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Thread: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I hear you but a lot of Bradford problems are for lack of time. Not all but most. What was everyone saying after the Chiefs game why were we not praising him as much as we seem to be bashing him now. All of this is a complete knee jerk reaction to the Dallas game. Bradford has some work to do but if we can't fix the o-line problem he will end up just like Bulger. If he is getting happy feet already which in the Dallas game he did appear antsy at time then he is on a fast track to be Bulgered out of town.

    This would be a complete shame of course because I think this kid has the talent to be great. He has had to learn now his 3rd offensive system. Maybe these are all just excuses but seems to me that qb's that go through this tend to struggle. I shouldnt have said we cant question Bradford however without protection Bradford will not succeed.
    I think you finally took your blue and gold glasses off.


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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    I hear you but a lot of Bradford problems are for lack of time. Not all but most.
    Well, maybe, maybe not.

    The Rams are going back to a shorter West Coast style passing attack that more closely resembles what Shurmur was running when Sam was a rookie. The point being, Sam doesn't need to be standing back there for a large amount of time before the ball should come out.

    The reality of life in the NFL is that you probably have about four seconds at the most in the pocket to make your throw; that's really not a lot of time. That's why pocket awareness and mobility to sidestep and evade the rush and extend plays even another second or so is so important, IMO.

    Yes, there have been a number of instances where Sam has had less time, but most of his passes? I dunno. I think we also need to consider that, while a lot of that responsibility goes on the offensive line, doesn't some of it also have to go on the quarterback and his internal clock, whether he sees the defense and gets through his progressions quickly, etc?


    Quote Originally Posted by rammiser View Post
    All of this is a complete knee jerk reaction to the Dallas game.
    I don't really think that's true. There were segments from both Jaws and Greg Cosell this offseason that talked about some things Bradford needed to improve on, and pocket presence was mentioned by both of them. After the Colts game, I made a lengthy response saying that, while I thought Sam had a solid day, he had room for improvement. And others were expressing some concerns as well at that time.

    Now, you're right in that this pendulum didn't swing the other way after Kansas City, and we didn't see loads and loads of positive threads about how great Sam looked. That's not fair, but I think to some extent, it's the nature of the internet message board. I do think there were some threads, though, in which Sam got praise for his performance. I've tried to emphasize, even in my criticisms of him from the Dallas game, that there were positive plays in that game and that he also looked outstanding against Kansas City.

    I think the biggest difference between the two games is pressure. I seem to recall Sam even saying after the KC contest that he didn't think he was even touched. Compare that to the pressure he faced in Dallas. I think the point some would make is that it isn't hard to make plays in ideal conditions. What separates the great quarterbacks from the rest of the pack is their ability to stand tough against pressure and adverse conditions and still make plays for their team.

    If Sam can show a consistent ability to do that this year, then he'll definitely earn some praise, at least from me. I agree with you that he has the physical talent to be a great one and from all indications the mental acumen to get him there. If his response to adversity more closely resembles what we saw against Dallas, however, then the fan concern will linger.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well, I did see a Bradford that looked tentative, locked onto receivers, and did not display good pocket mobility or awareness in regards to sensing or avoiding pressure, though I agree with you that it wasn't on every down. Early in the game, he had some pretty nice throws. The strike to Gibson to start with was a good one, and his throw to Kendricks couldn't have been better. But to me, it seemed like once he got hit a few times, the bad habits started showing themselves.
    On his last series (resulting from the successful fake punt), after he had been repeatedly hit in previous series, Bradford stepped up to avoid pressure on his first pass attempt, hitting Richardson with a catchable pass that was dropped. His next attempt, in the face of a blitz, he calmly threw a screen to Richardson for 9 yards. His next attempt, he surveyed the field and found Smith for 6 yards. His next attempt was a hurried pass that missed Pead. His next attempt was a fade to the endzone that was high, but went right through Pettis' hands. Even the Cowboys announcer said the pass was put in the right place and should have been caught. On his next attempt, he threw a strike to McNeill for 4 yards. His next attempt was a short pass that went right through Richardson's hands. His final attempt of the game was a pass to the back of the endzone intended for Smith, who IMO, was tripped.

    I thought Bradford looked solid on that last series, despite the hits he had taken throughout the game. He did not loook tentative to me in any way, and battled to the end. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a vastly different assessment from mine after watching that last series again.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Touching on multiple responses here...
    Would you be interested to find out that, according to NFL.com's play by play, the majority of Bradford's pass attempts against Dallas came on first or second down?
    I saw a LOT of Pead spazzing out on 1st and 2nd downs. Even if so, it doesn't change the fact that they substituted Pead with Jackson on passing plays.

    Kind of like ... telegraphing your play. Like I said, this game was not about evaluating SB.

    But go right on ahead and burn him to the ground if you like, it won't change the fact that he's the starter on an entire team that has a long way to go.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    On his last series (resulting from the successful fake punt), after he had been repeatedly hit in previous series, Bradford stepped up to avoid pressure on his first pass attempt, hitting Richardson with a catchable pass that was dropped. His next attempt, in the face of a blitz, he calmly threw a screen to Richardson for 9 yards. His next attempt, he surveyed the field and found Smith for 6 yards. His next attempt was a hurried pass that missed Pead. His next attempt was a fade to the endzone that was high, but went right through Pettis' hands. Even the Cowboys announcer said the pass was put in the right place and should have been caught. On his next attempt, he threw a strike to McNeill for 4 yards. His next attempt was a short pass that went right through Richardson's hands. His final attempt of the game was a pass to the back of the endzone intended for Smith, who IMO, was tripped.

    I thought Bradford looked solid on that last series, despite the hits he had taken throughout the game. He did not loook tentative to me in any way, and battled to the end. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a vastly different assessment from mine after watching that last series again.
    Mike, you are my hero. A voice of sanity & factually-accurate analysis in a storm of Battered Fan Syndrome noise. Maybe he's too careful with the ball for some people's taste but I don't see happy feet as much as I do the patience & courage to follow Fisher's clear mandate: this is practice; worry less about winning the down at all costs than try to execute the play as drawn.Hate the approach if you want but not the guy who is trying to work within it.Do you really want Sam running like Davis or Clemens in the pre-season? Madness, sez I, and doesn't help the team get better any more than short field goals .Does ending drives by throwing picks help the team ? I'd prefer he didn't take that one sack but he stepped up nicely & deserved better pass pro than Saffold & Pead gave him.

    Of course he's made mistakes but nobody has shown evidence of a preseason pattern of an issue with Sam, just a couple of isolated plays where you can pin all the blame on Bradford. He's still being let down more often than vice versa.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -08-27-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Originally Posted by Nick
    I think the biggest difference between the two games is pressure.
    I think the biggest difference between the two games is SJ vs Pead and Richardson. I ask the question before the game what do people want to see.

    You answered
    Sharp execution, minimal mental mistakes, and no injuries.
    When Richardson goes the wrong way on a flip 90 play, hanging Bradford out to throw the ball across his body on the fly, is not good execution, IMO.

    More then once the rookie backs blew assignments that Marshal pointed out,

    In short there where mental mistakes that caused poor execution IMO.


    r8rh8rmike
    His next attempt was a hurried pass that missed Pead.
    After watching the game again Marshal said he thought Sam was throwing that ball away and he did not want Pead to get creamed if he caught it.

    Mike I just watched the game again and I think I posted that was the worst I have ever seen Sam play. It was not that bad the second time looking at it. For what he was working with, a play made here or there and it would have been a decent night. Example if Pettis catches the back shoulder pass for TD, which it was catch-able.
    Last edited by Rambos; -08-27-2012 at 08:18 PM.

  7. #22
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I thought Bradford looked solid on that last series, despite the hits he had taken throughout the game. He did not loook tentative to me in any way, and battled to the end. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a vastly different assessment from mine after watching that last series again.
    By the time I'd be able to watch the game again, it'll be after the Ravens game and I suspect we'll have new observations to discuss.

    So I'll simply say, I disagree with the statement that Bradford did not look tentative in any way. I arrived at a different conclusion after watching the game, which included pausing plays and rewatching them sometimes multiple times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    But go right on ahead and burn him to the ground if you like, it won't change the fact that he's the starter on an entire team that has a long way to go.
    That's actually not what I'd like, nor do I think most Rams fans are interested in doing that. All I was interested in doing, as it related to your post, was correcting a factually incorrect statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    When Richardson goes the wrong way on a flip 90 play, hanging Bradford out to throw the ball across his body on the fly, is not good execution, IMO.

    More then once the rookie backs blew assignments that Marshal pointed out,

    In short there where mental mistakes that caused poor execution IMO.
    You're right; rookies blew assignments. I've maintained in nearly every detailed post I make about Bradford's play that he's not getting much help and his situation is not ideal.

    But how this absolves Sam of the same accountability that his teammates regularly receive each week is beyond me. It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf. You can only blame other teammates for so long and so often.

    Things are not going catastrophically wrong on every play, to the point that it's impossible for Sam to properly execute, except on the plays where he does. He's fallible, he makes mistakes, sometimes more often than other times. Dallas, IMO, was one of those times. Obviously he wasn't the only one making mistakes, but if we're going to hold other players on this team accountable for their play, Sam should be no different.
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  8. #23
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    By the time I'd be able to watch the game again, it'll be after the Ravens game and I suspect we'll have new observations to discuss.

    So I'll simply say, I disagree with the statement that Bradford did not look tentative in any way. I arrived at a different conclusion after watching the game, which included pausing plays and rewatching them sometimes multiple times.
    Let's be clear. I agree that there were times Bradford looked tentative, but not on that final series he played. On that drive, he was solid, and did not look tentaive in any way to me. From my perspective, that showed he was able to shake off and fight through the earlier problems, and do his job, a job that very easily could have resulted in a TD if Pettis and Richardson didn't have passes go right through their hands.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Let's be clear. I agree that there were times Bradford looked tentative, but not on that final series he played. On that drive, he was solid, and did not look tentaive in any way to me. From my perspective, that showed he was able to shake off and fight through the earlier problems, and do his job, a job that very easily could have resulted in a TD if Pettis and Richardson didn't have passes go right through their hands.
    Fair enough; the only play from the final drive I can specifically recall from memory is the final fourth down attempt because it's the one I rewatched most. No one was open, and I think Sam went to the right receiver with the ball. I think he could have led the guy a bit more, because the ball was to the receiver's back shoulder where coverage was, but it may have been a moot point because it looked as if the receiver was tripped up and perhaps wouldn't have been able to make the catch regardless.

    Regardless, I'm hoping that in this final preseason showing, which Fisher considers the dress rehearsal for his team, Sam comes out and looks like he did in the KC game... which means the OL will have to keep the pressure off like they did in that game as well. I want to see Sam bounce back from Dallas with an excellent showing, one he can build confidence on heading into the regular season. The fact that he'll likely be facing the back-ups for Baltimore, assuming they follow more conventional wisdom with the fourth preseason game, should help.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're right; rookies blew assignments. I've maintained in nearly every detailed post I make about Bradford's play that he's not getting much help and his situation is not ideal.

    But how this absolves Sam of the same accountability that his teammates regularly receive each week is beyond me. It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf. You can only blame other teammates for so long and so often.

    Things are not going catastrophically wrong on every play, to the point that it's impossible for Sam to properly execute, except on the plays where he does. He's fallible, he makes mistakes, sometimes more often than other times. Dallas, IMO, was one of those times. Obviously he wasn't the only one making mistakes, but if we're going to hold other players on this team accountable for their play, Sam should be no different.
    You could have stopped after You're right; JK LOL

    As much as you would like Bradford to be able to play behind a terrible line, with lessor talent at receiver then most top QB. It's not going to happen. He's good but he's not that good. Until he gets some talent around him he will just be average at best. IF Bradford had Holt and Bruce he would be a top 5 QB today. The fact is this is a team sport, it takes more then being a great player to have success. SJ has never been in a playoff game, why do you think that is? Did he not make all the players around him better?

    Bottom line is Sam is good and he will never be great without a few great players around him, just the way it works I'm afraid.
    Last edited by Rambos; -08-28-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    When the protection holds up, and the quarterback has time to make a throw, is he accurate? Bradford had one terrible miss down the left sideline. He had plenty of time to make the connection, but overthrew an all-alone


    I reviewed this pass on DVR wondering why it was such a bad overthrow, and sure enough, the left guard has been pushed into him on a basic bull rush.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    You could have stopped after You're right; JK LOL
    I'll keep that in mind for next time.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    This sounds eerily like the arguement we had a few years back, when Marc Bulger finally got run out of town for stealing.

    Let's hope it just sounds similar.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Obviously he wasn't the only one making mistakes, but if we're going to hold other players on this team accountable for their play, Sam should be no different.
    I'm not trying to absolve him of responsibility, I'm just as not bothered by his play against the Cowboys Saturday. Early on, it was obvious that they were just trying to get something going with Pead, and things really did pick up when they put Richarson in.

    To me, the only thing that actually worries me is his contract. I've always people tend to make too much of the quarterback in what is a very team oriented game and the Rams should have solidified the offensive line and receiver corps before they went after a potential franchise quarterback and ate the cap space associated with that.

    So how about Austin Davis? I still haven't watched up to the point that Clemens was injured and I'm just shocked that they haven't tried him out as a number two for a game. Hope Clemens is alright.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Concern over Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrajag View Post
    So how about Austin Davis?
    He's a keeper and the subject of future battles here at the Clan.
    "The horror"

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