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  1. #1
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I am perplexed by the discussion of the haslett system in the context of archuletas contract situation. Frankly, i dont think that the system is really relevant and here is why. This all comes down to allocation of cap dollars.

    I have no doubt that if the haslett system means that arch will be up in the box more playing run support, he has a better chance to be successful. However, no matter what system arch plays, his pass coverage skills are downright lousy and they are not improving. In addition, i see no reason to believe that his physical condition will improve over time. It may not get worse (although the back scares me to death) but no player at that position gets physically healthier over time.

    Thus, it comes down to money. To pay arch frontline safety money for him to play in a system where he is playing the run but not much against the pass makes no sense to me because in effect, he is not an all around player at his position. He is really a role player, plays the run, not the pass. THus, he is worth less cap dollars to us if we need to pay another guy to play in passing situations at that position.

    I have always liked arch and am prepared to sign him for the right money. I just think the money has to be very reasonable and i believe that someone will overpay him. I just dont see how any system is going to improve his lousy pass coverage skills at this point, and therefore, i dont see him as an every down guy given his coverage liabiity. As an aside, i dont see him as a superstar run stopper either. He is a good, but by no means great tackler. Plenty of whiffs.

    ramming speed to all

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  2. #2
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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    Could not have said it better "GC" I completely agree with ya , I like him as well but he as a lot of draw backs that we have seen over the years... Maybe with new coaching things might change ??? He has made some great plays in the past just not consistent , I'd try him for another year...
    Last edited by OldRamsfan; -02-17-2006 at 11:26 AM.

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    GC I typically agree with most of what you say. (As they say in talk radio) This time I think you are leaving out a few intangibles.

    I think that Arch, if used as a run stuffing strong safety, can be the one of the best in the league. He never has been a true safety. He played linebacker in college and is still basically a linebacker playing safety. However,I do think his abilty to bring the big hit that energizes an entire defense outweighs his limitations in pass coverage. He was not in a system which allowed him to do this under smarmie.

    I think good coaching requires the coach modify his system to the talent, not the other way around. I think the Rams def. talent is more suited to an attack defense. I think Arch willl have a huge year. Pay the man just over market value to keep him to stay.

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    Unless the Rams sign him quickly, I think the market will overpay for him. He's received way more press than his play merits (I'll leave it to others to answer the question of why that it), and I think there will be suiters who will overlook his flaws.

    If the Rams do sign him, I think that would make Michael Huff a real draft priority. If you are going to have Arch play an attacking role from the SS spot, you will need to have a really good "center fielder" at the FS spot.

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    Michael Huff Rocks!!!

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    DenverRam, how are you measuring market value. Are you measuring it for guys that play the run but not the pass or for all around safeties? Market value for a safety or any other position for that matter is a function of skill set. For example, market value for all running backs isnt the same. There is a market value for a third down back that is different than a market value for a starter or full time back. In archs case, i am not suggesting that his lousy pass coverage skills mean that we shouldnt sign him, only that those skills or lack thereof need to be incorporated into the decision as to what constitutes market value.

    in short, archuleta is no closer to being the next john lynch than the nutcracker is to being the next warren sapp. big hits are great i agree, but reliability is critical and i see many misses from archuleta which are very hard for me to overlook and have nothing to do with scheme. The scheme may not make the best use of his talents and i am certainly not defending marmie, but when the ball carrier is in front of you, you have to make the tackle and i dont think archuleta does that with the same kind of frequency as the top notch safeties.

    I agree 100% his is really a linebacker, but his nfl position is safety. All the more reason that coaching isnt going to ever give him safety type coverage skills and he wont ever be big enough to be a real linebacker. Excellent role player on a good defense if healthy, but all a function of his cap price to me.

    ramming speed to all

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    GC I want to compliment you on your well thought out presentation. IMO what Arch was in the past and has the potential to return to is a top 15 strong safety in the league. HE will never be Roy Williams or John Lynch but he can be an impact player in a scheme which utilizes his skill set to maximize his value. I do not think that he should be paid as a franchise safety. He will never be that good. But if he is partnered with a top fight free safety he will be effective.

    I do think we should pay him as a good safety...not a top flight safety.

    I think that the problems on our entire team last year primarily came down to attitude and preparation to play. Arch is not a problem in either of these areas. We have to many other pressing needs to try an find a new SS keep the one we have and use him correctly

    :clanram:

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I agree with a lot of what you've said, GC.

    You know where I think would be a good fit for Arch? Baltimore and their 46 defense. You've got Ed Reed playing the deep safety role, and Archuleta would be a big upgrade over Will Demps as the close-to-the-line SS with minimal coverage responsibilities.

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I'm a huge Arch fan. I bought his jersey before he ever played a down for the Rams.

    But you're either part of the problem, or part of the solution. If I had to gamble, I'd say he's part of the problem.

    He is a lot more "Coady" than he is "Polamalu".

    Signing Mediocre players will just lead to mediocrity.

    I hope we upgrade his position. Maybe Carter could be better someday. I don't know the answer, I just know that our safeties are bottom 5 in the NFL. Only shot Arch has at looking better next year is if the talent around him gets better, and that's not saying alot for him.

  10. #10
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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    What exactly is the Haslett system?
    RamsFan16

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I agree with virtually everything posted so far about Arch.

    The question then must be:-

    "What have they seen to make them want to get him back in here?"

    I'm stumped because I think there's some good options in the draft and we have some young guys who need exposure.

  12. #12
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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I would have to assume that Haslett, whom I believe is known for an aggressive defensive scheme, likes what Archuleta brings to the table as a blitzing safety. But I think in order to command top free agent money, you've got to bring more to the table than just skills in one aspect of the game. In Arch's case, that's run defense. But his pass defense leaves a lot to be desired, and I don't think you can justify paying a lot of money to a guy who doesn't give you at least a good overall package. In today's NFL, you have to have a guy back there who can both support the run and defend the pass.

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I agree 100% couldnt have said it better myself......so I wont attempt to.
    There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

  14. #14
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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    I agree Arch will be overpaid in FA somewhere and I too just don't see what the coaches have seen in Arch???interesting!!

    steve:clanram:
    "The breakfast Club"

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    Re: Arch and the "Haslett system"

    What you guys dont realize is that Arch is Roy Williams but with less of a big hit and a lil more speed. Roy Williams is horrible in passs coverage just like Arch is but he also plays the run very well. If Arch had the type of players around him that Roy had I could really see them flip floping. Roy Williams is extremly overrated.

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