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Thread: Bradford

  1. #46
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    Re: Bradford

    One thing is certain... Bradford is going to have his work cut out for him the rest of the way.

    He will be facing teams with Top 10 pass defenses in 6 of the final 9 games (New England, Buffalo and Tampa are the exceptions).


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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    mh-i comparing Bulger to Sam is nuts on two levels. One the players around Bulger where HOF type. Two the scheme was all about putting up big numbers.
    My comparrison only had to do with being able to make the passes and nothing to do with the scheme either plays or played in. If you had one of those QB competitions where the QBs throw the ball at targets and so on like you used to see at the Pro Bowl or whatever between Bulger and Bradford I believe that Bulger would have smoked him. Bulger had a way better arm and was far more accurate on the longer throws. I don't thinks that's debatable is it?

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    My comparrison only had to do with being able to make the passes and nothing to do with the scheme either plays or played in. If you had one of those QB competitions where the QBs throw the ball at targets and so on like you used to see at the Pro Bowl or whatever between Bulger and Bradford I believe that Bulger would have smoked him. Bulger had a way better arm and was far more accurate on the longer throws. I don't thinks that's debatable is it?
    OK so we are on the same page you are just looking at how Bradford throws the ball. But in games where the O line and the receivers have a huge impact on the results. It's hard to sell me on the fact Sam cannot make all the throws and or Bulger would do better.

    Lets leave it up to what the best pro personnel scouts in the game and what they said about Sam when he was just throwing the ball, not in a game. Kinda of you want to see.

    Longtime scout Gil Brandt of NFL.com said, “Sam Bradford’s workout Monday in front of representatives for all 32 NFL teams at Oklahoma’s pro day almost left me speechless. And that’s saying something.” Brandt, who has the respect of everyone in the NFL, even went so far as to compare Bradford’s workout with that of Troy Aikman’s when the former Cowboy was coming out of college.

    Big words, right? Of course they are, but that’s how the entire league reacted and how the entire league thinks about Bradford right now. Forget the fact that this workout was scripted or that Bradford threw passes to his own receivers in short and T-shirts because the NFL visitors got what they asked for. In their minds, he's a legit No. 1.
    I don't thinks that's debatable is it? I watched those and it was always a joke when Bulger and Hasselbeck would see which one could air it out for 50 yards.

    By the way this has nothing to do with playing QB in the NFL IMO.
    Last edited by Rambos; -10-22-2012 at 02:42 PM.

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    Re: Bradford

    I don't think Bradford will ever be elite. Physically he has the tools, the biggest issue I have had with Bradford is in the big moments he comes up small. Blame the talent around him if you want, but I'm talking about that little spark or glimmer that you see in others. That confidence/arrogance that the elite have in the big moments, i haven't seen it from him. In the redzone, he makes bad throws or takes a sack. 3rd down, he throws incompletions. It seems he somewhat panics in those moments. He can be a good QB (as good a Rivers maybe who I don't consider elite for the same reasons), but it appears he lacks the "it" factor. Forget stats, can anyone tell me when they have seen him come up big in the big moments? Also, do you have confidence in him during those moments?

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I don't think Bradford will ever be elite. Physically he has the tools, the biggest issue I have had with Bradford is in the big moments he comes up small. Blame the talent around him if you want, but I'm talking about that little spark or glimmer that you see in others. That confidence/arrogance that the elite have in the big moments, i haven't seen it from him. In the redzone, he makes bad throws or takes a sack. 3rd down, he throws incompletions. It seems he somewhat panics in those moments. He can be a good QB (as good a Rivers maybe who I don't consider elite for the same reasons), but it appears he lacks the "it" factor. Forget stats, can anyone tell me when they have seen him come up big in the big moments? Also, do you have confidence in him during those moments?
    None what so ever. And for somebody who coming out of college was praised as an amazing decision maker and an unbelievably accurate passer, I've yet to see that translate 100%. He misses a lot of reads, and has a ton of errant balls.


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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    Forget stats, can anyone tell me when they have seen him come up big in the big moments? Also, do you have confidence in him during those moments?
    He came up pretty big when the Rams fell behind Washington 21-6, throwing two TD's and leading another FG drive to put the Rams up 23-22, then throwing a third TD when the Rams were down 28-23 late in the third quarter, leading the team to a 31-28 victory. I have complete confidence in Bradford in big moments, and IMO, he definitely has the "it" factor.

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I don't think Bradford will ever be elite. Physically he has the tools, the biggest issue I have had with Bradford is in the big moments he comes up small. Blame the talent around him if you want, but I'm talking about that little spark or glimmer that you see in others. That confidence/arrogance that the elite have in the big moments, i haven't seen it from him. In the redzone, he makes bad throws or takes a sack. 3rd down, he throws incompletions. It seems he somewhat panics in those moments. He can be a good QB (as good a Rivers maybe who I don't consider elite for the same reasons), but it appears he lacks the "it" factor. Forget stats, can anyone tell me when they have seen him come up big in the big moments? Also, do you have confidence in him during those moments?
    I'm not willing to "forget stats" and substitute them with your generalizations.

    Here are a few pertinent numbers for you:

    Bradford's 2012 passer rating in various situations:

    Third/fourth down and 9+ yards to go: 107.8
    Third and 11+ to go: 137.5
    In the Fourth Quarter: 102.6
    In the Fourth Quarter, game w/in 7 points (+ or -): 114.2
    Attempts 31-40 (in a game): 101.7
    When game is tied: 112.3

    Now, it is true that Sam's passer rating in the Red Zone is very poor (62.5), but given all the other stats showing that Sam, in fact, has excelled in "clutch" situations, I think that overall your analysis is way off.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -10-22-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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  8. #53
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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I'm not willing to "forget stats" and substitute them with your generalizations.

    Here are a few pertinent numbers for you:

    Bradford's 2012 passer rating in various situations:

    Third/fourth down and 9+ yards to go: 107.8
    Third and 11+ to go: 137.5
    In the Fourth Quarter: 102.6
    In the Fourth Quarter, game w/in 7 points (+ or -): 114.2
    Attempts 31-40 (in a game): 101.7
    When game is tied: 112.3

    Now, it is true that Sam's passer rating in the Red Zone is very poor (62.5), but given all the other stats showing that Sam, in fact, has excelled in "clutch" situations, I think that overall your analysis is way off.
    The only reason so many of those numbers are so high is because on a 3rd and 11 all Sam would do is dump it off on a drag route to Gibby for 4 yards, and we all know it. Those numbers are completely skewed whether you want to admit it or not.

    Care to give us the only stat you seemed to "forget". How many comeback wins in the 4th Q does Sam Bradford have? 1? 2? in his 3 year career? .... Yeah, sounds a little too "clutch" to me..
    Last edited by sosa39rams; -10-22-2012 at 06:17 PM.


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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Care to give us the only stat you seemed to "forget". How many comeback wins in the 4th Q does Sam Bradford have? 1? 2? .... Yeah, sounds a little to "clutch" too me..
    Let's see:

    In two games, the Rams lead throughout the 4th Quarter, so no comeback was needed (Seattle, Arizona).

    In two games, the Rams lost going away (Chicago, Green Bay).

    In one game (Dolphins), Sam lead the Rams to a TD that cut the lead from 17-6 to 17-14 (including a 2 point conversion), and then lead the Rams into FG range before getting sacked (and, trust me, as I was there - he had no chance on that play), resulting in a 66 yard failed attempt to tie.

    In the other two games (Detroit, Washington), Sam lead the Rams to 4th Quarter comebacks. Unfortunately, in one of the two games (Detroit), the defense faltered and allowed a game winning score on the last play.

    So, again... what's your point?

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Let's see:

    In two games, the Rams lead throughout the 4th Quarter, so no comeback was needed (Seattle, Arizona).

    In two games, the Rams lost going away (Chicago, Green Bay).

    In one game (Dolphins), Sam lead the Rams to a TD that cut the lead from 17-6 to 17-14 (including a 2 point conversion), and then lead the Rams into FG range before getting sacked (and, trust me, as I was there - he had no chance on that play), resulting in a 66 yard failed attempt to tie.

    In the other two games (Detroit, Washington), Sam lead the Rams to 4th Quarter comebacks. Unfortunately, in one of the two games (Detroit), the defense faltered and allowed a game winning score on the last play.

    So, again... what's your point?
    So in 3 years, 3 career comeback wins is defined as "clutch", my god, what has this game come to?

    When the Rams are behind, here are Sam Bradford's stats the past 3 years.

    2012: 64.3% completion, 1,053 yards, 4 TD's, 5 INT's.
    2011: 52.9% completion, 1,566 yards, 5 TD's, 4 INT's.
    2010: 55.2% completion, 1,494 yards, 6 TD's, 11 INT's.

    Bradford in 3 years has 1 comeback victory in 2010 against the *****, 1 comeback victory in 2011 against the Browns, and 1 in 2012 against the Redskins.

    That amounts to 3 comeback victories in 3 years.. Yeah, that totally just SCREAMS CLUTCH!


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    Re: Bradford

    So to sum up, Bradford is expected to play lights out, regardless of the forces working against him. Is that about right?

    When Bradford gets consistency from his receivers, linemen, and running game, but remains inconsistent himself, THEN I'll worry about him.
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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I'm not willing to "forget stats" and substitute them with your generalizations.

    Here are a few pertinent numbers for you:

    Bradford's 2012 passer rating in various situations:

    Third/fourth down and 9+ yards to go: 107.8
    Third and 11+ to go: 137.5
    In the Fourth Quarter: 102.6
    In the Fourth Quarter, game w/in 7 points (+ or -): 114.2
    Attempts 31-40 (in a game): 101.7
    When game is tied: 112.3

    Now, it is true that Sam's passer rating in the Red Zone is very poor (62.5), but given all the other stats showing that Sam, in fact, has excelled in "clutch" situations, I think that overall your analysis is way off.

    I'm not making generalizations, I stating what I've seen. Sosa summed it pretty nicely. The reason I didn't want to go to stats, is because numbers don't tell the whole story. Case in point, according to the "stats" we beat the Dolphins. We lost because made mistakes in key moments. Bradford in key moments doesn't come through.Phillip Rivers numbers look better than Big Ben, but who would you take? Again, I think Bradford is talented. I think he can be a very good QB much like Phillip Rivers. I just think we need someone else on the team to be that elite superstar.

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    That amounts to 3 comeback victories in 3 years.. Yeah, that totally just SCREAMS CLUTCH!
    I only provided this year's examples, but that's not the point.

    How many opportunities did Bradford have last year to lead comebacks? He was hurt most of the year, and the Rams were often out of games by the end of the 3rd Quarter. As a rookie... well, he had a great rookie season for a QB, so I'm not even going there.

    You can believe what you want, but the numbers don't lie. Sam's situational stats are excellent this year. Given this fact, his Red Zone numbers should be explored further and alternate reasons (apart from Sam's alleged failings) must be considered (i.e. play calling, poor route running, poor pass protection) in evaluating the problem.

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I'm not making generalizations, I stating what I've seen. Sosa summed it pretty nicely. The reason I didn't want to go to stats, is because numbers don't tell the whole story. Case in point, according to the "stats" we beat the Dolphins. We lost because made mistakes in key moments. Bradford in key moments doesn't come through.Phillip Rivers numbers look better than Big Ben, but who would you take? Again, I think Bradford is talented. I think he can be a very good QB much like Phillip Rivers. I just think we need someone else on the team to be that elite superstar.
    I don't really care much for labels like "elite superstar." Give Sam a couple of Pro Bowl players on the O line and a true No. 1 WR, and he'll be what I want him to be: a playoff QB.

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    Re: Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    So to sum up, Bradford is expected to play lights out, regardless of the forces working against him. Is that about right?

    When Bradford gets consistency from his receivers, linemen, and running game, but remains inconsistent himself, THEN I'll worry about him.
    Well, guess what Mike? That'll never happen. I can sit here and wait all day, trust me. Just please go find me a QB with "consistency from WR's, lineman, and a running game" but suck. This isn't a perfect world. No team will ever be terrific all around game in and game out, and yet have a QB that can't produce, it just doesn't work like that.

    I'm not ragging Sam. I think with a great offensive line he can be a very good player. He has minimal pocket presence, and RARELY ever climbs the pocket or moves around. He's getting a little bit better, but he's been TERRIBLE with that to say the least. When we get a dominant offensive line, he'll be great. He needs time to go through his reads, and space to throw.


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