Bruce released - Page 11

**Nick** · #**151** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. He just signed that contract about a year ago. It was specifically restructured to help the team when he signed it. You're not telling me the front office didn't have the foresight to look a whole year into the future?

It's actually been two years since that contract was signed - which means since then they've agreed to deals with Bulger, Little, Pisa, Bennett, etc. Meaning a lot has happened in the meantime. That's probably why the Rams structured Bruce's contract so that his largest salary figure was in the first year of the new deal, but as it turned out, the $5 million cap cost in '08 was too much. The Rams have paid Isaac $10 million over the last two seasons and were prepared to pay him another $3 this year. That's still a lot of money.

It would have been ideal to find a way to pay Bruce the full $5 million without taking the full cap hit for it, but Bruce was in the final year of the deal, so they couldn't spread anything else out. Ultimately the Rams now have $19 million in cap space, but when you're competing in a weak market against other teams with $30-40 million in space, our cushion really is still not a whole lot. The Rams will likely need at least $5 million of it to sign their rookies, too.

I keep going back to the Saunders situation. If Al Saunders isn't going to come out and make a strong push about needing Ike in '08, how are the Rams going to justify that price tag? We can deny it all we want to, but football in this day and age is primarily a business first. That doesn't make a tough pill any easier to swallow, but that's simply how professional football works and will work for the foreseeable future.

*BM_Face* · #**152** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

It sucks to lose Bruce, no matter how it gets spun. I only hope he doesn't end up in the NFC West where he would shred our secondary. Sad, sad news.

*moklerman* · #**153** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Well, as much as I liked the Saunders signing, I can't really say his word is gospel. Did Washington every do anything while he was there? Did KC ever have a WR worth jack-crap that he had a hand in signing?

The only question that has to be asked is this: Will the $2 million make or break the Rams in '08?

*PeoriaRam* · #**154** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by laram0

Never say never....remember what happened from the 98' season to the 99' season.

This team is not going to be able to replicate the Faulk trade, or completely revamp the offense in the manner that is needed.

**Nick** · #**155** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Well, as much as I liked the Saunders signing, I can't really say his word is gospel. Did Washington every do anything while he was there? Did KC ever have a WR worth jack-crap that he had a hand in signing?

The point is, as the offensive coordinator, he probably knows what he needs/wants to effectively run his system. People keep using Saunders' offense as a reason to keep Bruce, but if Saunders isn't going to campaign to keep Isaac, then it brings up questions as to how good of a fit Bruce still is in that system. And when you start questioning how good a fit a guy is in the system, it becomes harder and harder to justify a big paycheck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

The only question that has to be asked is this: Will the $2 million make or break the Rams in '08?

It's impossible to say at this point.

*moklerman* · #**156** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

2 million out of 118 million? C'mon, now.

Also, if Saunders can't find a way to use Isaac Bruce, he(Saunders) isn't worth having.

Barring injury, I guarentee Bruce will outperform Bennett(again) and with Holt's knee, he may even outperform him. If he goes to SF as the go to guy, which is a likely scenario in a Martz first year situation, he'll put up 1,200 and 8 td's and be a top 10 receiver. Easy.

I don't give the Rams any consideration for making a smart or logical business move. The just gave Bennett $30 million and he was coming off two consecutive seasons of less than 740 yards. How can that be a case of not knowing the numbers before signing him? He runs poor routes, has questionable hands and is slow. In any rationale comparison, Bruce is better than him across the board.

So, if the Rams have to eat $2 million to make Isaac Bruce happy, just do it.

*Rambos* · #**157** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Barring injury, I guarentee Bruce will outperform Bennett(again) and with Holt's knee, he may even outperform him. If he goes to SF as the go to guy, which is a likely scenario in a Martz first year situation, he'll put up 1,200 and 8 td's and be a top 10 receiver. Easy.

The whiners don't have a QB that can get it done.

**Nick** · #**158** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

2 million out of 118 million? C'mon, now.

It can be spun a number of ways. For instance, the additional $2 million is nearly double what the Rams were willing to pay for him. Keeping Bruce at his previous price would have put us around $14 million in cap space - $9 million or less when rookie contracts are factored in. A $2 million savings makes it around $11 million. Every dollar counts, especially when you're 3-13.

You see it from the perspective of Bruce and his agent. I suspect the team saw it from the perspective of how it affects them and their cap situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Also, if Saunders can't find a way to use Isaac Bruce, he(Saunders) isn't worth having.

But that's not what I said. I said that when you start questioning how good a fit a guy is in the system - not that he can't be used at all but rather how well he fits in with what you're doing - it becomes harder and harder to justify a big paycheck.

The Rams obviously thought they could use Bruce since they were willing to pay him $3 million. But it seemed they felt $5 million was too much to pay for a guy that the OC isn't going to come out and say is a must in his scheme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Barring injury, I guarentee Bruce will outperform Bennett(again) and with Holt's knee, he may even outperform him. If he goes to SF as the go to guy, which is a likely scenario in a Martz first year situation, he'll put up 1,200 and 8 td's and be a top 10 receiver. Easy.

Well, we'll see where he goes and come back in a year to find out if you're right. I would assume that if he goes to San Fran, he'd be the #1 receiver there. So I would expect him to outperform Bennett, the #2 guy here.

*moklerman* · #**159** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Well, Bruce already doubled up on Bennett last year so that's not really much of a statement on my part.

I just don't see how $2 million is going to be the lynch pin to the Rams '08 campaign and I'm not sure how much can really be read into Saunders non comments. All we're really seeing is a football team being run by bean counters and lawyers.

*moklerman* · #**160** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

The whiners don't have a QB that can get it done.

J.T. O'Sullivan has definitely got the arm to do it. Shaun Hill's a good looking prospect too. Smith will be gone after this year or next.

*ramsbruce* · #**161** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

It can be spun a number of ways. For instance, the additional $2 million is nearly double what the Rams were willing to pay for him. Keeping Bruce at his previous price would have put us around $14 million in cap space - $9 million or less when rookie contracts are factored in. A $2 million savings makes it around $11 million. Every dollar counts, especially when you're 3-13.

You see it from the perspective of Bruce and his agent. I suspect the team saw it from the perspective of how it affects them and their cap situation.

I'm actually looking at it from the team and Bruce's perspective. The team is making a mistake, and Bruce is worth the 5 mil. If I didn't think he was worth the 5 mil no matter how much I like him I would say goodbye. So now we have Holt, Bennett and nothing. I'm not even sure I see the Rams signing a free agent WR and I don't care much for who's out there anyways. So when Bennett goes down, or he can't learn the playbook again, or Holt's knee flares up we are left with ummm ya nobody. Bad plan.

We aren't getting Moss, Stallworth's hamstrings scare me, Dev Henderson has bad hands, and from talking to a buddy of mine who is an avid Bears fan he can't wait to get rid of Berrian because he drops balls, so I'm not sold on him. So who else is there? Out of those names Stallworth seems like the best fit, but are we getting him for 5 mil? I don't think so, I think he will command more than that.

**Nick** · #**162** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by moklerman

Well, Bruce already doubled up on Bennett last year so that's not really much of a statement on my part.

It's also not entirely unexpected for a starting wide receiver to out-perform a slot receiver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramsbruce

Bruce is worth the 5 mil.

We might have to simply agree to disagree here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramsbruce

I'm not even sure I see the Rams signing a free agent WR and I don't care much for who's out there anyways. So when Bennett goes down, or he can't learn the playbook again, or Holt's knee flares up we are left with ummm ya nobody. Bad plan.

Well yes, obviously not adding anyone would be a bad plan. However I don't think that's the Rams' plan. We'll have to wait and see what they do.

*Mooselini* · #**163** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Well yes, obviously not adding anyone would be a bad plan. However I don't think that's the Rams' plan. We'll have to wait and see what they do.

Well, I know we have to wait, but we cant wait too long.

*ramsbruce* · #**164** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

We might have to simply agree to disagree here.

Yep we will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Well yes, obviously not adding anyone would be a bad plan. However I don't think that's the Rams' plan. We'll have to wait and see what they do.

I don't know Nick. I see the Rams thinking they messed up with Bennett so now they have to prove he was worth it and they might be a little leary about signing another free agent WR. So they go with Hagans or Stanley, or someone we draft who has some speed. If I'm right, that's a horrible plan.

*Milan* · #**165** (**permalink**) -01-03-2008

I don't think this team will do anything next year without Bruce. He was our go to guy on 3rd and long. Bennett isn't a #2. And the $5 mil in saved cap space isn't worth anything if you don't use it. What exactly have we done with our cap so far? Signed two kickers?

I'm really just wondering why Bennett wasn't released. He's making more money, and he's a lot worse. Where's the justification for giving him the #2 spot? Age?