Is this Bradford's last game with excuses??

[39WillRunYaOva]

I have just as much faith as the next man in Snead/Fish that they will upgrade the offensive talent around Bradford but lets let them do it before we start making statements like this.Im not making excuses for Bradford but i thought this season they would really upgrade the offensive talent,and while it got better not the jump i was expecting.lets just say for ****s and giggles if pretty much most of the same offensive weapons come back what will you say then??Basically what im getting at is we are fans sometimes what we think will be done isnt what they see because they see the big picture financial and product.As fans we want all the good FA's and this guy that guy but the FO takes into account alot more than we do so lets just wait before we start assuming things about what moves will be made.

[Curly Horns]

This is why discussions often deteriorate.

If an NFL player gets his hands on the ball, it should be caught. I guess "dumb decision" is in the eye of the beholder. Say what you will, but the way I saw it, Bradford got no help on that final series.

And this is the kind of one-way, I'm right and you're wrong analysis that leads to statements that deteriorate point-counter point discussions!

[Fortuninerhater]

So when evaluating a QB we should only look at the QB rating?

Thats it nothing more? I do not believe that is the fair or correct way to evaluate a performance. I've seen Bradford have poor days in the office but his QB rating was high due to the Rams having to play catch up and he put up big numbers. This has or never will be a good way to evauate a QB performance just alone.

No sir, it is not the end all to evaluating QBs. But it does give you an idea of how a guy is playing. Obviously, the better he plays the higher the rating.

[Rambos]

My facts wrong?

The only fact I talked about was the fact that Sam Bradford managed a 74.7 QB rating on a day where he was well protected, and the fact that Russell Wilson managed a 136.3 in a game where he was constantly harrassed and sacked 6 times.

I couldn't care less what any other QB did in that stadium. That is not my concern, nor should it be for any Rams fan.

It only serves your purpose of having an excuse for Sam Bradford. Typical of an apologist.

This is too typical of a Sam Bradford performance, which is far below elite, and the reason why he gets so much criticism.

When you said far below elite you meant not how the elite QBs have done in that environment?

Wilson kind of has an advantage in that stadium being the home teams QB. Wilson was not so elite when we played them at home.

So I guess when campaigning Sam you only used the good days these young QB have right?

Gone is the electric chemistry Wilson showed with his targets in August. He was 17-of-25 passing for just 160 yards with no touchdowns Sunday.

Of course you don't care how other QB have played in that stadium, not one has won a game there all year. It's called a huge home field advantage. It would take some common sense to factor that into your argument.

[r8rh8rmike]

And this is the kind of one-way, I'm right and you're wrong analysis that leads to statements that deteriorate point-counter point discussions!

You're equating what I said to the hyperbole you decided to interject? Interesting that you can somehow get "one-way" and "I'm right and you're wrong" out of "eye of the beholder" and "the way I saw it".

Let me ask you something. I regularly point out that Bradford makes mistakes and needs to get more consistent. Can you provide a quote where you have had anything good to say about Bradford? Surely there must be at least one?

[Curly Horns]

You're equating what I said to the hyperbole you decided to interject? Interesting that you can somehow get "one-way" and "I'm right and you're wrong" out of "eye of the beholder" and "the way I saw it".

LOL - well it started out ok. You provided a point then I provided a counter point. After that you came up with the "hands on a ball should be caught"

That sounds one-way to me.

It reads like this to me "A receiver basically has to catch anything he can touch yet the QB is not accountable for putting the ball where it's not only easy to catch but also catch in stride. Also you don't want passes in the middle of the field under tight coverage with precious seconds remaining. All things that I pointed out in my original counter point, yet you simply come back with "hands on the ball should be caught and dumb decision is in the eye of the beholder. Whereas you had no counter point on why it was a smart decision or why the QB is not accountable for throwing an easy to catch ball. That's why I added the hype and it still seems appropriate since you have not addressed why those passes were not only smart decisions but easy to catch in stride in the case of the pass to Kendricks.

Let me ask you something. I regularly point out that Bradford makes mistakes and needs to get more consistent. Can you provide a quote where you have had anything good to say about Bradford? Surely there must be at least one?

Well, let me say this. You did not provide a quote so why should I take the time to dig one up? But hey, I know you've made those points and I think you know I've said good things about Sam. I've said in the past that I thought the Rams should draft Sam. I referred to him as a phenom (I know that's really too positive coming from such a negative guy like me). I've stated several times that I like the kid as a player. I like his efforts on and off the field at improving his game. He's got a good attitude and he says the right things. And to top it off I bought his jersey. That means something considering I have only felt the need to spend money on two other jersey's. But to be fair I would like to have a Bruce, Warner, and Falk jersey as well.

Now

Is Sam the leader of this team? I don't know. Will he ever be elite? I don't know but I hope so.

I rarely get involved with these Bradford topics. They are simply too volatile and it generally takes too much time to create a proper level of understanding. You know that because I have told you so in private. Also, people are generally too stubborn to go point counter point. The discussion always breaks down. You ask a question and the other guy won't answer it. It is often skated around like a politician skates around a question.

The QB is the lead playmaker, He simply has to make plays when the opportunities are there. And he absolutely has to make them when the game is in the waning stages. This is all based on making smart decisions in split seconds. It's just the nature of the position. He gets the glory when he does it and gets the brunt of the blame when he does not.

Someone in this thread ( I think it was tomahawk) stated they had an issue when people don't point out the good things along with the bad that Bradford does during a game. First off, I suspect that is because people expect the QB to make plays when the opportunities are there. That is generally why they pay them so well. Secondly it does not just happen to Bradford.

I recall a few weeks back when Jenkins had his two pick six game against AZ. Several people here did not want to give him praise for basically making the plays that won the game. Instead they wanted to cut him down by mentioning all the bad things he does. One person went so far as to basically suggest that he did not really make either play because the ball was thrown right to him.

[Fortuninerhater]

When you said far below elite you meant not how the elite QBs have done in that environment?

Wilson kind of has an advantage in that stadium being the home teams QB. Wilson was not so elite when we played them at home.

So I guess when campaigning Sam you only used the good days these young QB have right?



Of course you don't care how other QB have played in that stadium, not one has won a game there all year. It's called a huge home field advantage. It would take some common sense to factor that into your argument.

When I said "far below elite", I was reffering to a typical Sam Bradford performance in general. Doesn't matter where he plays. And I wasn't comparing him to any other visiting QB either, because this is not about any other QB. It's about Sam Bradford.

And apparently you've confused that final quote with one of mine, because I don't recognize it.

But you are correct when you say that I don't care what any other QB has done in that stadium.

Only Sam Bradford.

[r8rh8rmike]

Whereas you had no counter point on why it was a smart decision or why the QB is not accountable for throwing an easy to catch ball. That's why I added the hype and it still seems appropriate since you have not addressed why those passes were not only smart decisions but easy to catch in stride in the case of the pass to Kendricks.

IMO, if a receiver gets two hands on the ball, be it low, high, behind, or in front, he should catch it. The throw to Kendricks was low, but I still think it was catchable, and that he should have made it. No NFL QB is always on target, but good receivers make catches when the opportunity is there. For the most part, Bradford is usually on target, wouldn't you agree? I'd be willing to bet both Kendricks and Amendola would say they should have made the catches on that last series. As far as those passes being smart decisions, I think he was taking what the defense was giving him. Up to those two drops, he was doing a masterful job moving the offense down the field.

I'll tell you this, it sure would be nice to be having this discussion if those catches were made. I know you don't think they would have made a difference, but I do. Too bad we'll never know.

As far as the hyperbole, I just don't think it was necessary, and serves no purpose but to diminish the discussion. That's just the way I see it.

[macrammer]

When I said "far below elite", I was reffering to a typical Sam Bradford performance in general. Doesn't matter where he plays. And I wasn't comparing him to any other QB either, because this is not about any other QB. It's about Sam Bradford.

And apparently you've confused that final quote with one of mine, because I don't recognize it.

But you are correct when you say that I don't care what any other QB has done in that stadium.



Only Sam Bradford.

I believe the loss came down to just a few plays yesterday.

1) the wilson escape of the 3rd down sack whereby he completed that ugly 44 yards pass that eventually led to the Hawks go ahead TD
2) Bradford not throwing to Kendrick in end zone and we settled for a FG
3) The overthrow to wide open amendola on 3rd down that woul dhave put us into Fg range


Rams played the Hawks tough.....tougher then most teams. Bradford had a good not great game and certainly did not truly factor into the loss BUT had he doen just the two things mentioned above, I would think Rams would have stood much better chance to pull out victory. In most cases, he had plenty of time and for the second week in a row, he was not sacked. Harrassed at times, yes, but not sacked. The misfire to wide open Amendola was with all of the time in the world. Not seeing Kendricks open.....not sure why that was. And that Seahawks QB is elusive.....both him the Whiner guy have that ability and Rams have not been great historically at containing that so something for the staff to work on in offseason given the competition in our division.

[macrammer]

I have yet to see a QB in the NFL not make bad throws. When you say he's not accurate I look at his completion percentage. He finished 59.5 compared that to Tom Brady 63 percent. It's not like Sam is 15% less then the best in the NFL. He's less then 5%.

Yeah he missed Amendola but he hit Pettis and Pettis dropped it and thats football it happens. He also throw a perfect ball to Matthew Mulligan. Fans can focus on the bad passes I get that but you can't discount the good passes in the processes to say the guy is inconsistent.







We might not have needed a TD on the last drive if JL makes the sack right? We probably win with a FG and it's all good.

To be fair, please point out where I said Sam is not accurate as you lay out. I did state he had a few KEY misfirs yesterday but that is different then saying he in not accurate. And you are correct, all QB's make bad throws. But GREAT QB's find a way to win a game when it is on the line. I look forward to the day when we have that kind of QB in our beloved number 8.

The 5% you mention is but one snapshot of Sam. I believe he is ranked in around 20th in NFL re: passer rating.

IMO, he was not even the best QB in the NFC West this year. Most likely top 15 ish......I expect more.



Inconsistency is about not performing at a consistent level. Flashes of brilliance coupled with stretches of "good" intertwined with mediocrity = inconsistency in my opinion.

[Curly Horns]

IMO, if a receiver gets two hands on the ball, be it low, high, behind, or in front, he should catch it. The throw to Kendricks was low, but I still think it was catchable, and that he should have made it. No NFL QB is always on target, but good receivers make catches when the opportunity is there.

I still think this goes both ways. Yes, generally a receiver should catch a ball if he gets two hands on it. I still don't like the throw to Kendricks. Yes he should have caught it but even if he did it would have been a minimal gain and consumed valuable seconds. Not much reward for that. He needed to lead Kendricks up the field and towards the sidelines. This would have given Kendricks an opportunity to catch the ball in stride and gain more yards and/or get out of bounds. Yes, good receivers make catches when the opportunity is there but the same can be said about good QB's making ideal throws when the opportunity is there. So, I don't totally understand that. I don't think we want to argue whether Amendola, Bradford and Kendricks are good players, or do we?

For the most part, Bradford is usually on target, wouldn't you agree?

He probably has a good completion percentage without considering drops. The thing I want to see is him get better at throwing passes so his receivers can catch them in stride which creates more opportunity for run after the catch. Many times his receivers have made spectacular one handed grabs. And how many times have we seen Amendola laying out to catch a pass? Sam needs to get better at hitting them in stride.

I'd be willing to bet both Kendricks and Amendola would say they should have made the catches on that last series.

Of course they would. You'd win that bet.

As far as those passes being smart decisions, I think he was taking what the defense was giving him.

I agree but was he getting everything out of what they were giving him? We won't know for certain until we see visual evidence of the entire field. And I know the opportunity was there to get more out of the previously mentioned pass to Kendricks.

Up to those two drops, he was doing a masterful job moving the offense down the field.

Well, he was moving them. I don't know that I'd go as far as calling it masterful. They gained about 50 yards from the original LOS and 25 of those yards were on a PI call and that pass was off target. The short scamper on 4th down was impressive. The next series was hideous, IMO.

I'll tell you this, it sure would be nice to be having this discussion if those catches were made. I know you don't think they would have made a difference, but I do. Too bad we'll never know.

You're right we will never know for sure but adding up the two short passes (if complete) sandwiched between the blitz breakdown I believe it still would have been 4th down. Keep in mind we had less than a minute to work with at the beginning of that series and we needed a TD to tie. The best opportunity (not to mention the 4th down play) to get a bigger gain and/or get out of bounds on that series was the pass play to Kendricks. Now the 4th down play also looks to me as a missed opportunity. Sherman who Sam apparently did not see - leaves his man to the outside because he sees Sam locked onto Pettis. Also another possible opportunity over to the left side the TE is beating his man to the end zone.

I would like to add that some of this might go on the playcalling during that final series. I'm not sure it was the best in that situation.

As far as the hyperbole, I just don't think it was necessary, and serves no purpose but to diminish the discussion. That's just the way I see it.

Well I apologize. However, as I explained, I felt you were cutting off the discussion with your short response that really did not address my points. I don't like that, especially after I take the time to type them. I'm not a writer or a damn typist so I do spend quite a bit of time getting this banter out. I don't think your short response served any purpose either. And that's just the way I see it. However, I do apologize!

[Rambos]

To be fair, please point out where I said Sam is not accurate as you lay out. I did state he had a few KEY misfirs yesterday but that is different then saying he in not accurate. And you are correct, all QB's make bad throws. But GREAT QB's find a way to win a game when it is on the line. I look forward to the day when we have that kind of QB in our beloved number 8.

The 5% you mention is but one snapshot of Sam. I believe he is ranked in around 20th in NFL re: passer rating.

IMO, he was not even the best QB in the NFC West this year. Most likely top 15 ish......I expect more.



Inconsistency is about not performing at a consistent level. Flashes of brilliance coupled with stretches of "good" intertwined with mediocrity = inconsistency in my opinion.

what can you say about any areas or throws that hindered us yesterday and were directly related to Sam and his penchant for preceived inconsistency?

If you are saying what I think you are, you are saying he is inconsistent. I brought up not a snap shot of one game or a few passes but his 2012 season and how his pass completion percentage compares to Brady. You have to have a bench mark right? If I just looked at one game you could right that off as a bad or good game. If a QB is inconsistent I assume it has to be in his ability to complete passes.

The 5% is the difference from his completion percentage and Brady this year not much.

But GREAT QB's find a way to win a game when it is on the line

.

As much as I support Bradford he's not great... Only time will tell if he will becomes one of the great ones they are few and far between.

At the start of the year I would say we have the best QB in the NFC west... not sure that is a fact now that changes have been made on other teams. That being said, one year or in one case a half of a season does not guarantee they will not have any setbacks, only time will tell.

[r8rh8rmike]

Well I apologize. However, as I explained, I felt you were cutting off the discussion with your short response that really did not address my points. I don't like that, especially after I take the time to type them. I'm not a writer or a damn typist so I do spend quite a bit of time getting this banter out. I don't think your short response served any purpose either. And that's just the way I see it. However, I do apologize!

Fair enough. I'm point, counter pointed out.

[Curly Horns]

Fair enough. I'm point, counter pointed out.

Yeah, I just want to bring one more thing up that we have talked about.

Looking at the past SB champions I think it is more than just a coincidence that very few times over it's entire history has a team won the game without what is considered an elite QB at the helm. It can be done but history shows it's not very likely.

This next season, I'm hoping like all Rams fans that Sam jumps his play up to the next level. Let's improve the protection and skill positions and see what he can do.

[r8rh8rmike]

Yeah, I just want to bring one more thing up that we have talked about.

Looking at the past SB champions I think it is more than just a coincidence that very few times over it's entire history has a team won the game without what is considered an elite QB at the helm. It can be done but history shows it's not very likely.

This next season, I'm hoping like all Rams fans that Sam jumps his play up to the next level. Let's improve the protection and skill positions and see what he can do.

Can't argue with any of that.