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  1. #16
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
    After thinking about it a little bit, I'm really liking this trade. If we pick up Johnson and draft Clausen/Bradford at #3, I don't think that's a mistake. I understand that trying to develop 2 QBs simultaneously can become hairy, but the fact is we need QB help. This allows us two opportunities to fill the biggest hole we have on our roster while adding another 3rd round pick (almost 2nd round) in the process. Is that worth giving up Suh? I think so.
    Josh Johnson becomes our most experienced QB on the roster by 1 game in that scenario.

    Put another way, we would have a grand total of 9 games of NFL experience at the QB position for the entire roster in 2010. This strikes me as being a horrifically bad idea, and I'm wondering if you have also considered this.

    Remember how little we accomplished last season with the least experience receiving corps in the NFL last season? They're frickin 10-year vets compared to the experience we'd be trotting out at the QB position. We cannot have yet another skill position staffed entirely by greenhorns if we want to have any kind of offensive success.


  2. #17
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by rams_man13 View Post
    Johnson is just a Mike Vick back-up plan though. They are both similar players, Vick is just older, but that doesn't really matter for what we need him for.

    Why not just make two trades. Rams 1st overall and 4th rounder for Bucs 3rd overall, second rounder and 3rd rounder. Then, turn around, a trade the 5th we got from the Eagles for Vick. That will be an offer the Eagles will go for, after they try to trade McNabb and nobody bites for a fair value. They are going to move McNabb over Vick because the value will be greater.

    Josh Johnson will cost a 2nd rounder, Vick will cost a 5th.
    Or we could simply realize that the day of the running QB in the NFL is over and forget all of this.

    But that's just common sense talking.

  3. #18
    rams_man13 Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Or we could simply realize that the day of the running QB in the NFL is over and forget all of this.

    But that's just common sense talking.

    I'm with you 150% but it seems the Rams are not.

    My ideal situation is build a good team by BPA and not worry about QB until next year and get Jake Locker (even if it means trading up).

    If we're gonna trade down, I want it to be around 7 and grab Joe Haden, or just stick where we are and get Suh.

  4. #19
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by rams_man13 View Post
    I'm with you 150% but it seems the Rams are not.
    Have the Rams behaved as they think otherwise, or is it just overpaid talking heads stating that they think the Rams are behaving otherwise based on a cursory bit of research?

  5. #20
    KoaKoi is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    I know very little of Johnson, but I see alot of posts questioning Josh Johnson's value based upon the Bucs' pickup of Freeman last year. so i'll quip back: Josh Freeman was drafted by the Bucs new head coach at the time who had coached Freeman at college. He's his boy. and the Bucs' schemes were changing.

    so, just cuz the Bucs are willing to part with Johnson... doesn't mean he's terrible. is he a franchise qb? I am 110% absolutely positively sure that i have no idea.

  6. #21
    Scidog68 Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    The more I look at Johnson, the more I see that he is merely Keith Null III. We don't really need one Keith Null as a future franchise QB, let alone 3.
    Keith Null III?!? Um, no. Might wanna take another look. No offense, P.R., just beg to differ.


    It would appear that Bulger is out. Big J. Johnson fan here. Pro-level QB, at least as close as any we might draft. Our needs, I believe, would be better served by dealing to the Bucs... IMHO, of course.

  7. #22
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Peoria, you say getting Johnson is stupid because of............what? He would ahve more experience than ANYBODY we draft. Has had solid experience playing against good defenses against the redskins, eagles, and had the pressure put on his shoulders early. The guy made plays with his arm AND his leg. try watching some game footage on him before you go calling him Keith Null as he is nothing like Null.

    Drafting a QB just gives us even less experience than if we got Johnson with one less first round pick and shoulder questions. All Johnson and Vick share is speed and Johnson is a pass first guy rather than a take off at the first sign of danger QB like Vick and has a quick release and compact throwing motion if not the same cannon arm. Isn't easily rattled either. We're going to be developing a Qb anyway and Johnson is closer and has more potential than any QB we get in this draft, go ahead and argue that. Guy is also a leader and intelligent.

    Only reason he was drafted so low was ebcause of the school he played at. Id rather not have to pass on Suh to get him but id very much so be willing to explore the idea of trading for him with a 6 and both our 7th rounders.

  8. #23
    molar_pistol Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    i like johnson a lot, he has good potential, but i would still want a #2 pick plus their first, an extra third would be nice but not worth giving up suh, especially if we aren't going to pick a qb - who would be the pick?

  9. #24
    Nick_Weasel's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Put another way, we would have a grand total of 9 games of NFL experience at the QB position for the entire roster in 2010. This strikes me as being a horrifically bad idea, and I'm wondering if you have also considered this.
    I'm not saying having 2 developmental QBs would be optimal. I even acknowledged as much in my post. But the alternative is to have nothing promising at the position, which is obviously far worse. The fact of the matter is that at the 11th hour you can't construct the ideal situation. To do so we'd have to turn back the clock 2 years and draft a guy then. But if you have to choose between 2 developmental QBs or 0 developmental QBs, which position would you rather be in? Not to mention that there is nothing preventing us from bringing in a veteran QB to help mentor them anyway.

  10. #25
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    Josh Johnson becomes our most experienced QB on the roster by 1 game in that scenario.

    Put another way, we would have a grand total of 9 games of NFL experience at the QB position for the entire roster in 2010. This strikes me as being a horrifically bad idea, and I'm wondering if you have also considered this.

    Remember how little we accomplished last season with the least experience receiving corps in the NFL last season? They're frickin 10-year vets compared to the experience we'd be trotting out at the QB position. We cannot have yet another skill position staffed entirely by greenhorns if we want to have any kind of offensive success.
    I understand your concern, but need I remind you that we are still in rebuilding mode. Which means, it doesn't matter how much experience we have at QB or any other position for that matter.

    The idea of rebuilding is to assemble a team that grows together. Sure it's nice to mix in a few vets here and there, but I think you are focused to far out in front of the rebuilding process.

    We are not going to be expected to contend next year, no matter who we draft or sign and I believe Devaney and Spags understand that.

    So experience is not nearly as important for us as it is for, the Minnesota Vikings for example. Because obviously they're already a contender.

    The important thing for us at this point, is to grow together and show marked improvement every week.

    With that in mind, I believe it's OK to field a very young and somewhat inexperienced team.

    Hopefully, we'll be in a position the following year if not towards the end of this season, where all the lights go on together and we can really start to enjoy Ram football again.

  11. #26
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    To me this is kinda wierd. Detroit is most likely taking the best DT on the board. That leaves the Rams with the QBs and some guys we could reach for. In this trade down package if you pick the one of the QBs we basically traded down for a third and backup QB. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

    So other options possibly Eric Berry, Dez Bryant and Joe Hadden. Hadden and Berry are the better players, but WR is by far a bigger need than DBs.

    To me for this kinda deal to work we would need to get the second of the Bucs second round picks, but I wouldn't be surprised if we settled for the third and a conditional pick next year along with Johnson.

  12. #27
    npow81 Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    I think the best thing that could come, if we are looking at the possibilities in that article is for us to get Kolb and keep our #1 pick to take Suh.

    But I imagine Kolb would cost us our second rounder...would that be worth it?...i'm not sure.

    If we do trade the #1 pick, I think we are again trading certainties for uncertainties, it be a gamble, and personally I don't think we'd win.

  13. #28
    Molotov Guest

    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Lets think outside the box, but totally logical, for a moment. Just for fun.

    Rams give up #1 Pick
    Rams get Josh Johnson
    Rams get #3 pick in draft
    Rams get TBay's 2nd pick in 2nd round (#42 overall)
    Rams get TBay's 3rd round pick (#67 overall)

    Rams give up #3 pick
    Rams get Niners #13 pick
    Rams Get Niners #17 pick
    (***** get their QB)

    That leaves Rams with Johnson, Bulger, Null, and Reilly to battle for QB spot
    Rams have picks:
    #13 (CJ Spiller, Dez Bryant, Brian Price, Jason Pierre-Paul?)
    #17 (Dan Williams, Taylor Mays, Carlos Dunlap, Jermaine Gresham)
    #33 (Brandon Graham, Golden Tate, Colt McCoy, Kyle Wilson, Jahvid Best)
    #42 (Anthony Dixon, Damion Williams, Chad Jones)
    #65 (Ryan Matthews, Navarro Bowman, Dexter McCluster, Greg Hardy)
    #67(Ryan Matthews, Navarro Bowman, Dexter McCluster, Greg Hardy)

    Rebuilt in one draft.

  14. #29
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scidog68 View Post
    Keith Null III?!? Um, no. Might wanna take another look. No offense, P.R., just beg to differ.


    It would appear that Bulger is out. Big J. Johnson fan here. Pro-level QB, at least as close as any we might draft. Our needs, I believe, would be better served by dealing to the Bucs... IMHO, of course.
    Yes, Keith Null III. Mike Reilly is Keith Null II, and this would make him Keith Null III. The first two Nulls played at a Division II level, the third played in a league that might as well be Division II given the scholarship restrictions and opponent choices they make. All would be long term projects. All project to career backups.

  15. #30
    PeoriaRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Weasel View Post
    I'm not saying having 2 developmental QBs would be optimal. I even acknowledged as much in my post. But the alternative is to have nothing promising at the position, which is obviously far worse. The fact of the matter is that at the 11th hour you can't construct the ideal situation. To do so we'd have to turn back the clock 2 years and draft a guy then. But if you have to choose between 2 developmental QBs or 0 developmental QBs, which position would you rather be in? Not to mention that there is nothing preventing us from bringing in a veteran QB to help mentor them anyway.
    We wouldn't have 2 developmental QBs in that scenario. We'd have 3: Clauford (portmanteau), Johnson, and Null (presuming he beats out Reilly). Bulger won't stick around in this scenario due to money, Boller's obviously gone, and we aren't pulling the plug on both Null and Reilly after one season. We aren't going into the season with 4 QBs on the roster, and no veteran would sign with us anyway given those above conditions. We are going to only have 3 QBs on the roster, and there needs to be a mentor back, which means you need more than 5 games of personal NFL playing experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    Peoria, you say getting Johnson is stupid because of............what? He would ahve more experience than ANYBODY we draft. Has had solid experience playing against good defenses against the redskins, eagles, and had the pressure put on his shoulders early. The guy made plays with his arm AND his leg. try watching some game footage on him before you go calling him Keith Null as he is nothing like Null.
    Five games of NFL experience isn't a whole lot, and certainly not enough to constitute mentoring knowledge. Basically, all he can tell a rookie is "Good Lord they're fast in this league" which goes under the file of "duh". He has no real idea how to make things work in the NFL. He may have a better TD-INT ratio than Null (of course 4-8 isn't really better than 3-9) but is roughly equal in passing yards per game. Playmaking with legs is irrelevant because NFL defenses are too fast to make that a reliable tactic. For that matter, so is college football, because the opposition he faced in the Pioneer Football League sometimes struggles to beat NCAA Division III teams.

    Drafting a QB just gives us even less experience than if we got Johnson with one less first round pick and shoulder questions. All Johnson and Vick share is speed and Johnson is a pass first guy rather than a take off at the first sign of danger QB like Vick and has a quick release and compact throwing motion if not the same cannon arm. Isn't easily rattled either. We're going to be developing a Qb anyway and Johnson is closer and has more potential than any QB we get in this draft, go ahead and argue that. Guy is also a leader and intelligent.
    Answer one question. If he is as good as you say, why was he playing for the University of San Diego?

    Only reason he was drafted so low was ebcause of the school he played at. Id rather not have to pass on Suh to get him but id very much so be willing to explore the idea of trading for him with a 6 and both our 7th rounders.
    No thanks, we need the depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molotov View Post
    Lets think outside the box, but totally logical, for a moment. Just for fun.

    Rams give up #1 Pick
    Rams get Josh Johnson
    Rams get #3 pick in draft
    Rams get TBay's 2nd pick in 2nd round (#42 overall)
    Rams get TBay's 3rd round pick (#67 overall)

    Rams give up #3 pick
    Rams get Niners #13 pick
    Rams Get Niners #17 pick
    (***** get their QB)

    That leaves Rams with Johnson, Bulger, Null, and Reilly to battle for QB spot
    Rams have picks:
    #13 (CJ Spiller, Dez Bryant, Brian Price, Jason Pierre-Paul?)
    #17 (Dan Williams, Taylor Mays, Carlos Dunlap, Jermaine Gresham)
    #33 (Brandon Graham, Golden Tate, Colt McCoy, Kyle Wilson, Jahvid Best)
    #42 (Anthony Dixon, Damion Williams, Chad Jones)
    #65 (Ryan Matthews, Navarro Bowman, Dexter McCluster, Greg Hardy)
    #67(Ryan Matthews, Navarro Bowman, Dexter McCluster, Greg Hardy)

    Rebuilt in one draft.
    So lets review. You give the San Francisco *****, a much hated divisional rival of ours, the one single piece they need with which to go absolutely berserk on the league. We're not going to be that stupid to do that, partly because of fan backlash, and even more because we have to fact that team twice a year. That amounts to suicide.

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