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  1. #16
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
    r8rh8rmike is offline Superbowl MVP
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    For what it's worth, here is an interesting take from an ex-LA Ram fan that pretty much sums up what a lot of fans felt about Georgia. This is also interesting in that it is from a Whiner board thread from '02 that had some posts by one txramsfan.



    My father became a Rams season ticket holder in 1966, but had attended nearly every home game since his USC days (he worked as an usher at the Coliseum 1947-49). I began going to games with him regularly at the age of 7 (1969, Roman Gabriel's MVP year).

    We understood the move to Anaheim -- basically the same pig-headed Coliseum Commission as always. Our 50-yard-line seats became 20-yard-line seats (albeit in the front row of the first level, practically on top of the field!) We supported them in good times and bad, bud we always had a bad feeling about "Georgia," especially after John Shaw was brought aboard.

    I lost my mother to cancer the morning of January 14, 1990, the day Jim Everett took the phantom fall in the NFC Championship against S.F. The team was never the same after that. Georgia, who hailed from St. Louis, where she began her career as a chorus girl, began to dream out loud of taking "my team" to her hometown (I know, her calling the Rams "my team" made every longtime Ram fan cringe).

    Beginning in 1991, the Rams began cutting salaries and rarely, if ever, pursuing important free agents. The team, of course, began to perform poorly, and the boos began to rise at Anaheim. John Robinson went quickly from being kissed by the old hag to being tossed out on his ear. Among the players, only Everett was the object of fans' scorn.

    The overwhelming villains were Georgia Frontiere (whose 7th husband, Dominic, was now in jail from tax fraud) and John Shaw, who will be known from hereon out as "Dr. Evil."

    Of course, they knew damned well what they were doing. Nobody moves a successful team. She began to pine publicly for St. Louis, and we, rightfully, began to mock her in the form of boos at the stadium. Fans even began to put up banners reistering their disgust (which Georgia's G-men quickly pulled down).

    Then, it happened. They left. No one ever called or notified us, the season-ticket holders, of the move. No one, not Georgia, not John Shaw (Carroll Rosenbloom's son, the whiz-kid who helped build the late '70s team, had been canned by Georgia after the old man drowned), EVER contacted us or offered so much as a THANK YOU. I guess Shaw triedtomake some amends right before the 1st St. Louis game by flying four of the watermelon-heads in to attend.

    I spent the first year in shock, hoping that it was a mistake: maybe they'll be so bad, they'll move back?

    But by the opening of the 1996 season, I knew darn well that I and numerous others had been BETRAYED. From then on I vowed that I would NEVER root for this team as long as Georgia owned it.

    So now I even find myself rooting for the Cowboys, ***** and Raiders when they play the Rams. I have nothing against the players. Warner and Faulk are tremendous talents.

    But many of us feel like Baltimore did when the Colts left.

    I hope they go 0-16.


  2. #17
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    I'm not looking for answers, just information. When mentioning Georgia's pivotal role in Rams history I actually consider the move to St. Louis very beneficial for the team and fans. I didn't like it, but I think that the fan base in Los Angeles is somewhat erratic.

    I'm using the Lakers and Dodgers as reference points as well as the changing landscape of professional sports in general from the 80's until now. I can't say for sure whether or not the team would have enjoyed the same kind of support that it received from St. Louis.

    My questions are more related to the actuall history of her involvement of the team in other areas too. I've never really heard her mentioned in a positive light and have adopted that same opinion based on the little bit that I do know.

    Between the movie Major League (woman owner tries to ruin the fan support base by making the team so bad she can move to a new city and receive a lucrative deal in the process) and the HBO series 1st & 10 (woman owner of an LA football team that is full of misfits and never quite wins the big one) I think the stereotype of a woman franchise owner has been assigned to Georgia, in my mind, simply be default. I've always assumed that these movies were heavily influenced by the Rams' situation.

    It's always a matter of opinion when it comes to judging someone, but to me the Rams seem to have been getting progressively better the more control of the team that she relinquishs. Maybe it's just coincidence. That's why I'm requesting any stories that people might have of her.

  3. #18
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    The death of CR was indeed a tragedy and what happened to our Rams after his death was indeed a travesty of what he stood for and the team he built.

    They say if you don't have something nice to say about someone then you shouldn't say anything at all. For me, that is the case with madamn ram. Can't stand to look at her, think about her or talk about her. The sight and thought of her makes me sick to my stomach.


    :ramlogo:

  4. #19
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by adarian_too
    Are fans entitled to a sports identity?
    Well, the only way to ensure that is to start selling franchises to the cities themselves. With the way most cities are run, God help us all if they do.
    Have some fondue, it's delicious.

  5. #20
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Like many others, My dad was a long time season ticket holder and I enjoyed going to the games and there is nothing that can replace the electric atmosphere that accompany those games.

    However after the game was over, after the season ended, it becomes part of the past. The memories of the electric atmosphere fade much quicker then the memory of winning or losing. When I think back on the big games I attended and the Big Games I watched on television, there is one thing that dominates all other memories of that game.

    The dominating memory is winning or losing. Winning and losing seem to have the same longevity at least in my memory banks far more then the roar of the crowd or the electric atmosphere. I think the only time I ever really worried about my own loyalty to the Rams was on the day they opened up in ST. Louis. I didn't know what to expect from myself because I had never been at those crossroads before.

    I was pretty sure that it was all about nothing nevertheless it was in the back of my mind.

    When the Rams took the field, When those Blue and Golds :ramlogo: were rustling about the field, it was over. The doubt I had turned out to be all about nothing after all. In fact I feel closer to the Rams then ever before. I feel closer to the Rams because of websites like this, Ram fans like yourself and the ability to converse with you.

    If your loyalty is to a city more so then it is with a team, then why not spend your Sundays picking up garbage along side of your beloved cities hi-ways instead of watching the Rams?

    Think about it.

  6. #21
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamTime
    If your loyalty is to a city more so then it is with a team, then why not spend your Sundays picking up garbage along side of your beloved cities hi-ways instead of watching the Rams?
    Excellent point, RamTime.

  7. #22
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    I'm not sure I understand how this is an excellent point. Does that mean that the multitude of fans who live in St. Louis shouldn't be rooting for the Rams?

    Geographic location is always a strong denominator in the fan's allegiance to a team. I think the fact that the Rams have midwest and west coast support bases makes them one of the more followed teams in the league.

  8. #23
    RamTime Guest

    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by moklerman
    I'm not sure I understand how this is an excellent point. Does that mean that the multitude of fans who live in St. Louis shouldn't be rooting for the Rams?
    Many fans root geographically. Many others do not.

    This is the way I look at it.
    If you called yourself a die hard Cardinal fan and followed the team and at one time believed that you could never root for any other team except the Cardinals then quite frankly no. No you should not be rooting for the Rams.

    At least not as if the Rams are the only team you will ever follow and ever be loyal to. You should be loyal to the Cardinals; you should be following your Cardinals. Otherwise youíre not really a Cardinal fan or a Rams fan or any team fan, you are a St. Louis fan regardless of what team calls it home.

    Now letís extend the metaphor to Los Angeles. If you called yourself a die hard rams fan and you hate them for leaving and your goal is to see them lose while you await the expansion team that is going to make the Rams leaving all better then you were never really a Rams fan. You were a Los Angeles fan.

    I do not owe Los Angeles a thing and I do not owe St. Louis a thing. I do appreciate the way St. Louis has supported the Rams however if the Rams pack up and move to say. The moon then I will be a moon rams fan.

    Look at it this way. What about when a fan moves away from the team he loves? Does he root for the local or closest team to his new proximity or does he continue rooting for the original team he left behind? If I had done that when I moved from Southern California then I would be a whiner fan right now.

    In sum, Geographic fans feel that the team is expendable where as the city is not. Of all the head aches the Rams have cost you, compare those to the heart aches and head aches the city has cost you. How many times has the city you lived in surprised you with say a check in the mail that you were not expecting? Hmmm thought so. How many times youíre your water bill been higher then expected? Hmmm thought so. How many times have you run into road construction compliments of the city when you were already late? Hmmm thought so. How many times have you complained about something the city has done or is about to do? Hmmm thought so. Sure the Rams cause me heart aches and head aches. The difference is, it is my choice. No one is forcing me to watch the Rams and Martz chisel away at the core of the team, make idiot play calls, lose a superbowl that they should have won, get rid of my favorite players and replace them with questionable ones. No one is forcing me to watch this team come unraveled but I want to see what goes on. So when it comes to sports entertainment I will choose what makes me happy and I will be loyal to that entity. I will not allow a city to dictate my likes and dislikes.

    So which way is the right way to root? Geographically or by the laundry the team wears and the name they play under? There is no correct answer to this question (unless of course you are running for office) however when the subject comes up and your asked what kind of football fan you are then you need to understand that there is a difference between a Los Angeles fan and a Rams fan. There is a difference between a St. Louis fan and a Rams fan. I am a Rams fan and that is how I express it when asked. If a team moved to Sacramento CA. or Sacramento was awarded an expansion team, I would be happy. I would be elated. The first thing I would check on would be the division they play in and I would pray that division would be the NFC west. I will let you figure out why. If one were to take a look at history they would notice that history has not lost track of the Rams accomplishments further emphasizing that it is still the same football team. History says the Rams are the Rams. When they print the record books they do not separate the Los Angeles Rams from the St. Louis Rams as if they were two different teams.

  9. #24
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Here's one aspect that no one has touched yet, what about the business side of the deal? You can't just look at Pro sports and technically call it just a sport. It's a business first and foremost. Sorry to bust the bubble of some of you, but when it costs me 8 bucks a warm beer, 5 bucks a stale hot dog, 20 bucks to park, and I'm not surprised that my bathroom breaks aren't sponsored by someone, I tend to realize that it's more of a business than a sport.

    The Rams, for whatever reason, were losing money right and left in L.A. Now, they aren't. Is that St. Louis and the St. Louis fan based fault?

    Nope. Get over it.

  10. #25
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    If your loyalty is to a city more so then it is with a team, then why not spend your Sundays picking up garbage along side of your beloved cities hi-ways instead of watching the Rams?
    I think loyalty is a subjective thing. If you want to follow a team from city to city, I see no problem with that. If you want to be a fan of your cities team, I see no problem with that either. If you want to do both, no problem. The great thing about sports is you can do anything you want as far as who you like, don't like, or are indifferent about. There are no rules.

  11. #26
    xfactor28 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Georgia has little to do with the personnell and coaching decisions, I have no problems with her and quite frankly think she is a good to great owner.

  12. #27
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    I think I may be imagining a different hypothetical. I'm considering why a fan would "start" supporting a team. In that case, geography is an obvious reason. Family, friends and co-workers can also influence the decision but I think geography is the big one.

    Now, once a person has established their loyalty, i.e. all of us on the west coast, I don't see changing loyalties because the team moves. Especially in this day and age of NFL Sunday Ticket.

    I do see how people could feel ultimately betrayed by a team moving. Cleveland, Baltimore and St.Louis fans all had reason to sever ties to their relocating teams. If you want to view it as a business move, why would fans of these cities continue to support the team and owner that must have felt were better than the city it was leaving?

    In the long run, I think the geography is the strongest tie that a team has to it's fans. Look at the success the Rams, Colts, Ravens, Browns, Titans and Texans have had since moving/expansion. I think the cities that have gotten a second chance have adopted their new teams with a passion and pride that is probably stronger than their original support of their previous team. They've realized what a horrible loss it was to lose "their" team.

    Unless you're ashamed of where you're from I think that most fans have a since of personal pride when it comes to sports teams. The team is a part of the community. A lot, if not most people will gravitate toward the commradery that goes along with supporting the local team. I remember when the Lakers were going for their 3rd title in a row a couple of years ago. So many people in town were proudly displaying their Laker gear. Laker flags were flying high on car windows, etc. I'm not even in L.A. (about 1 hour North) but people wanted to be a part of the electricity and fan base. "That's OUR team in the finals".

    Geography will bring in fans who don't even care about sports in general. My mom of all people, who has not interest in sports AT ALL, was asking me how the Lakers were doing and trying to figure out how this crazy game was played. She wasn't a front runner or band wagoner, she just wanted to be a part of all the excitement. Now, I agree that she's not going to be considered a "true fan" but I think those of us who are, may be out near the lunatic fringe, not the majority.

    Living near L.A. I've seen every side of the loyalty issue when it comes to the Rams. Many felt betrayed and severed ties. Some didn't care that much about football and could care less. Some switched teams and the rest followed the Rams to St. Louis. I fall into the latter category but I often wonder if that's a good thing or not. I have a pretty strong sense of loyalty to the Rams, but I've wondered at what cost? I mean, basically I've proven that no matter what they do I'll still support them. To me, that's just a glutten for punishment.

    So what's more commendable? Someone with a sense of civic pride, supporting the team that's in their community or someone that forks out money to an organization that has only the organization in mind. It doesn't care about the fan, it just wants money.

  13. #28
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by xfactor28
    Georgia has little to do with the personnell and coaching decisions, I have no problems with her and quite frankly think she is a good to great owner.
    I'm curious how long you've been a Rams fan, Xfactor?

  14. #29
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    What I really think is missed in all this is not business, money, loyalty, but the children.

    It's the children that don't understand the business dynamics. It's the children who are hurt when their "heroes" don't stand by them. It's the children who feel "betrayal" most personally. Children don't understand that they are being marketed to yet. All they understand is loss. The loss of their hero, the loss of their team, the loss of what they know as stable and reassuring.

    It's the indifference to the impact that dislocation and betrayal has on the children that makes this issue so vile.

  15. #30
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    Re: Avenger Post this at the Herd Board RE: The last person to see Rosenbloom alive.

    That's where parents come into play. Everyday, parents should show the Charles Barkley "I'm not a role model, you are as a parent" take.

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