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  1. #16
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by KoaKoi View Post
    ugh... you know, you'd think that one of these days, i'd learn my lesson and stop clicking on clan msg's that post bernie articles. we've known for a long time what kind of hack bernie is. i only blame me at this point.

    That's a good point. I should be mad at myself, not Bernie.


  2. #17
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by BM
    Fact: Over the last 10 seasons, 120 NFL teams have made the playoffs. And of those 120 postseason entries, 64 were led by first-round QBs. That's 53.3 percent
    Fact: There are nearly as many teams in the past decade's playoffs without a 1st round QB as there are with a 1st round QB.


    Truly mind-boggling, Bern.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #18
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Originally Posted by KoaKoi
    ugh... you know, you'd think that one of these days, i'd learn my lesson and stop clicking on clan msg's that post bernie articles. we've known for a long time what kind of hack bernie is. i only blame me at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by shower beers View Post
    That's a good point. I should be mad at myself, not Bernie.
    That kind of talk makes me worried for both of you. It's so tragically common for victims of abuse to blame themselves.

    Break the cycle ! Bernie is a bad columnist & it's not your fault. You love The Rams so you read his drivel on the subject. He cynically exploits that.

    But unlike him, you are a Rams fan with a brain; don't let Bernie make you feel guilty about that.

  4. #19
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Bernie Miklasz
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    03/11/2010

    The Rams are eyeing Bradford as a strong possibility for No. 1 overall. As they should be provided Bradford passes inspection when doctors examine his surgically repaired right shoulder.
    Av made a good point on this observation by Bernie ..

    Of course, the idea of drafting a quarterback first overall has caused an eruption of high-pitched clucking from the precious Chicken Littles among us. These are jittery shaking Rams fans who have decided it's insane to draft a quarterback No. 1 overall.
    How about if some of us cluckers are not convinced he's worth the #1 overall pick? I could care less about other teams failures, we've our share as well. It really boils down to DeSpags opinion of Sam in every phase of his game after they've done their due diligence.

    If the Rams love Bradford and are convinced that he's got the right stuff, then they should follow their judgment.
    Nothing like stating the obvious .. hello ..

    Someone please refresh my memory: How did Brees work out for New Orleans?
    Sorry, but the Saints were not spending a #1 overall on an untested rookie quarterback. Brees had already established himself as a leader and a solid NFL quarterback ..

    And before anyone has another anxiety attack, let me add this: Yes, the Rams need receivers and a better offensive line. I know that. I also know it would be silly to hurl an overexposed Bradford into a shark tank. The wiser approach would be to gradually ease him in.
    Then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to "ease in" a few more talented players first before we draft a QB. How about next year's crop of QBs? How do they stack up? Perhaps some of us don't see reaching for a QB this year as an absolute necessity ..

    But your best shot for finding one is in the first round.
    So what you're really saying is don't be afraid to reach for need with the 1st overall pick? Macho up and let it rip?

    Besides, the sky already has fallen on the Rams.
    You're kidding .. really? Thanks for the heads up on that one ..

    Now they need a quarterback to pump it up and put that bright sky back in place.
    Great idea! Let's reach for need with our 1st overall, wouldn't want to be thought of as cowardly by not "manning up"

    Hopefully the DeSpags team will not need to reference your counsel on this one Bernie ...

    I'm not a Bernie hater, but he doesn't get an A on this one ..

  5. #20
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    I am dumber now, after having read this...

    With our need at both positions, and assuming Bradford's shoulder is at 100%, I cannot see how Bradford could grade out higher overall than Suh. I've watched film on both and WOW! Bradford was the QB in a great system with great personnel surrounding him. He's good, but it wasn't all him. Suh, on the other hand was a One-Man-Wrecking Machine. He was a standout all on his own.

    I understand the quandry we are in, but... I would grade Suh higher and pull the trigger on him as soon as the clock starts ticking. IMHO, of course.


    Hooah


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  6. #21
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie
    And then there are Dr. Chicken Littles. The Doctor Littles are experts on shoulder injuries.

    Just thinking about Bradford's shoulder makes them tremble.

    Well, we all know that it is impossible for a quarterback to recover from shoulder surgery. Just ask the New Orleans Saints, the dumbbells who gave Drew Brees 60 million free-agent dollars before the 2006 season. And the Brees injury concern rotator cuff surgery was more severe than what Bradford faces.

    Someone please refresh my memory: How did Brees work out for New Orleans?
    I like Bradford, and think he'll most likely be a solid NFL QB, but I am concerned about his shoulder and I think the concern is legitimate, regardless of what Bernie tells us. Yes, Brees worked out, but there are plenty of players who do not work out after surgery. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at very closely in making a decision as franchise affecting as the #1 pick in the draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoaKoi
    ugh... you know, you'd think that one of these days, i'd learn my lesson and stop clicking on clan msg's that post bernie articles. we've known for a long time what kind of hack bernie is. i only blame me at this point.
    Yep, I ALWAYS preface every thread title with Bernie's name to warn everybody what they're getting into.

  7. #22
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Scidog68 View Post
    I am dumber now, after having read this...

    With our need at both positions, and assuming Bradford's shoulder is at 100%, I cannot see how Bradford could grade out higher overall than Suh. I've watched film on both and WOW! Bradford was the QB in a great system with great personnel surrounding him. He's good, but it wasn't all him. Suh, on the other hand was a One-Man-Wrecking Machine. He was a standout all on his own.

    I understand the quandry we are in, but... I would grade Suh higher and pull the trigger on him as soon as the clock starts ticking. IMHO, of course.
    Well I guess to old boys from Modesto will tend to think alike.Feeling the same here and where is the hot spot to watch football next year in town? one of my buddies always goes to a place called Sashawon's? Off of Standiford where the old Foster Farms resturant was at. Well since sidelines closed.
    I stopped going to the dentist.......I got tired of the cavity searches!

  8. #23
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by theodus69 View Post
    Well I guess to old boys from Modesto will tend to think alike.Feeling the same here and where is the hot spot to watch football next year in town? one of my buddies always goes to a place called Sashawon's? Off of Standiford where the old Foster Farms resturant was at. Well since sidelines closed.

    Thanks for the support, Theo! As for a hot spot, um... I got tired of looking, so I bought a new TV. Maybe Scoreboards? If not, you are always welcome to swing by to catch the game!


    Hooah


    Win, Lose or Draw... Rams for Life!
    :football:

  9. #24
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Bernie ... bah! Draft Suh 1st. Ask QB questions later.
    Last edited by RealRam; -03-14-2010 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Ram

  10. #25
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Was Bernie's article that bad or were people simply bashing Bernie because its become the cool thing to do around here?

    He's merely using the same screwy logic darn near every other analyst has been using, he's just getting bashed more becuase you guys have some kind of personal vendetta against Bernie and not the other guys.

    I understand the BPA talk, but honestly, its not that great of an approach all the time.

    If you have a young Peyton MAnning or just drafted a QB last year, and the BPA in the draft is lo and behold, a QB, do you draft him?

    of course not.

    Same in this situation, our D-Line is far from being the fearsome foursome but its not a glaring weak point, and considering the D-Line talent this year as opposed to the QB talent this year, I think there is a significant drop-off after the first round guys are gone, and that's debatable.

    I want to see us take Bradford because he has everything you want in a QB damn near.

    Can make all the throws, intelligent, leader, hard working. Only questions he has that are reasonable is durability, which i spoke about in another thread. We don't see all the hits that Bradford takes during the season because he got up from them. all we see out of choice is the one hit that messed up his shoulder because thats the one he didn't get up from. The guy was 12 pounds lighter and fell directly on his shoulder in a perfect spot for it to get injured. Remember it also wasn't even his rotator cuff and no damage to that was suffered at any rate.

    I think the Bradford durability thing has been blown out of proportion and that with the weight he's added and some additional components to our offensive line, he will be fine and should be the guy come April.

    Taking Defensive Lineman year after year is not going to get it done. I realize every year there is new guys but Suh is not going to help our offense get any better next year.

    The top QBs taken in the past 5 drafts werent the best guys available either (Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Jmarc, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford), sometimes you just have to pull the plug if your positional need greatly outranks that of the BPA atm and the depth of the draft allows you to get a solid component later on.

  11. #26
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Was Bernie's article that bad or were people simply bashing Bernie because its become the cool thing to do around here?

    He's merely using the same screwy logic darn near every other analyst has been using, he's just getting bashed more becuase you guys have some kind of personal vendetta against Bernie and not the other guys.

    I understand the BPA talk, but honestly, its not that great of an approach all the time.

    If you have a young Peyton MAnning or just drafted a QB last year, and the BPA in the draft is lo and behold, a QB, do you draft him?

    of course not.

    Same in this situation, our D-Line is far from being the fearsome foursome but its not a glaring weak point, and considering the D-Line talent this year as opposed to the QB talent this year, I think there is a significant drop-off after the first round guys are gone, and that's debatable.

    I want to see us take Bradford because he has everything you want in a QB damn near.

    Can make all the throws, intelligent, leader, hard working. Only questions he has that are reasonable is durability, which i spoke about in another thread. We don't see all the hits that Bradford takes during the season because he got up from them. all we see out of choice is the one hit that messed up his shoulder because thats the one he didn't get up from. The guy was 12 pounds lighter and fell directly on his shoulder in a perfect spot for it to get injured. Remember it also wasn't even his rotator cuff and no damage to that was suffered at any rate.

    I think the Bradford durability thing has been blown out of proportion and that with the weight he's added and some additional components to our offensive line, he will be fine and should be the guy come April.

    Taking Defensive Lineman year after year is not going to get it done. I realize every year there is new guys but Suh is not going to help our offense get any better next year.

    The top QBs taken in the past 5 drafts werent the best guys available either (Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Jmarc, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford), sometimes you just have to pull the plug if your positional need greatly outranks that of the BPA atm and the depth of the draft allows you to get a solid component later on.
    It's the extreme & cynically inflammatory nature of Bernie's pro-Bradford rant that bugs me.And his arguments are, as per usual,imo, garbled & ill-informed as many have pointed out. Your arguments are fine but they are largely opinion, not irrefutable fact, as I'm sure you know.

    I object to anyone, inc Bernie, saying at this moment in time that their choice is the only choice & everyone else is a coward or out of touch ignorant fool if they disagree or want more info.If he'd written the same article in favor of Suh, I'd feel the same. It is ridiculous & ridicule it, I did. It's not that simple & it will never be proven, one way or the other, that there ever was a single right choice;too many factors involved.

    Bernie,imo, is the Emily Litella of Rams reportage & just the idea that he supports Bradford is almost enough to turn me off the guy. Miklasz writes the most reactionary crud he can think of quite often, imo, just to get readership/reaction.The rest of the time his opinions seem to be blown in the wind of general media opinion, not his own. It's cheap,lazy, & insults my intelligence. It certainly doesn't inform or enlighten me.

  12. #27
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    I think this "piling on" that takes place everytime Bernie writes an article is both over the top and in many cases ignorant. Yes, he like all writers prints articles which we find fault with. Sometimes his tone may bother us. But many times he makes valid points which are dismissed by people just for the sake of being argumentatative. Enough, already.

    Bernie's assertion is simple: If the Rams feel Bradford grades out fine physically and feel he is the type of QB to lead a franchise, pick him. It is truly amazing how many people on this board and elsewhere seem to be armchair experts on whether or not Claussen, Bradford, McCoy, et. al. will be successful at the next level. They try to justify themselves by saying "well, I saw Bradford play against Texas or Baylor and he didn't show me much, blah, blah, blah." Truth be told, when it comes to these guys having future success, no one even remotely has a clue-myself included. This is what we hire football executives for- to make these judgments using every conceivable resource and judgment at their disposal. And if THEY screw up, well, then we call for their heads.

    The assertion that Bernie "didn't provide enough facts" in his article to justify his position is ridiculous. He clearly stated numerous facts: that bradford was a high character guy. That he was tough. That he had the necessary size. That he scored high on the wonderlich. That he is versatile and a quick study. That NFL execs think highly of him. Don't really know what more you want short of him looking into a crystal ball or demonstrating clairvoyance.

    The idea that "we wait till next year then get a QB is ridiculous on its face. Who the heck knows what position we'll have in the 2011 draft and who will be available at that spot? Again, the answer is "nobody knows".

    Successful teams have QB's ranging from good to great. Manning. Roethlisberger, Brady, Rivers, Brees, McNabb, Romo, Eli Manning, etc. Relying on "hoping to find a guy in the later rounds"- as again Bernie pointed out, only to be dismissed- is foolhardy strategy. The Rams caught lightning in a bottle with Warner, as did New England with Brady.

    As for the assertion someone made that "one doesn't need a great QB to win a Super Bowl"- well, if you exclude Trent Dilfer and Doug Williams and maybe one or two others, you'll find that 38 or 39 of the teams that won Super Bowls had QB's who ranged from good to great. And Dilfer was the beneficiary of an awesome Ravens defense while Williams had an excellent overall team around him- two qualities the Rams DO NOT have at this point.

    I believe in balance and utilizing the running game effectively as many others do. But relying on Steven Jackson to save the day while we plug in some middling journeyman not only won't be successful it's gonna turn Steven Jackson into Earl Campbell within two years. And yet another glaring Rams need will pop up.

    In sum, identify the guy you think has the capability of leading your franchise for the next ten years. If it's Bradford, take him. If it isn't, get Suh or whomever you feel is the best player available. The Rams need to take a chance. No, not a foolish chance based on a lack of due diligence- but a calculated chance on a guy leading this team back to respectability. And THAT was Bernie's point- which I feel was a very fair one.

  13. #28
    Bralidore(RAMMODE)'s Avatar
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I think this "piling on" that takes place everytime Bernie writes an article is both over the top and in many cases ignorant. Yes, he like all writers prints articles which we find fault with. Sometimes his tone may bother us. But many times he makes valid points which are dismissed by people just for the sake of being argumentatative. Enough, already.

    Bernie's assertion is simple: If the Rams feel Bradford grades out fine physically and feel he is the type of QB to lead a franchise, pick him. It is truly amazing how many people on this board and elsewhere seem to be armchair experts on whether or not Claussen, Bradford, McCoy, et. al. will be successful at the next level. They try to justify themselves by saying "well, I saw Bradford play against Texas or Baylor and he didn't show me much, blah, blah, blah." Truth be told, when it comes to these guys having future success, no one even remotely has a clue-myself included. This is what we hire football executives for- to make these judgments using every conceivable resource and judgment at their disposal. And if THEY screw up, well, then we call for their heads.

    The assertion that Bernie "didn't provide enough facts" in his article to justify his position is ridiculous. He clearly stated numerous facts: that bradford was a high character guy. That he was tough. That he had the necessary size. That he scored high on the wonderlich. That he is versatile and a quick study. That NFL execs think highly of him. Don't really know what more you want short of him looking into a crystal ball or demonstrating clairvoyance.

    The idea that "we wait till next year then get a QB is ridiculous on its face. Who the heck knows what position we'll have in the 2011 draft and who will be available at that spot? Again, the answer is "nobody knows".

    Successful teams have QB's ranging from good to great. Manning. Roethlisberger, Brady, Rivers, Brees, McNabb, Romo, Eli Manning, etc. Relying on "hoping to find a guy in the later rounds"- as again Bernie pointed out, only to be dismissed- is foolhardy strategy. The Rams caught lightning in a bottle with Warner, as did New England with Brady.

    As for the assertion someone made that "one doesn't need a great QB to win a Super Bowl"- well, if you exclude Trent Dilfer and Doug Williams and maybe one or two others, you'll find that 38 or 39 of the teams that won Super Bowls had QB's who ranged from good to great. And Dilfer was the beneficiary of an awesome Ravens defense while Williams had an excellent overall team around him- two qualities the Rams DO NOT have at this point.

    I believe in balance and utilizing the running game effectively as many others do. But relying on Steven Jackson to save the day while we plug in some middling journeyman not only won't be successful it's gonna turn Steven Jackson into Earl Campbell within two years. And yet another glaring Rams need will pop up.

    In sum, identify the guy you think has the capability of leading your franchise for the next ten years. If it's Bradford, take him. If it isn't, get Suh or whomever you feel is the best player available. The Rams need to take a chance. No, not a foolish chance based on a lack of due diligence- but a calculated chance on a guy leading this team back to respectability. And THAT was Bernie's point- which I feel was a very fair one.
    Thank you, Bernie makes points I disagree with, but no more then your typical journalist. He said some things that isn't good logic but it was basically a repeat of what other guys have said. As NJ stated, he actually made some valid points as to why we should actually draft Bradford, to sum it up, the only question mark he has is that shoulder which is widely reported to be fine with no pain or stiffness.

    Let's not turn every Bernie article into a joke post just because AV seems to have it in for the guy. His opinions are no worse then many other analyst and sometimes has valid points. He's simply being aggressive in saying the Rams should get Bradford if he seems to be the guy and take a reasonable chance if he is a few points behind Suh, which many here including myself have stated because it makes total sense, given our positional needs, the positions positional value, and the overall impact of the team should you get the best case scenario of either pick.

    Regardless of whether you agree with me or not. A few things are facts.

    Suh won't make our offense score more points. On paper, Defensive Line is deeper in this draft than Quarterback. Single good Defensive Lineman make less impact on a team then a single good quarterback (do i really have to give examples?). A good defensive lineman is easier to acquire then a good quarterback.

    Do we want a promising rookie signal caller at Quarterback, our most important position, that may or may not have an impact? Or do we want another rookie defensive tackle for our rotation, one of our lesser important positions, that may or may not have an impact. We need a defensive end more than a defensive tackle imo.

    If Bradford grades out around Suh, then he doesn't HAVE to be the pick, but IMO he is the wiser choice not only for next year but for years to come. You don't bank on picking high in a subsequent draft to pick a quarterback that may or may not be at your pick, may or may not be a good choice, may or may not even be healthy. That's how you get fired...especially seeing as your coaching staff is in all likely hood playing for their job.
    Last edited by Bralidore(RAMMODE); -03-13-2010 at 10:47 AM.

  14. #29
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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I think this "piling on" that takes place everytime Bernie writes an article is both over the top and in many cases ignorant. Yes, he like all writers prints articles which we find fault with. Sometimes his tone may bother us. But many times he makes valid points which are dismissed by people just for the sake of being argumentatative. Enough, already.
    It really doesn't help when the title of his article says the Rams NEED to show some fortitude and draft Bradford, as if that is the only mindset to have, then label anyone that disagrees with him a "chicken little". Bernie is practically begging for "pilling on".

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    Re: Bernie: Rams Need To Show Some Fortitude And Draft Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Was Bernie's article that bad or were people simply bashing Bernie because its become the cool thing to do around here?

    He's merely using the same screwy logic darn near every other analyst has been using, he's just getting bashed more becuase you guys have some kind of personal vendetta against Bernie and not the other guys.
    That shouldn't be an excuse to accept this faulty logic though, do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    I think this "piling on" that takes place everytime Bernie writes an article is both over the top and in many cases ignorant. Yes, he like all writers prints articles which we find fault with. Sometimes his tone may bother us. But many times he makes valid points which are dismissed by people just for the sake of being argumentatative. Enough, already.
    I wasn't personally bashing this article because it's Bernie, and I will agree with you guys that he seems to be given a very short leash around here. My point, and I was joined by a few others in this thread, is that he wasn't evaluating Bradford as a prospect hardly at all. I noted one sentence that was devoted to this. The rest of the article was sweeping generalizations based on the recent trends of the league. The successes and failures of past players picked in similar places in the draft have absolutely nothing to do with the present. You would have to agree that this method is a very poor approach to drafting cornerstones for our organization. My argument was that Bradford should be judged for Bradford, and Bernie doesn't seem to address this at all in his article.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    The assertion that Bernie "didn't provide enough facts" in his article to justify his position is ridiculous. He clearly stated numerous facts: that bradford was a high character guy. That he was tough. That he had the necessary size. That he scored high on the wonderlich. That he is versatile and a quick study. That NFL execs think highly of him. Don't really know what more you want short of him looking into a crystal ball or demonstrating clairvoyance.
    I know this may be a bit nit-picky and for that I apologize, but some of these things aren't facts at all. Bradford is a high character guy. I may agree with this sentiment, and I do, but that does not make it factual. Can you measure character? Some may not feel the same way, for whatever reason. The same with toughness. Some may not find his as tough as others, and they are allowed this thought, because it's entirely opinion based. Really, the only fact from this is that he scored high on the wonderlic. That is a measurable statistic. I can point to that fact when asked.

    I'm not asking for Bernie to "look into the crystal ball" here. I'm asking him to not judge Bradford based on how his predecessors have performed, because that has nothing to do with Bradford. I'm stating that a much better article would have been one describing why BRADFORD should be the first pick in the draft, not why a QUARTERBACK is a good choice to take with the first pick.

    And it isn't because I have a vendetta against Bernie, and it isn't because I want us to pick Suh. I agree that Bradford should be our pick right now, but not because of the way Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez have played so far. It's because to me, Bradford appears to possess the intangibles to be successful in the NFL. And that's my opinion.

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