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Thread: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by swatter555 View Post
    You can watch the game another time if you want, but the Rams couldn't move the ball until the 4th quarter. The Rams didn't even enter the red zone.

    You say Bradford is on the right track; I am hoping that is true.
    On the first drive of the first quarter, Bradford was 4 of 5 for 52 yards. The 15 yard personal foul penalty on Gibson stalled the drive and the Rams settled for a FG. Again, what standard of perfection are you holding Bradford to?

    Now, there were other drives that were bogged down by penalties, bad protection leading to sacks, and yes, some bad throws by Bradford, but the guy was solid, had good numbers, and kept his cool throughout the game. He did it with almost no support from the running game, and wildly inconsistent line play. Bradford is right on track.
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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Sunday in Detroit, Bradford completed 68 percent of his throws and posted a passer rating of 105.1. Operating behind a line that lost two starters, he led the Rams to two go-ahead scores in the fourth quarter. With the game's outcome on the line, Bradford completed seven of nine passes for 104 yards and a touchdown for a fourth-quarter passer rating of 153.1. According to Pro Football Focus, Bradford was under pressure on 30 percent of his drop-backs to pass, but still had an accuracy rating of 66.7 percent.

    He's on track... put last year in the past. He's healthy now.
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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Ironically, had the defense made a stop on that last drive, we would not be having this conversation.

    I'm not blaming the defense, by any stretch of the imagination, but simply pointing out that any of several changes would have turned that "L" into a "W", and thereby made this whole conversation moot.
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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by ljcrayton View Post
    I'll admit, I ragged a little on Bradford this past sunday and I don't take it back. I understand the problems he has had to deal with in the past, but the point I was making this past sunday was that Sammy didn't look like a $50 million quaterback...Matt Stafford did, but Bradford didn't. Stafford couldn't start a game worse. You are playing against arguably the worst team in NFL history, a team that showed no signs of life in the past 5 years (except 2010), and you open up with 3 interceptions and lose a fumble and still find a way to win...that's what $50 million dollars looks like to me...no matter what happens, you win...that was my argument this sunday.
    yeah I don't get this at all. Stafford through 3 picks(one pick 6) and could of had a couple more passes picked off.

    Of course he led them to two key drives down the stretch as well but we do not have the line or receivers Detroit has.

    Titus Young would probably be our #1 receiver and he's their 3rd receiver and obviously we don't have anyone like Megatron. Stafford played a mediocre game while getting pressured less and while surrounded by far better talent.

    If you are only going to judge Bradford by wins and losses than he's not likely to look good. We just don't have the talent to put up 10-12 wins like the Lions will.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    To expect a perfect game from Sam Bradford, or any player really, is unrealistic. The other side of that coin is I'm not sure anyone is honestly expecting absolute perfection, so it sounds like a bit of a straw man argument to me.

    I thought Bradford did pretty well against Detroit. I would have liked to see more production in the early part of the game when the defense was giving the offense a number of opportunities, but what's encouraging is that Sam showed up when his team needed him the most, which is a quality that the best at the position share.

    Something I want to see Sam do a better job of is taking advantage of the big play opportunities that present themselves. When I look at the Rams offense, I see limitations. Simply put, this offense does not have the talent to create many outcome-changing opportunities. This isn't an offense like the Packers or the Saints or the Patriots, where opportunities for big plays are frequent and one missed opportunity isn't as big of a deal because another is bound to come up soon.

    To me, that's why it's so important for Sam to hit on those kinds of opportunities when they present themselves, because they don't happen often, at least not as often as they do for other, more talented teams. This team doesn't get many golden opportunities, we can't afford to miss them when they come along. Sam Bradford is (arguably) the most talented offensive player on the Rams; when everyone else does their job well and presents an opening, he needs to be able to take advantage of it more often than not.

    He did just that on the Gibson touchdown pass, where he recognized the coverage and delivered a ball with the kind of accuracy that a predator drone missile would be jealous of. But on the deep pass to Givens and the deep sideline route to Amendola, he missed on both of them. Instead of coming out and making a statement on the opening drive of the third quarter, Bradford reacted to an oncoming Suh by just folding up and bracing for the hit rather than quickly dumping off to his outlets.

    Again, the expectation (at least for me) is not perfection, but better efficiency and taking advantage of the big play opportunities that are there. Short, high percentage throws are fine, but the players who truly separate themselves are those who can make the more difficult ones, the more impactful ones, that count. I think Sam showed he can do that with the Gibson pass, and it's a great sign to see him overcoming some early hiccups to play his best in the final quarter when his team needed it the most; the objective for this season should be doing it more regularly.
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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    I heard this line to describe Bradford and I agree with it.... he already is a really good QB he needs to become a really good football player.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    To expect a perfect game from Sam Bradford, or any player really, is unrealistic. The other side of that coin is I'm not sure anyone is honestly expecting absolute perfection, so it sounds like a bit of a straw man argument to me.
    Bradford had very good measureables against Detroit, looked poised for the most part, and came through in crunch time, yet the same old criticisms continue. Considering the circumstances, with a defense pinning their ears back and coming after him most of the game, I'm not sure Bradford could have done much better. Sure he could have completed a few more passes, but as I mentioned previously, every QB in every game has the same misses Bradford had at some point. People wanted improvement, he delivers, yet he is panned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    But on the deep pass to Givens and the deep sideline route to Amendola, he missed on both of them. Instead of coming out and making a statement on the opening drive of the third quarter, Bradford reacted to an oncoming Suh by just folding up and bracing for the hit rather than quickly dumping off to his outlets.
    The pass to Givens was underthrown, but Givens put himself in position, got both hands on the ball and could have easily made the catch. For QB's to convert big play opportunities, they need teammates to do their part. Stafford had an almost identical deep pass that was underthrown to Calvin Johnson, but he adjusted, went up, got his hands on the ball, and made the catch for 51 yards, bailing Stafford out and seting up a score.

    The sack by Suh was not Bradfords best moment.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    No one is expecting perfection or even close to it. I simply want to see growth. His stat line in the Detriot game was good, but I don't think it was one of his better games. You can't say Bradford had a good day on a day when the Rams couldn't even enter the red zone and only scored one offensive touchdown.

    I am not saying their is even a "Bradford situation", I just want to see the super star emerge that we all expected.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    The pass to Givens was underthrown, but Givens put himself in position, got both hands on the ball and could have easily made the catch. For QB's to convert big play opportunities, they need teammates to do their part. Stafford had an almost identical deep pass that was underthrown to Calvin Johnson, but he adjusted, went up, got his hands on the ball, and made the catch for 51 yards, bailing Stafford out and seting up a score.
    If you listened to Fisher presser I think it was on Monday, he said he was disappointed the Givens did not plant his foot and go attack the ball at it's highest point. When you look at it, Givens slows down and tries to catch the ball against his chest. Shotty said the same thing yesterday in his presser. The ball could have been deeper fore sure but it also should have been caught IMO.

    That was the first time Bradford and Givens have played in a game together. Sam also threw a ball on a HOT read and Givens did not change his route. It will take some time for these guys including Quick to perfect their timing.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by swatter555 View Post
    No one is expecting perfection or even close to it. I simply want to see growth. His stat line in the Detriot game was good, but I don't think it was one of his better games. You can't say Bradford had a good day on a day when the Rams couldn't even enter the red zone and only scored one offensive touchdown.

    I am not saying their is even a "Bradford situation", I just want to see the super star emerge that we all expected.
    Considering an ineffective run game, inconsistent line play, and several drive killing penalties, I think Bradford had a very good game. He can't do it all on his own, but IMO, he did his part, and he showed noticeable improvement.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Do you want to know what the difference is between a good QB and a bad QB with terrible offensive lines?

    Bradford: 17/25, 198 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT's
    Cutler: 11/27, 126 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT's

    Hmm...


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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Do you want to know what the difference is between a good QB and a bad QB with terrible offensive lines?

    Bradford: 17/25, 198 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT's
    Cutler: 11/27, 126 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT's

    Hmm...
    Nah, Cutler isn't bad, the Packers just had some "good luck" against them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    For QB's to convert big play opportunities, they need teammates to do their part.
    Which Givens did, by getting behind the coverage.

    I've got to tell you, I really don't understand the logic of calling out fans for the "impossible standard" placed on Sam Bradford, only to then criticize Chris Givens - who was playing in his first regular season NFL game - for not making a Megatron-like play to bail out Bradford's bad pass.

    Could Givens have made the catch? Perhaps, but an accurate pass to a wide open receiver avoids even putting him in that situation. To downplay Bradford's error ("The pass to Givens was underthrown, BUT...") while wagging a finger at Givens for not doing more after already doing what he was supposed to do strikes me as a very hollow criticism.

    Fans regularly and rightly point out the poor circumstances Bradford finds himself in due to the players around him. When guys around Bradford let him down, it's pointed out often. But Givens held up his end on that play, Bradford didn't. That shouldn't somehow be morphed into, "Well, Givens still could have done more."


    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Do you want to know what the difference is between a good QB and a bad QB with terrible offensive lines?

    Bradford: 17/25, 198 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT's
    Cutler: 11/27, 126 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT's

    Hmm...
    Ignoring for a moment that you just started a thread less than a day ago talking about how you think the Rams' line overall is decent, I can say very confidently as someone who watched both games that the Rams' line held up much better against Detroit than the Bears' line did against Green Bay last night. Not even close.

    But ignoring my own subjective observations, how about some stats? Cutler was sacked seven times last night while Bradford was sacked four times against the Lions, the last of which came on the final play of the game when Sam was running around on the ol' desperation throw play. According to Pro Football Focus, Gabe Carimi by himself was responsible for five times as many hurries last night as the entire Rams OL allowed in Week One.

    The last time Bradford was sacked seven times like Cutler was last night? He had a completion percentage in the mid-40s and a QB rating of 64.5. Not exactly stellar marks.

    I don't think anyone is disputing the difficulties a quarterback will have when not adequately protected, but to compare our line's performance against Detroit to what Chicago did last night against Green Bay is pretty ridiculous.
    Last edited by Nick; -09-14-2012 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Merging back to back responses
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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    I'm glad we're not over-analyzing one or two plays.

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    Re: Bernie: Giving up on Bradford for Griffin would have been wrong move ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I've got to tell you, I really don't understand the logic of calling out fans for the "impossible standard" placed on Sam Bradford, only to then criticize Chris Givens - who was playing in his first regular season NFL game - for not making a Megatron-like play to bail out Bradford's bad pass.

    Could Givens have made the catch? Perhaps, but an accurate pass to a wide open receiver avoids even putting him in that situation. To downplay Bradford's error ("The pass to Givens was underthrown, BUT...") while wagging a finger at Givens for not doing more after already doing what he was supposed to do strikes me as a very hollow criticism.
    When fans intimate that Bradford didn't do his job, that he had only one great pass (a point someone actually made), that he looked skittish in the pocket, that he didn't look like a $50 million QB, or that he'll never be anything more than a game manager, then yeah, I'm going to speak my mind and make the case for Bradford, who I thought had a very good game under less than ideal conditions.

    As far as Givens, it would have been a tough catch, but he had both his mitts on the ball and couldn't bring it in. I never said he made a horrible play, I simply think it was a catchable ball. I called the pass what it was, an underthrow, and made no excuses for Bradford. Wouldn't it be great if Sam had someone like Johnson to help his cause and take advantage of those big play opportunities, like Stafford did on that underthrown 51 yarder?
    Last edited by r8rh8rmike; -09-14-2012 at 10:08 PM.

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