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Thread: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Companies and organizations usually stand by their employees up to a point- until it is not in their best interests to do so. I cannot see Stan Kroenke pulling the trigger until the league concludes its investigation. Stan waited 4 months to fire Spags- what makes anyone think he's going to rush to action here?
    Because waiting until Roger Goodell's shock troops knock on your door isn't healthy.


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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    This may have already been brought up but I am concerned that if Williams stays as D-coordinator that the Rams may be under extra scrutiny by the leauge. Every hard hit especially one where a player is injured will be analized to see if the Rams are stepping over the line.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearsome foursome View Post
    If the hits are not a penalty on the field what difference does it make what the motivation is? Illegal hits I can understand but if is legal under the current rules then I don't see the big deal.
    Allowing players to be rewarded monetarily for hits intending to and resulting in a cart-offs is not something the NFL will ever condone in principle. I see your point about legal vs illegal hits, but for the NFL to openly or even semi-covertly allow a bounty system that by intent is meant to injure a player to the extent that said player is carted off the field, is simply way over the top and out of the question.


    Quote Originally Posted by fearsome foursome View Post
    This may have already been brought up but I am concerned that if Williams stays as D-coordinator that the Rams may be under extra scrutiny by the leauge. Every hard hit especially one where a player is injured will be analized to see if the Rams are stepping over the line.
    Who cares if we are under scrutiny? Take your first quote above .. If there is no infraction as far as the rules of play are concerned, then what's to worry about? If the Rams see fit to stand by Williams throughout this whole procedure (even if it results in a year's suspension) I won't be surprised. Standing by a convincingly contrite Williams sends a message too ..

    Let's face it, the Rams don't exactly have a "bully" reputation at present. Many of us have complained about it in the past, (the perception we are soft) including me. Now we have some coaches that will do their utmost change that (probably league-wide) perception. I don't see how we can have it both ways.

    I think Jeff and Stan K. knew "bountygate" would crop up long ago, and made the decision to bring Williams aboard anyway after weighing all the pros and cons. Unless Williams lied about something to Jeff and Stan in the past, or does so in the future, it is my belief the organization will support him .. The Rams owner and new head coach have the opportunity here to show not only Rams players and coaches alike, but the entire league that they won't throw someone under the bus at the first hint of adversity. Certainly it will be interesting to see how this plays out ..
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Standing by a convincingly contrite Williams sends a message too
    I'd feel better if being contrite happened before he got caught red-handed. Let's face it, he admitted knowing full well that what he was doing was wrong, but continued doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    I think Jeff and Stan K. knew "bountygate" would crop up long ago, and made the decision to bring Williams aboard anyway after weighing all the pros and cons. Unless Williams lied about something to Jeff and Stan in the past, or does so in the future, it is my belief the organization will support him.
    I wonder if the subject of paying the biggest bouties for "knockout" and "cart-off" hits was part of the discussion. Just sayin'.....

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I'd feel better if being contrite happened before he got caught red-handed. Let's face it, he admitted knowing full well that what he was doing was wrong, but continued doing it.
    He screwed up big time .. part of that was the "continuation." It was wrong period. However, being caught in the act is usually what brings one's misdeeds to light and closer scrutiny. Is he truly humbled by this? Hopefully so, and greatly embarrassed to boot. Gregg likely copped to his involvement in this (to Jeff and Stan) prior to signing his contract with the Rams or he'd be fired by now.


    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I wonder if the subject of paying the biggest bounties for "knockout" and "cart-off" hits was part of the discussion. Just sayin'.....
    I'm not sure what you're saying here Mike. My point was simply that if Gregg came completely clean to Jeff and Stan about everything (and remember we don't know what "everything" is at this point), then their collective decision to support him is a private matter at this juncture. Coaches are not always choir boys either, and they can succumb to poor judgment just as players often do. Of course we fans never do right? There are quite possibly coaches out there presently that are not under a microscope who are as guilty or even guiltier than Williams. If so, are they feeling contrite at this moment do you think?

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    I'm not sure what you're saying here Mike. My point was simply that if Gregg came completely clean to Jeff and Stan about everything (and remember we don't know what "everything" is at this point), then their collective decision to support him is a private matter at this juncture.
    I'm saying if he came completely clean, and acknowledged that his program gave payments for hits that resulted in opponents being carted off the field on a stretcher, the decision to hire him was questionable, especially knowing the NFL was investigating.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I'm saying if he came completely clean, and acknowledged that his program gave payments for hits that resulted in opponents being carted off the field on a stretcher, the decision to hire him was questionable, especially knowing the NFL was investigating.
    Mike, you've hit upon a very important aspect of this: if Williams did a bad thing (define as you will), then his hiring was questionable. But he WAS hired. So would the individuals who hired him knowing full well of those questionable circumstances, be of the mindset to fire him?

    I would think not.
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Mike, you've hit upon a very important aspect of this: if Williams did a bad thing (define as you will), then his hiring was questionable. But he WAS hired. So would the individuals who hired him knowing full well of those questionable circumstances, be of the mindset to fire him?

    I would think not.
    You're absolutely right HUb, and the chips will fall where they may. I hope the risk is worth the reward, and that things work out for the team.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    You're absolutely right HUb, and the chips will fall where they may. I hope the risk is worth the reward, and that things work out for the team.
    I'm with you there Mike! However this thing pans out, Stan and Jeff elected to swing rather than strike out looking ..

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    I'm with you there Mike! However this thing pans out, Stan and Jeff elected to swing rather than strike out looking ..
    Let's hope they didn't swing at ball four.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    I think a lot will depend on how much of this is part of the actual culture of football. Williams could end up being a fall guy for the rest of the league if this is a NFL wide way of doing business. I still think Trent Green's injury was a "hit" and not an accident. Personally, I think the NFL needs to draw a line in the sand and Williams should be canned.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Allowing players to be rewarded monetarily for hits intending to and resulting in a cart-offs is not something the NFL will ever condone in principle. I see your point about legal vs illegal hits, but for the NFL to openly or even semi-covertly allow a bounty system that by intent is meant to injure a player to the extent that said player is carted off the field, is simply way over the top and out of the question. Totally agree!




    Who cares if we are under scrutiny? Take your first quote above .. If there is no infraction as far as the rules of play are concerned, then what's to worry about? If the Rams see fit to stand by Williams throughout this whole procedure (even if it results in a year's suspension) I won't be surprised. Standing by a convincingly contrite Williams sends a message too ..

    Let's face it, the Rams don't exactly have a "bully" reputation at present. Many of us have complained about it in the past, (the perception we are soft) including me. Now we have some coaches that will do their utmost change that (probably league-wide) perception. I don't see how we can have it both ways.

    I think Jeff and Stan K. knew "bountygate" would crop up long ago, and made the decision to bring Williams aboard anyway after weighing all the pros and cons. Unless Williams lied about something to Jeff and Stan in the past, or does so in the future, it is my belief the organization will support him .. The Rams owner and new head coach have the opportunity here to show not only Rams players and coaches alike, but the entire league that they won't throw someone under the bus at the first hint of adversity. Certainly it will be interesting to see how this plays out ..
    My concern is how Williams will coach if he is put on probation of some sort. I know that no punishment has been handed down but I have to think that probation of some sort could be a possibility.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Mike, you've hit upon a very important aspect of this: if Williams did a bad thing (define as you will), then his hiring was questionable. But he WAS hired. So would the individuals who hired him knowing full well of those questionable circumstances, be of the mindset to fire him?

    I would think not.
    I'm still not convinced the entire existing front office knew of the investigation or extent of the bounty program. Fisher may have, but I have to think the rest of the management is sufficiently risk-averse at this point that they wouldn't sign off on it if they knew an investigation was in process.

    Actually I think the big question right now is how thin is the ice under Fisher. He may not have the leverage left after this fiasco erupted that some think he has.

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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    I'm still not convinced the entire existing front office knew of the investigation or extent of the bounty program. Fisher may have, but I have to think the rest of the management is sufficiently risk-averse at this point that they wouldn't sign off on it if they knew an investigation was in process.

    Actually I think the big question right now is how thin is the ice under Fisher. He may not have the leverage left after this fiasco erupted that some think he has.
    That's very interesting, Peoria. What gives you the impression this FO is risk-averse?
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    Re: Bernie Bytes: Will Rams fire Williams?

    I am looking at this from a different point of view. To me, this "bounty system" is nothing more than an incentive bonus on steroids. If ANYONE out there honestly thinks that individual players don't try to take out certain opponents, or at least think really hard about it, then you really need to watch some of the games a LOT closer. For instance - in SB XXXVI, watch how many times Marshall was hit - dirty hits - just to try to take him out. Did the Pats coach or players ever get investigated for any of that? No. And some of the hits Marshall took were clearly deliberate attempts to cause injury.

    Did Williams do something wrong? Well, yes and no. It's the language that is the problem here. Had an attorney drafted up the proper language, then it would not even be an issue. As it is, it sounds really bad, so it is bad. Think about it; instead of saying "I will pay a bounty to you if you take so-and-so out of the game" and concequently being investigated, it could have been worded like this..."Performance based incentives are in place for each of our defensive players. This means that if you should perform well on the field, and contribute to the stopping of our opponent's offense, and do so by means that are within the established rules of the NFL, then you shall recieve said incentive. Of course, there is always the possibility of an injury severe enough to cause an opponent to be unable to return to the game, or worse. Should this happen, and it is clearly a legal play, then there shall be no negative concequences. However, should NFL rules be violated during a play that results in an injury, any performance based incetive shall be forfeited for that play."

    This is the NFL, not the "Pansy Intramural Soccer League, where everybody wins!".

    I say keep Williams. If I wanted my Rams to be soft, I would have supported hiring Richard Simmons as our DC.
    MauiRam, VegasRam and NJ Ramsfan1 like this.

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