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Thread: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Sure Martz could have called a different game. IMO, the game he did call should have been good enough. How many times did Faulk get tackled coming out the backfield when he was running routes? How many times were our receivers mugged (and mugged is being polite)? So Billy Bellyache was "brilliant" for spying on us and then instructing his players to play rough and blatantly break the rules because it was the Super Bowl and they might get away with it. Sorry, but I don't buy into calling games one way all year, and then calling a different game in the Super Bowl. We got screwed plain and simple. No I don't think about it every day, but when the subject comes up as it does now and then, the memory of what happened that day still makes my blood boil !!


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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Azul e Oro View Post
    "Reeling" ?! Didn't come across that way to me; maybe somewhere between wry & cynical.

    As always the cover-up was probably worse than the crime.Maybe the taping helped in the SB but I doubt it mattered as much as all the other factors well-enumerated in the posts above. However, the destruction of the tapes is positively Orwellian.

    From Pro Football Zone

    January 30, 2013

    by Paul Jackiewicz

    Former New England Patriots linebacker Willie McGinest responded to former Rams running back Marshall Faulk who claims that he’ll never get over being cheated out of a Super Bowl XXXVI because of Spygate.

    McGinest says if they really cheated, the game would have been a blow out.

    “If . . . we had any extra information, then that game wouldn’t have been as dramatic as it was, coming down to a field goal,” the former Patriots defensive lineman said Wednesday on ‘Felger & Mazz’ in response to questions about Faulk’s continued complaints about being “cheated” out of a Super Bowl victory. “Trust me. It would have been a blowout.”

    You have to love how strong McGinest fired back at Faulk. No one truly knows how much Spygate helped the Patriots in that Super Bowl. Faulk got his ring the year before, time to get over it. I’d feel bad for him if he never won a Super Bowl.

    What a steaming pile of bovine excrement!

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    I think the 2001 Rams were the best and most complete football team I ever saw play. We mowed through the schedule that year and if we didnt push fifty a game I was disappointed.

    Martz loved his toys and his arrogance was his downfall. He took advantage of Warner and it was our doom.
    "The horror"

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    Jaws and Schlereth Discuss Faulk’s Cheating Comments

    From NFL Live: Ron Jaworski and Mark Schlereth discuss Marshall Faulk’s comments about the Rams Super Bowl loss to the Patriots.

    Watch Jaws/Schlereth Talk About Faulk's Comments

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    Re: Jaws and Schlereth Discuss Faulk’s Cheating Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBill View Post
    From NFL Live: Ron Jaworski and Mark Schlereth discuss Marshall Faulk’s comments about the Rams Super Bowl loss to the Patriots.

    Watch Jaws/Schlereth Talk About Faulk's Comments
    More media spin worshipping at the thrown of belicheat, and trying to protect the non-existing integrity of the game. The only way Martz could have called a better game would be if he had the ability to throw penalty flags the officials weren't throwing.


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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    It has always been fishy how the tapes instantly got destroyed by goodell. Also the one play in the redzone that was stopped perfectly (like the D was setup for that play). Which apparently we never ran or practiced except once and it was in the walk through.

    But all that set aside, we lost. We might have gotten a lot of yards but we should have done better and scored more when we drove. Also..Martz should have ran faulk more. Anyway this and the 2OT Panthers game (especially this) are the only 2 Rams games I never ever want to talk about. Or when I do, I want to keep it at a minimum. Like now. I pushed this game way to the back of the brain and never like to be reminded of it. I didnt break my tv by throwing a remote into it that day for no reason.
    Last edited by QUINNtessentialTruth; -01-31-2013 at 10:25 PM.


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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    i get it though, losing sucks, but when the other side cheats.....it REALLY sucks

    been there, hate every second of it, you can get over the loss...but not the being cheated

    and obviously it wasn't a blowout even though they cheated, the rams were GOOD

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    The patriot loving media types and the patriot loving fans have always blamed Martz for the loss. Yes, they paint Martz as a bumbling boob and belichick as the genius. What better way to spin what really happened on the field?

    The thing that gripes me almost as much as anything is the Rams fans that, after 11 years and mountains of evidence to the contrary, continue to regurgitate that garbage.

    Three Rams turnovers and zero takeaways. A missed FG by Jeff Wilkens. A clock eating, bend but don't break approach to defense by Lovie Smith. Unprecedented resistance by the officials to call the game by the rules. Video taping of the Rams walk-through. But I'm sure the patriot lovers can find a way to blame all of this on Martz.

    I believe that Marshall Faulk does not blame Mike Martz. And I also believe that, if in private, Marshall would call anyone a bonehead that did blame Martz.



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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    [QUOTE=Ferter;453372]The patriot loving media types and the patriot loving fans have always blamed Martz for the loss. Yes, they paint Martz as a bumbling boob and belichick as the genius. What better way to spin what really happened on the field?

    The thing that gripes me almost as much as anything is the Rams fans that, after 11 years and mountains of evidence to the contrary, continue to regurgitate that garbage.

    Three Rams turnovers and zero takeaways. A missed FG by Jeff Wilkens. A clock eating, bend but don't break approach to defense by Lovie Smith. Unprecedented resistance by the officials to call the game by the rules. Video taping of the Rams walk-through. But I'm sure the patriot lovers can find a way to blame all of this on Martz.

    I believe that Marshall Faulk does not blame Mike Martz. And I also believe that, if in private, Marshall would call anyone a bonehead that did blame Martz. [Quote]









    Last edited by NJ Ramsfan1; -02-01-2013 at 11:14 AM.

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    The patriot loving media types and the patriot loving fans have always blamed Martz for the loss. Yes, they paint Martz as a bumbling boob and belichick as the genius. What better way to spin what really happened on the field?

    The thing that gripes me almost as much as anything is the Rams fans that, after 11 years and mountains of evidence to the contrary, continue to regurgitate that garbage.

    Three Rams turnovers and zero takeaways. A missed FG by Jeff Wilkens. A clock eating, bend but don't break approach to defense by Lovie Smith. Unprecedented resistance by the officials to call the game by the rules. Video taping of the Rams walk-through. But I'm sure the patriot lovers can find a way to blame all of this on Martz.

    I believe that Marshall Faulk does not blame Mike Martz. And I also believe that, if in private, Marshall would call anyone a bonehead that did blame Martz.



    I completely disagree with your assertion that Martz shared little to no blame. The head coach is responsible for game planning and strategy. I assume that Martz- like all coaches- had meetings with his coordinators and assistants so that they're all on the same page. If there were reservations about any element of the game plan, it would be addressed and changed. laying blame at the hands of Lovie Smith is both misguided and wrong. Poor defense didn't cost us that ball game. His defense gave up 13 points in 4 quarters. That should be good enough to win- especially with our offense.

    As I stated earlier (but you apparently dismissed) Martz' unwillingness/inability to adjust offensively hurt us. Not utilizing Marshall Faulk cannot be defended. And if New England was playing 7 deep and mugging our receivers- as has been asserted time and time again- then that's all the more reason to mix it up and run your Hall of Fame back. Martz' mad scientist approach to offense was both his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. And it cost us big time in SB XXXVI.

    Certainly turnovers aren't the fault of the coaching staff. No one said they were. But that doesn't change the strategical coaching elements of the game.

    And while spygate was disgraceful, and officiating was far from stellar, these did not cost us the football game. As a coach myself, I would certainly be bothered by a perceived lack of good officiating,but I would not use these as an excuse, at the risk of sounding like a sore loser with sour grapes. Same holds true for me as a fan. Blame rests squarely at the feet of the Rams, who as 13 point favorites went into New Orleans and sh** the bed. Both Martz and the players share culpability for this inexcusable loss.
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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    As a coach myself, I would certainly be bothered by a perceived lack of good officiating,but I would not use these as an excuse, at the risk of sounding like a sore loser with sour grapes. Same holds true for me as a fan. Blame rests squarely at the feet of the Rams, who as 13 point favorites went into New Orleans and sh** the bed.
    Certainly "blame" for the loss can be spread around including Martz (for not running Marshall more for starters). Martz could be stubborn when it came to his gameplan as in: " It doesn't matter what the defense does, if we execute our game, we will dictate and dominate."

    That said, horrible officiating can and does change the outcome of games. Just ask the Packers. The oft used (coach-speak) disclaimer that injuries are no excuse, may be politically correct, but depending on who and how many players are hurt, injuries can change the course and outcome of a game. The same is true of officiating.

    We didn't lose the game to the Patriots because of injuries, but the lack of officiating most certainly contributed heavily to the outcome. Martz's stubbornness and Ram players' mistakes did not help either.

    If Martz had utilized Marshall more, perhaps we could have overcome the officiating (or better said the lack of it), but we'll never know for sure. However, we do know for sure that we got screwed royally by the officials in that game.

    In fairness, I will admit that when the refs blow a call against the Whiners I cheer. So I realize that it probably isn't politically correct to expect good officiating for just the Rams. Therefore I am guilty of "sour grapes" - I can't honestly apologize though, because that game still pisses me off to this day ..

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I completely disagree with your assertion that Martz shared little to no blame.
    If you are going to change what I state to fit your side of the argument then there is really no sense in a debate.

    I never stated that Martz shared little to no blame. Rather, I pointed out specific events that would be ridiculous to blame on Martz.



    On the other hand, you stated that Martz deserves the lion's share of the blame. I did not quote that or any other part of your post. But let's have a look at it here:
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1
    Martz, in my view deserves the lion's share of the blame



    Your post is full of crap. Regurgitated garbage that Martz haters and patriot lovers have been spinning for years. In all honesty you sound like a patriot fan trying to defend what happened on the field that day by once again painting Martz as an idiot in the shadow of the media appointed genius, belichick.

    Your cry toward sportsmanship and being a good loser is a miserable attempt at nobility. There is nothing noble about cheaters. And it is certainly not noble to defend cheaters by taking the blame for what they gained outside of the rules. It would seem to me that only a patriot lover or a Martz hater would do this.

    Regardless, I still feel that there are some key plays during the game that are worth debating. However, I don't see one specific play or plays within your post that can be debated in a tangible way. You do argue that Martz should have run the ball more. Well, that is more than just a meaningless general statement. It's a simplistic, completely subjective and unfair evaluation of the game.



    Jeff Wilkens missed a FG in the first half. He was 1-2 for the game. Vinatieri was 2-2 for the game.

    Obviously the two turnovers in the first half were drive killers. You have to believe that those two drives alone could have resulted in at least 6 points for the Rams and 14 less for the patriots. Specifically, the infamous pick six, and with 1:20 left in the first half, the Proehl fumble that resulted in a 40 yard pats drive ending with a miraculous TD catch.

    In the 3rd quarter Kurt threw another pick that resulted in Vinatieri's second FG.

    All of these are crucial outcome changing events that are not the fault of Martz. And yet, Martz was able to put the plays in motion that would eventually tie the game.

    Then of course is the final and possibly worst officiated drive in the history of football. But I'm absolutely certain that the Martz haters, along with the patriot loving spin machine can find a way to blame Martz for that as well.




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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferter View Post
    If you are going to change what I state to fit your side of the argument then there is really no sense in a debate.

    I never stated that Martz shared little to no blame. Rather, I pointed out specific events that would be ridiculous to blame on Martz.



    On the other hand, you stated that Martz deserves the lion's share of the blame. I did not quote that or any other part of your post. But let's have a look at it here:




    Your post is full of crap. Regurgitated garbage that Martz haters and patriot lovers have been spinning for years. In all honesty you sound like a patriot fan trying to defend what happened on the field that day by once again painting Martz as an idiot in the shadow of the media appointed genius, belichick.

    Your cry toward sportsmanship and being a good loser is a miserable attempt at nobility. There is nothing noble about cheaters. And it is certainly not noble to defend cheaters by taking the blame for what they gained outside of the rules. It would seem to me that only a patriot lover or a Martz hater would do this.

    Regardless, I still feel that there are some key plays during the game that are worth debating. However, I don't see one specific play or plays within your post that can be debated in a tangible way. You do argue that Martz should have run the ball more. Well, that is more than just a meaningless general statement. It's a simplistic, completely subjective and unfair evaluation of the game.



    Jeff Wilkens missed a FG in the first half. He was 1-2 for the game. Vinatieri was 2-2 for the game.

    Obviously the two turnovers in the first half were drive killers. You have to believe that those two drives alone could have resulted in at least 6 points for the Rams and 14 less for the patriots. Specifically, the infamous pick six, and with 1:20 left in the first half, the Proehl fumble that resulted in a 40 yard pats drive ending with a miraculous TD catch.

    In the 3rd quarter Kurt threw another pick that resulted in Vinatieri's second FG.

    All of these are crucial outcome changing events that are not the fault of Martz. And yet, Martz was able to put the plays in motion that would eventually tie the game.

    Then of course is the final and possibly worst officiated drive in the history of football. But I'm absolutely certain that the Martz haters, along with the patriot loving spin machine can find a way to blame Martz for that as well.




    You need to grow up, Ferter. Another internet tough guy- real mature. Telling me I'm full of crap and insinuatng "I'm a Patriot fan" is both juvenile and counterproductive. My respectful disagreement with you was met with an insult. And as a football coach, i can tell you I've FORGOTTEN more about game strategy than you'll ever know. Anyone who watched that game with an objective eye can find fault with Martz' game plan, player preparation and in-game adjustments to the offense. To think otherwise is to know nothing about football. The Rams were in trouble from the start.

    You claim in your response that your original post didn't absolve Martz, yet it is rife with insinuations that do just that. Incredulously, you pin blame on Lovie Smith, whose unit gave up 13 points in 4 quarters. And you're belief that "Marshall Faulk wouldn't blame him and call anyone who does a bonehead" is ridiculous. I'm confident Faulk would privately (and justifiably) express disappointment he wasn't utilized more and thus find fault with the offensive game plan.

    I've said all I'm going to say on the subject and won't waste my time on a back-and-forth pissing match with you.

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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    You need to grow up, Ferter. Another internet tough guy- real mature. Telling me I'm full of crap and insinuatng "I'm a Patriot fan" is both juvenile and counterproductive. My respectful disagreement with you was met with an insult. And as a football coach, i can tell you I've FORGOTTEN more about game strategy than you'll ever know. Anyone who watched that game with an objective eye can find fault with Martz' game plan, player preparation and in-game adjustments to the offense. To think otherwise is to know nothing about football. The Rams were in trouble from the start.

    You claim in your response that your original post didn't absolve Martz, yet it is rife with insinuations that do just that. Incredulously, you pin blame on Lovie Smith, whose unit gave up 13 points in 4 quarters. And you're belief that "Marshall Faulk wouldn't blame him and call anyone who does a bonehead" is ridiculous. I'm confident Faulk would privately (and justifiably) express disappointment he wasn't utilized more and thus find fault with the offensive game plan.

    I've said all I'm going to say on the subject and won't waste my time on a back-and-forth pissing match with you.
    That's it? You are once again impossible to debate with. First you call my post out by changing what I say to fit the needs of your argument. I should have known better that you really did not want to debate, rather you just want others to believe that your opinions are law.

    Rather than come back with something tangible that we can debate you paint me as some immature internet tough guy and then run off in a huff. That is so mature on your part. As far as I'm concerned you are now the first to toss out personal insults.

    I stated that your post was full of crap not that you were full of crap. Whether you know it or not there is a difference. There were two choices "Martz Hater" or "pat fan". Yet you infer pat fan. Once again, changing what I state to fit your needs.

    After all that I offer something tangible to debate about the game. And yet you have nothing. Standing firm on your intangible notions of pregame prep, strategy, and in game adjustments. All the while reinforcing them with the announcement that you are the all knowing coach and to disagree is nothing more than a minion committing sacrilege.

    Yeah you go ahead and spew your hatred venom towards Martz. Then you run off when someone else disagrees. Just be informed, you are not running from an online or offline tough guy, rather you are running from just another average joe that's not afraid to call you out on the Martz rhetoric.


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    Re: Bernie: Faulk Still Reeling From 'Being Cheated'

    Marshall touched the ball 5 times in the second half. League MVP and he was basically a decoy the entire second half while the receivers got mugged and Warner got drilled. Martz shoulders a lot of the blame in my opinion because he HAS to find a way to get the ball in Marshall's hands. If some go for a few yards at a time (even though Marshall averaged 5.5 per that year), you just never knew when he was going to break one and that is why you had to keep him involved. Too great of an asset to not involve.
    Last edited by GolfnRAMFAN; -02-02-2013 at 09:56 AM.

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