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  1. #61
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    [QUOTE=atcchris]Not by my numbers. In Green Bay's case, they're going to the playoffs as a legitimate team. In the Giants case, Warner has fewer picks per game and fewer picks per attempt. In addition to a QB rating that is nearly the same as Bulgers, behind the O-line which we're debating.



    QUOTE]Spin it any way you like. The bottom line is that Bulger has outperformed Warner this year. Now don't get me wrong. I hate that Warner is no longer a Ram. As I've stated on several occasions, Warner is my favorite all-time Ram, no question about it. But he is gone now. And Bulger is now the man behind center. Bulger is one of the best QBs in the NFC this year, whose QB rating is better than all but 3 QBs in the NFC. Now if you can think of a better way to objectively measure a QBs skills, be my guest. But until then, the stats show that Bulger has outperformed Warner this season.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #62
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    And? Last year we led the league in takeaways. We scored 5 times on defense.

    What's yer point?
    You don't actually count our 2003 defense as a top-tier defense, do you?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #63
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Leading the league in takeaways, by quite a few, has to count for something doesn't it? I still don't know what stat determines "the best defense". Is it yards per game? Points per game? It seems to vary depending on which team is being pimped at the time. Points per game seems like the best indicator to me but I don't discount leading the league in turnovers as a measure of eliteness.

    Capitalizing on those turnovers seemed like a bigger issue for the Rams than their rushing defense if you ask me. Rushing defense wasn't good, but the Rams just didn't put up enough points off of those turnovers.

  4. #64
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Personally, I think the best defense should be measured by which allows the fewest points per game, since the aim of the game is to defend your endzone. In that statistic, the Rams ranked middle of the pack last season (17th) and poor this season (25th). For comparison, ranked in this manner, last year's best defense would have been the New England Patriots, and this year's is the Philadelphia Eagles, closely followed by the Jets and Steelers.

  5. #65
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Ignoring all stats for the moment, I think any defense that bails out the offense as many times as ours did last year is a pretty damn good defense.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yodude
    Ignoring all stats for the moment, I think any defense that bails out the offense as many times as ours did last year is a pretty damn good defense.
    The D stepped up when they needed to, and the O stepped up when they needed to. Both had their moments of inefficiency, though.

  7. #67
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    hubison

    You don't actually count our 2003 defense as a top-tier defense, do you?
    I do, actually. Our 2003 defense is what gave us the 12-4 record that year, in addition to Wilkins' play. Read below for more reasoning.

    moklerman

    Capitalizing on those turnovers seemed like a bigger issue for the Rams than their rushing defense if you ask me. Rushing defense wasn't good, but the Rams just didn't put up enough points off of those turnovers.

    Indeed, one would have liked to have seen the Rams make more out of what the defense gave them. As it was, 5 TDs by the defense was a great boon, given that most of those takeaways turned into Wilkins' field goals, if anything.

    hubison

    Personally, I think the best defense should be measured by which allows the fewest points per game, since the aim of the game is to defend your endzone. In that statistic, the Rams ranked middle of the pack last season (17th) and poor this season (25th). For comparison, ranked in this manner, last year's best defense would have been the New England Patriots, and this year's is the Philadelphia Eagles, closely followed by the Jets and Steelers.
    Fewest points per game ignores one very glaring area: GIVEAWAYS. The Golden Child gave away the ball 22 times through Picks. He only threw 22 TDs. For our great lead in the NFL in takeaways, we did NOT lead the league in takeaway/giveaway differential. If a defense is continually put in pressure position, it's going to give up more points, no doubt about it. Our defense attacked and had a heart last year. I'll say it again: The Defense is responsible for our 12-4 record. I'll put the 0-1 in the playoffs squarely on Bulger's homing in on Carolina defensive backs.

    yodude

    Ignoring all stats for the moment, I think any defense that bails out the offense as many times as ours did last year is a pretty damn good defense.
    Exactly.

    nickseiler

    The D stepped up when they needed to, and the O stepped up when they needed to. Both had their moments of inefficiency, though.
    I have said it before, and I'll say it again: Without our defense and Wilkins, no way we go 12-4 last year with Bulger throwing all those picks. I would classify the offense's "moments" as being much longer than the defense's "moments".

  8. #68
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Really, I think it should go without saying that the QB position is important to all teams. A good QB may not win games, but a bad QB will lose them.

    That said, KW should be thankful he is still not in St. Louis. He probably would be faulted about now for not playing injured with the season on the line.

    Rather than asking about MB's importance, is there any doubt that the issue really is the O-line's importance to the QB's success.

  9. #69
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATC
    Our defense attacked and had a heart last year.
    If your position is that we were a better defense last year, then you get no argument from me. We were definitely better last year (subliminal message: fire Marmie). But last year's defense was not elite, by any means. It's not like Bulger's Int. were keeping our defense on the field longer, only 6 defenses played less plays than the Rams did last year. And not all of our giveaways were interceptions. We were 5th last season in fumbles.

    Last year's defense was certainly better than this year, but they weren't great. They created pressure and forced TOs, but they didn't stop the ball real well.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  10. #70
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    nickseiler

    I have said it before, and I'll say it again: Without our defense and Wilkins, no way we go 12-4 last year with Bulger throwing all those picks. I would classify the offense's "moments" as being much longer than the defense's "moments".
    Suit yourself. I don't remember the defense making clutch passes and receptions to get the team down the field in position to win the game when it mattered, but I do remember them allowing a hell of a lot of yards on the ground in the latter half of the season that put this team in some bad positions. I stand by what I said - both units had very clear moments of inefficiency.
    Last edited by Nick; -12-22-2004 at 12:38 PM.

  11. #71
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSeiler
    The D stepped up when they needed to, and the O stepped up when they needed to. Both had their moments of inefficiency, though.
    I won't argue that point, it's a fair assessment. But I think if you look at the season as a whole, the defense saved our bacon much more than the offense did. There was the meltdown against the Panthers in the playoffs, but I put that on the 3 INTs as much or more than on the defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    That said, KW should be thankful he is still not in St. Louis. He probably would be faulted about now for not playing injured with the season on the line.
    Yup...and if he did play hurt...he'd be accused of hurting the team by not taking himself out and lying about the extent of his injuries.
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  12. #72
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    With a QB who didn't throw as many picks as TDs, the D we had last year, and the kicking game with Wilkins, there is no doubt we should have won another Super Bowl.

    We should have won in 2000 and 2001, as well. That adds up to 4 in 5 years. That's a dynasty.

    That's my point.

  13. #73
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Quote Originally Posted by atcchris
    With a QB who didn't throw as many picks as TDs, the D we had last year, and the kicking game with Wilkins, there is no doubt we should have won another Super Bowl.

    We should have won in 2000 and 2001, as well. That adds up to 4 in 5 years. That's a dynasty.

    That's my point.
    It takes more than putting the pieces in place. Philadelphia & Indianapolis have had just as much talent as we have over the past 5 seasons and they have nothing to show for it. At least we've been to the SB twice and won one. They can't even say that. The postseason is its own creation. Few teams have had as much regular season success over the past decade as the Chiefs, yet in the past 14 seasons and 8 postseason appearance they were one-and-done in 6 of them.

    It takes more than having the best components. You have to be the best every single week of the postseason. In 2000 & 2001, we took off a week. Who's fault? I don't know, but that's just football. We weren't entitled to win just because our offense was the best. The team that plays best on that day is the one who wins and we didn't. That's my point.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  14. #74
    sbramfan is offline Registered User
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    Remind me, what does "defense" have to do with this thread? This thread is supposed to be about Bulger's importance to this team.
    notice how this statement was not made?

    Only when someone brings up Warner does the original thread topic become an issue.

    Let's talk more about how important Marc Bulger is to this 6-8 team.

  15. #75
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    Re: Anyone want to question Bulger's importance to this team?

    HUBison
    It takes more than putting the pieces in place. Philadelphia & Indianapolis have had just as much talent as we have over the past 5 seasons and they have nothing to show for it. At least we've been to the SB twice and won one. They can't even say that. The postseason is its own creation. Few teams have had as much regular season success over the past decade as the Chiefs, yet in the past 14 seasons and 8 postseason appearance they were one-and-done in 6 of them.
    I'll give you Indy. They're a case study in wasted talent. The Chiefs.. not as much. Neither Philly.

    Nevertheless, my statement remains regarding the Rams. We should have won 4-5. There are reasons why we didn't. Many of the reasons have to do with Martz.

    sbramfan

    Quote:
    Remind me, what does "defense" have to do with this thread? This thread is supposed to be about Bulger's importance to this team.

    notice how this statement was not made?

    Only when someone brings up Warner does the original thread topic become an issue.

    Let's talk more about how important Marc Bulger is to this 6-8 team.
    Indeed! Pretty hard to write "the defense" out of Rams' history.. lol.

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