Bernie on the Shaw Rumors

[RamWraith]

Thursday (before the draft) when I spoke to Shaw, and I asked him which players he liked best and in what order, he replied:

McFadden
Dorsey
C. Long

Friday when I spoke to him, Shaw said he was staying out of this, and it was Devaney's draft, and Linehan's (from the standpoint that Devaney wanted Linehan's input). Shaw wasn't going to argue on behalf of any other player. The only thing he said he told Devaney was, if you're going to take Long, try to move down a spot if possible and get him at 3. That's what the Rams tried to do, but ATL rejected the proposal of giving the Rams a second-rounder to move up a spot.

Shaw doesn't lie to me. Never. So I have no reason to disbelieve him on this one.

What I learned from him Friday was reported by me Saturday - Rams were still discussing Long or Dorsey, close to call, want to trade down, if they keep the pick, slight edge to Long.

And that's what happened.

The reason the board was tweaked? Simple. Because we had reported that Dorsey was the No. 1 player on the Rams' board (and by quite a gap), they wanted to save face for when they chose Long. After the board was adjusted, they had Dorsey and Long as virtual equals. It was easier to explain the decision to take Long.

Devaney has also made cryptic references to receiving "late information" about players.

I think Pro Football Talk is great. I'm a fan. I have it bookmarked. Never gonna knock those guys. But Shaw didn't draft Long. I suppose it makes for good fodder but it didn't happen that way.

-B

We've been reporting this since the draft (Dorsey was first on their board, and Long fourth, until the tweaking). It was in my Sunday column. Jim Thomas cited it, too. Not exactly new info.

But to repeat - yes they took Long (the lower-rated player) for three reasons. Intangibles; they just loved Long the person. 2, need at DE. And 3, some fear over Dorsey's leg.

-B
If you go back and read the Saturday paper, you'll see that we had this scoped out fairly well before the draft.

- internal debate about Long or Dorsey.

_ board tweaking.

- desire to trade down for right deal.

_ leaning Long.

Between what Jim Thomas wrote and what I wrote, it was all in there.

-B

[Nick]

Shocking, another Pro Football Talk "rumor" that doesn't appear to have any actual merit behind it. I can tell you, I'm floored by this news.

[KoaKoi]

"Bernie" and "rumor" in the same breath? Say it ain't so!

[Rambos]

who cares. When I read this title I was hoping that Shaw was done.

[Bald_81]

Originally Posted by Nick

Shocking, another Pro Football Talk "rumor" that doesn't appear to have any actual merit behind it. I can tell you, I'm floored by this news.

This is the motto for any Chris Long supporter from day one, and is quite hypocritcal in fact. Everyone on here seems to believes the rumour that we were told by Zygmunt to back off of Polomalu in the '03 draft in order to take Kennedy, but this rumour has no merit? Whatever man, I just don't see the sense I guess.

[evil disco man]

Originally Posted by BernieM

I think Pro Football Talk is great. I'm a fan. I have it bookmarked.

No surprise there.

[Tony Soprano]

.
It's a good policy.

Find out who Shaw wants - and take the Other guy!


.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Bald_81

This is the motto for any Chris Long supporter from day one, and is quite hypocritcal in fact. Everyone on here seems to believes the rumour that we were told by Zygmunt to back off of Polomalu in the '03 draft in order to take Kennedy, but this rumour has no merit? Whatever man, I just don't see the sense I guess.

Balzer: "The story has no basis in truth."

Bernie: "But Shaw didn't draft Long. I suppose it makes for good fodder but it didn't happen that way."

...so with two local writers shooting it down as untrue, what about my statement doesn't make sense? What about my statement is hypocritical?

[Ramer]

All I got to say is "What ever"

[r8rh8rmike]

Originally Posted by Bald_81

This is the motto for any Chris Long supporter from day one, and is quite hypocritcal in fact.

Okay, but you are a full fledged Chris Long supporter now, right?

[Goldenfleece]

Originally Posted by Bald_81

This is the motto for any Chris Long supporter from day one, and is quite hypocritcal in fact. Everyone on here seems to believes the rumour that we were told by Zygmunt to back off of Polomalu in the '03 draft in order to take Kennedy, but this rumour has no merit? Whatever man, I just don't see the sense I guess.

Hypocritical means saying one thing while doing another or saying one thing when you really believe another. Here you are suggesting that because some Rams believed one rumor years ago, those who do not believe another rumor now are hypocritical. All off-season we've been hearing about how the team is trying to re-evaluate how it does business. We brought in Softli last season and Devaney this season because we felt that the way we were doing things before wasn't working. We heard that when Devaney arrived he instituted a new prospect grading system. So why would we keep adding more experts to the payroll if the bossman was going to ignore them anyway?

If you're trying to evaluate whether a story is credible or not, you look for other information to back it up. The other information doesn't seem to lend credibility to this rumor.

[rammiser]

Everytime I read something I realize how much Bernie sucks. I'm sure everyone in the front office is prepared to tell the Krispy Kreme king exactly what they will do in the draft. Even if Dorsey was rated higher it doesnt make him the pick. I just dont see Carriker at de. So the Long pick makes much more sense to me. So plow down another dozen Bernie and find some more worthless fodder to report!

[Bald_81]

Originally Posted by Nick

Balzer: "The story has no basis in truth."

Bernie: "But Shaw didn't draft Long. I suppose it makes for good fodder but it didn't happen that way."

...so with two local writers shooting it down as untrue, what about my statement doesn't make sense? What about my statement is hypocritical?

My point was you'll believe whatever you support, much like the notion of many on here. Long was the pick without force from Shaw according to Bernie and Balzer so its true to you. Anything having to do with Dorsey's medical being resolved was untrue because other sources did not support the statement so you take their side, even though Devaney comes out and says it straight. So I guess it's not okay for me to point out the descrepencies in the story since there are others who say it went differently? Okay.

Bernie has also said that Brown would be out for this season, no doubt, and most recently said that Dorsey would be our pick (but he's a local writer, right?). He is just as trustworthy as Florio when it comes to this stuff.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just like I said about the Kennedy/Polomalu situation, had Kennedy been great that story would've never surfaced and even if it did it would've been called false instead of true by everyone on here. That is the point I was trying to get at. Whatever you support is what side you will take, and I am doing that right now as you can plainly see.

[evil disco man]

Originally Posted by Bald_81

Everyone on here seems to believes the rumour that we were told by Zygmunt to back off of Polomalu in the '03 draft in order to take Kennedy, but this rumour has no merit?

Originally Posted by Bald_81

Just like I said about the Kennedy/Polomalu situation, had Kennedy been great that story would've never surfaced and even if it did it would've been called false instead of true by everyone on here.

I haven't even heard that rumor before and I still don't think it's true. The decision was made to pass up Polomalu because the front office didn't agree with spending 1st-round money on the safety position. They put certain priorities towards certain positions concerning the cap. Zygmunt is our cap guy, so I assume he had to be in on that decision.

PFT is a bunch of crap. All they try to do is read between the lines and get lucky every once in a while. They're the gossip tabloids of the NFL. If you want real NFL information, go to someone who has real NFL sources like Howard Balzer or John Clayton.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Bald_81

Long was the pick without force from Shaw according to Bernie and Balzer so its true to you.

Because I've yet to see anything to suggest otherwise, except for a report citing "league sources" on a website that's notorious for being less than completely accurate in the past.

You seem to think I'm believing one side over the other because that's the side I want to believe. That's simply incorrect. I'm believing one side over the other because I see no meaningful evidence behind PFT's story, whereas the two people on the other side have actually asked around the organization about this issue. Furthermore, PFT's account of coaches and scouts all preferring Dorsey simply does not jive with previous reports.

It's a matter of supporting evidence, and there's just not much of it behind the PFT report. Which again, given my experience, isn't abnormal for them.

Originally Posted by Bald_81

Anything having to do with Dorsey's medical being resolved was untrue because other sources did not support the statement so you take their side, even though Devaney comes out and says it straight.

If separate reports by Howard Balzer and Pro Football Weekly never surfaced about multiple team doctors having injury concerns about Dorsey, then I likely wouldn't have had significant concerns about his medical status. But those reports were made, and there never really was anything conclusive to suggest the reports were inaccurate or wrong. At one point you cited a McShay analysis of Dorsey's pro day, and even in that video McShay talked about how Dorsey's medical evaluations were all over the place and remained a mystery.

There was simply a lot out there that put a big shroud of mystery over this issue, and on the other side, very little to actually clear it up. These were significant questions, and what were the answers? Comments from a team official a few weeks before the draft saying they don't have any questions on him? I wasn't the only one who acknowledged at the time that Devaney's comments weren't exactly made in a situation that yielded itself to complete honesty.

Again, it's about evidence, support, and credibility. This PFT report doesn't seem to have much of any of them, which for them is not incredibly abnormal. If something new to the story surfaces, I'll revisit it and examine that new information. Right now, I feel pretty confident about which side to trust, and it's not based on personal preference but rather the cases made by both sides.