “move” player, meaning he will go in motion and play predominantly off the line of scrimmage. Klopfenstein’s position spends most of its time on the line of scrimmage. Still, Byrd has work to do to get where Linehan wants him to be.

    “Some of it has to do with how the other two were performing leading up to the game,” Linehan said. “They deserved a few more snaps and have taken advantage of it, but it’s very early in that battle. Certainly, Dominique needs to progress and improve there to deserve the reps he needs. He’ll get a few more looks this week in practice. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play quite a bit more in this next game.”

    Byrd has shown an ability to make big catches down the field in training camp, but his blocking is the main issue he must improve on in time for the game against Houston on Aug. 19.

    “He has great ball skills,” Linehan said. “He has good enough size to play on the line at tight end. He knows that he has to be better on the blocking part, that’s why we spend more time in that area. He has to be a guy that can do both. His style is more of an off the line tight end, but you don’t start out there at that slot and move in. You have to start in and move out. That’s what we are establishing with him right now.”
    [Dez, Mods, you're probably already aware but just in case ... sometimes the 'SAVE' function on the EDIT window does not work.]

    EDITED portion, post #5:
    However, often this twine in itself is made of, and based on, what those experts have spoken, indeed, the Rams coaches themselves (see Coach Linehan's words and Nic Wagoner's opinios below as they comment on our current TEs).

    What we see, read or imagine is fair play; this is the combination that communicates truth or falsity.
    Last edited by Nick; -08-15-2006 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Merging back to back posts

  6. #6
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    we could always keep 4 TE's since we will be using them a lot more than in the past

  7. #7
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam
    [Dez, Mods, you're probably already aware but just in case ... sometimes the 'SAVE' function on the EDIT window does not work.]
    Sometimes it doesn't in the Quick Edit feature (aka when you just hit the edit button), but if you click Go Advanced instead of Save then it'll take you into the main editing window and you can save from there.
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  8. #8
    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel
    That being said, i defer to linehan et al on this roster move.
    It is way early in the season to make final judgments. Linehan is the coach and he gets to make the call. But, drafting Byrd was the first stupid thing he did, a la Couch etc. Casts him in a bad light. It was a dufus mistake.

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    RAMarkable is offline Registered User
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by coy bacon
    It is way early in the season to make final judgments. Linehan is the coach and he gets to make the call. But, drafting Byrd was the first stupid thing he did, a la Couch etc. Casts him in a bad light. It was a dufus mistake.
    Actually I kinda agree with Coy's assessment of the drafting of Byrd, especially since Gabe Watson (DT from Michigan) was available at that point in the draft. Another factor to consider is that Collins' background as a DE at Notre Dame may come in handy on special teams and I don't believe that this Byrd has ever flown on punt and kick coverage. Well we'll soon see.

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  10. #10
    ZigZagRam's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    t is way early in the season to make final judgments. Linehan is the coach and he gets to make the call. But, drafting Byrd was the first stupid thing he did, a la Couch etc. Casts him in a bad light. It was a dufus mistake.
    Drafting one of the best TE's in college in the 3rd round was like drafting a QB and trying to make him a WR?

    Are you basing this on one training camp or what?

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    coy bacon is offline Registered User
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZigZagRam
    Drafting one of the best TE's in college in the 3rd round was like drafting a QB and trying to make him a WR?
    Are you basing this on one training camp or what?
    I'm saying that it was a wasted pick. We had already spent a higher draft pick for a TE, we didn't need another high pick for another TE, when we could have drafted a different position. The draft experts on the board can answer who else was available for our needs at the time.

    And, wasn't Byrd damaged goods? Didn't he have a knee operation or something? Maybe its better, maybe it isn't. But that is another reason not to take a chance on an unneeded guy.

    Finally, we see that guys with more experience are looking better than Byrd at this stage. Of course that's not surprizing. But if we're going to have to break in one TE, wouldn't we want to have an experienced guy to back him up, instead of a non-proven rookie? How much experience are 2 rookie TEs going to get during their first year anyway?

    As I think about it, something stinks here with the pick. Either it was stupidity or ego behind the pick of Byrd. Somebody had to have their way I guess. I can't say that it was all on Linehan who made that pick. Maybe someone high up had the hots for Byrd and forced the pick. But, Linehan gets the blame.

    Ziggy does make a good point: it is very early. Maybe Byrd turns out to be the next K. Winslow or D. Clarke, or? and Klop turns out to be a bust. Either way, using 2 high pics for a TE position was dufus.

  12. #12
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMarkable
    Actually I kinda agree with Coy's assessment of the drafting of Byrd, especially since Gabe Watson (DT from Michigan) was available at that point in the draft.
    We'd just spent a third round pick on Wroten, we weren't drafting another third round DT.


    Quote Originally Posted by coy bacon
    I'm saying that it was a wasted pick. We had already spent a higher draft pick for a TE, we didn't need another high pick for another TE, when we could have drafted a different position. The draft experts on the board can answer who else was available for our needs at the time.
    So my question then becomes, would you have not traded Manu? Because after trading Brandon, we needed someone to fill that second tight end spot besides practice squad free agents of whom the staff couldn't have counted on filling the void at that point in the year. So it's either not trade Manu, draft Byrd in the third, or draft a tight end on day two. Which would you have preferred?


    Quote Originally Posted by coy bacon
    And, wasn't Byrd damaged goods? Didn't he have a knee operation or something? Maybe its better, maybe it isn't. But that is another reason not to take a chance on an unneeded guy.
    Tore just about every lligaments in his left knee late in 2003, require surgery. Fractured his right kneecap summer of 2004, missed four games. Turf toe surgery in 2005. Clean bill of health he is not, and that's been one of my criticisms of him as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by coy bacon
    Finally, we see that guys with more experience are looking better than Byrd at this stage. Of course that's not surprizing. But if we're going to have to break in one TE, wouldn't we want to have an experienced guy to back him up, instead of a non-proven rookie? How much experience are 2 rookie TEs going to get during their first year anyway?
    One, you can't seriously be suggesting that the front office should have known in April that Byrd would be outplayed by guys like Aaron Walker. Maybe it's not surprising to you, but it certainly couldn't have been predicted back when the Byrd decision was made.

    Two, what experienced veteran tight end available in late April would you have wanted the Rams to sign? The list isn't exactly overflowing with reassuring names of quality veteran talent. The Rams have been saying for a while that even with Klopfenstein and Byrd they'd like to bring in an experienced vet blocking tight end. The best we got was Aaron Walker.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Excuse me for being late and behind on any relevant news but, why or how did we lose TE Roland Williams? I missed the event. :-(

    PS: Nick, thanks for the tip on the Edit / Save situation!

  14. #14
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    He signed a one year deal for 2005; Rams did not resign him.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Anyone here really think J. Collins...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    We'd just spent a third round pick on Wroten, we weren't drafting another third round DT.
    Well, why not? By the same logic we had just spent a 2nd round pick on Klop so why draft Byrd in the third? Actually it made more sense to draft Watson because he plays a different type of DT in that he is more of the run-stopper than Wroten who is more of the penetrator type. This is even of greater significance due to the loss of Pickett. Now all we have backing up Kennedy is an aging Fisk and he certainly won't be the answer in the future.
    BTW I can't help but believe that if we had taken Watson in the 3rd, Byrd would have in all likelihood have been there in the 4th round where he belonged. The question that begs to be asked is would the Rams have taken Byrd or Adebanaju? Hmmm...dilemma, dilemma.

    WHAT SAY YE?
    Last edited by RAMarkable; -08-16-2006 at 01:56 PM.

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