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  1. #16
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Oh gosh, I think we could use an addition to eventualy take over at SS, but I wouldn't say they're the worst. Just off the top of my head, I'd take Atogwe and Chavous over Cincy (Williams & Jackson), Atlanta (Crocker & Milloy), whiners (Lewis & Lewis), Detroit (Bullocks & Kennedy), Houston (Brown & Earl), Miami (Bell & Hill), Tampa (Phillips & Allen), KC (Wesley & Page)....

    I just don't think Atogwe and Chavous are the "worst" in the league.
    Chavous is not better than Wesley. Chavous had one good season in 2003. Wesley overall is a better safety.

    Starting safeties for KC this season will be Pollard and Page. You can say they're one of the worst simply because of starting experiecne but there gonna make the presence felt. Playing safety in a cover 2 isnt hard anyways. Theyre both young and love to hit. Page is quick too. Pollard is the next Roy Williams.


  2. #17
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    S - Atogwe sucks.

    [Polamalu is] clearly the best player on [the Steelers'] defense
    Okay, let's take a closer look:

    Polamalu (2006)
    13 games
    76 tackles
    1 sack
    3 interceptions
    7 passes defended
    1 forced fumble
    0 fumble recoveries

    Atogwe (2006)
    16 games
    72 tackles
    1 sack
    3 interceptions
    7 passes defended
    5 forced fumbles
    1 fumble recovery

    Which is the better player? Polamalu, without a doubt.

    But... anyone who says that one is the best player on his defense and the toast of his town, while the other "sucks," doesn't know what he is talking about.

  3. #18
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    OLB - Can Pisa stay healthy? Let's hope so because Chillar is awful. In 11 games last season Pisa recorded only 36 tackles. Not very good. I still think the Rams need to go after Briggs.
    More lack of knowledge here.

    Pisa is the starting WLB. Chillar is not his backup. Rather, Chillar became the starting SLB, but probably will be beat out for that spot by Chris Draft. Chillar would be the first backup at SLB and probably MLB (behind Will Witherspoon). Behind Pisa, the Rams will likely develop Jon Alston.

  4. #19
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Okay, let's take a closer look:

    Polamalu (2006)
    13 games
    76 tackles
    1 sack
    3 interceptions
    7 passes defended
    1 forced fumble
    0 fumble recoveries

    Atogwe (2006)
    16 games
    72 tackles
    1 sack
    3 interceptions
    7 passes defended
    5 forced fumbles
    1 fumble recovery

    Which is the better player? Polamalu, without a doubt.

    But... anyone who says that one is the best player on his defense and the toast of his town, while the other "sucks," doesn't know what he is talking about.
    Polamalu was hurt last season and the season before that he was nominated for def player of the year. theres really no debate here, you need to take the homer glasses off on this one. With Porter gone in PIT, Polamalu is clearly the best def player on that team. Atogwe does suck, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here that thinks that.

  5. #20
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    More lack of knowledge here.

    Pisa is the starting WLB. Chillar is not his backup. Rather, Chillar became the starting SLB, but probably will be beat out for that spot by Chris Draft. Chillar would be the first backup at SLB and probably MLB (behind Will Witherspoon). Behind Pisa, the Rams will likely develop Jon Alston.
    The talent level at that position is still awful.

  6. #21
    bruce4life's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    r u joking??? wesley is better than chavous???? come on man stop smoking the good stuff please...

  7. #22
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce4life View Post
    r u joking??? wesley is better than chavous???? come on man stop smoking the good stuff please...
    Chavous has played in the league for 2 more season than Wesley and Welsey has more INT's. Chavous has around 590tackles and Wesley has around 550. Not much seperation there considering Chavous has played for 2 more seasons. Like I said Wesley had a down season last year. Overall Wesley has been better.

  8. #23
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    Polamalu was hurt last season and the season before that he was nominated for def player of the year. theres really no debate here, you need to take the homer glasses off on this one. With Porter gone in PIT, Polamalu is clearly the best def player on that team. Atogwe does suck, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here that thinks that.
    Guess you didn't read my post too carefully. I never said that Polamalu wasn't a great player. But it seems that in your little world, you're either great or you "suck."

    And, no, I don't think you'll find a lot of people here who think that Atogwe sucks. Rather, I think most would say that he had a promising season last year (his first as a starter) and that we're hopeful he'll continue to develop.

  9. #24
    39thebeast's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    Chavous has played in the league for 2 more season than Wesley and Welsey has more INT's. Chavous has around 590tackles and Wesley has around 550. Not much seperation there considering Chavous has played for 2 more seasons. Like I said Wesley had a down season last year. Overall Wesley has been better.

    so frickin what hes has seemingly better stats. The fact of the matter is chavous had a better season last year and is much better because he makes a bigger impact. You said he wasn't starting next year if he so good and so much better than Chavous who is starter how come hes not starting.

  10. #25
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Now that "Drago" Carriker is going to be playing every position on the line on every down, I guess we don't have to worry about that anymore. Plus we've got two defensive tackles from the second day of the draft for depth!

  11. #26
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by 39thebeast View Post
    so frickin what hes has seemingly better stats. The fact of the matter is chavous had a better season last year and is much better because he makes a bigger impact. You said he wasn't starting next year if he so good and so much better than Chavous who is starter how come hes not starting.
    I never said Wesley was sooo good, I think he sucks. Having that said he's better than Chavous. That just says something about the Rams secondary.

  12. #27
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    I never said Wesley was sooo good, I think he sucks. Having that said he's better than Chavous. That just says something about the Rams secondary.
    No, that's what YOU say about the Rams secondary, which is nothing more than conjecture based on an opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but it certainly doesn't make you right.

    The bottom line here is that last year the Rams secondary was put in a position where they had to try and perform under extreme conditions due to the complete lack of execution and effectiveness by the DL. Any QB, given the time to operate with no pass rush will pick apart ANY secondary, regardless of how good they are. I don't know how many Rams games you watched last year, but I saw them all and felt under the circumstances, the secondary held their own.

    How good they can actually be is still a big question that remains to be answered.

  13. #28
    The Shredder Guest

    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    No, that's what YOU say about the Rams secondary, which is nothing more than conjecture based on an opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but it certainly doesn't make you right.

    The bottom line here is that last year the Rams secondary was put in a position where they had to try and perform under extreme conditions due to the complete lack of execution and effectiveness by the DL. Any QB, given the time to operate with no pass rush will pick apart ANY secondary, regardless of how good they are. I don't know how many Rams games you watched last year, but I saw them all and felt under the circumstances, the secondary held their own.

    How good they can actually be is still a big question that remains to be answered.
    The stats will show they held their own because everyone and their mother knew all you had to do to beat the Rams was to run the football.

  14. #29
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Just the Chiefs knew that to beat the Colts in the playoffs, all they had to do was pound Larry Johnson.

    How did that one work out for you guys?

  15. #30
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    Re: Biggest Weakness on the Team

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shredder View Post
    The stats will show they held their own because everyone and their mother knew all you had to do to beat the Rams was to run the football.
    "All" they had to do was run to beat the Rams.........yet 8 teams didn't. If run was "all" opponents had to do, the Rams would have been 0-16. Oddly enough, it's not that simple. But it's a good thing the Chiefs were so much better on the D. They held teams to a whole 6.2 yards per game less.......what a juggernaut! Since the Chiefs had all of ONE more win than the Rams, are we to assume that "all" a team had to do to beat the Chiefs was pass the ball?

    As for the Wesley / Chavous debate.....
    Quote Originally Posted by shredder
    Chavous has played in the league for 2 more season than Wesley and Welsey has more INT's. Chavous has around 590tackles and Wesley has around 550. Not much seperation there considering Chavous has played for 2 more seasons. Like I said Wesley had a down season last year. Overall Wesley has been better.
    So Wesley (a Free Safety) has more Ints. than Chavous (a Strong Safety)? Wow......what's next?......A DE with more sacks than a DT? If a FS doesn't have more Ints. than a SS, something is seriously wrong. What you left out is while Wesley (29) has more career picks than Chavous (20), Wesley's PDs (27) are no where near Chavous' (42). So as pass defenders, Wesley has got his hands on 56 passes compared to Chavous with 62. Again, that's a SS defending the pass better than a FS.

    Now for tackles....as you stated Wesley has 554 tackles over 7 seasons (79 per season), and Chavous has 594 over 9 seasons (66 per season). What you didn't state is most of that difference relates to ancient history. Wesley came out of the gate with 2 strong seasons (85.5 tackles per season) to start his career. Chavous didn't start his career as fast (33.5 tackles per season). But we're talking about 1998-2001. That has no bearing whatsoever on who the better player is now. Look at the last three seasons.....Chavous (79) and Wesley (71.7). How about the past two.....Chavous (78.5) and Wesley (74.5). Or last season....Chavous (86) and Wesley (67). With the exception of fans stuck in 2003, nobody can say Wesley is better than Chavous.

    But let's compare apples (FS) to apples (FS)......

    Wesley - 67 tackles, 0 sacks, 3 Ints., 4 PDs, 2 FFs, 0 FRs
    Atogwe - 72 tackles, 1 sacks, 3 Ints., 7 PDs, 5 FFs, 1 FRs

    Wesley can't even outperform a first year starter.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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