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Thread: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Fans always think a team with a good offense and average defense should go all in on defensive help first when spending free agent money and high draft picks.

    However, if the goal is to win it all, balance should be secondary to superiority on one side of the ball.

    How should that effect the Rams? They should look at the model Seattle and SF have used, to build the defense and running game up first until it is getting you in the playoffs.

    Sure, if TOP offensive weapons are availabvle, go try for them, but if the Rams can add a great OLB, and two great safeties, plus another inside pass rusher and a fourth corner, this could be a world class defense.

    The Rams DO have three young WR that have very good upside, maybe great, and they will add talent and speed in the draft.

    That late first and early second round will feature some very good WR talent, and that's why I hope the Rams just stay out of the foolish bidding for these WR,

    I think TE nd OT should be where they go on offense, and they should instead, spend what it takes on defense to really make this good unit a top 5 squad.

    They have the pass rushers and the starting CB, meaning you can add cheaper positions like safety and linebacker with true stars.

    WHen the greatest show faded and started losing because of lousy defense, EVERYONE was crying to go for a defensive type squad, like the Ravens, Steelers, Giants, Bucs, and others had done.

    Everyone wanted a defensive coach as head coach, and were thrilled when they got Spags, and now the same people are crying for Air Coryell.

    The thing is, even if they had that kin dof firepower, Fisher and Shotty are not goon just start winging the ball all over, because they KNOW what it takes to WIN games in the NFL.

    So quit hollering about need need need all the time (meaning another Torry Holt or Ike Bruce)

    Add a tackle and a tight end and this offense is already better.

    WHen it comes to who you sign, you sign guys that are worth their contracts, no matter what need, big or small, they fill. You don't go QB, DE, or DT probably, but the rest si all ready for upgrade, and making t his good defense great is just as crucial, amybe moreso, as adding "explosive" offensive weapons.

    Just look at the SB winners below , and you see that having one great unit is far more imporatnt than having two good ones.


    In 1999, the Rams won it all with the best offense, and a quite average defense.
    In 2000, The Ravens won with the leagues best defense, one of the best ever, and a very medocre offense witha journey man passer.
    In 2001, New England won, without a good offense, with a vfery young, untested passer.
    In 2002, Tampa Bay won solely with defense.
    In 2003, New England's offense was 17th, again they won with D and ST, plus Brady magic when they had to have it.
    In 2004 New England's OFFENSE had passed a fading defense as best unit, but it was a fairly balanced team then.
    In 2005, the Steelers won with a top defense, and a rookie QB.
    In 2006 The Colts won solely with Peyton Manning and that offense.
    In 2007 , the Giants upset New England's powerhouse with DEFENSE, and 15th ranked offense.
    In 2008 The Steelers defense was #1, their offense #22.
    In 2009 The Saints won with Drew Brees and that #1 offense, while the D was 25th.
    In 2010 The Packers won, again mainly because of offense, but also had a good defense.
    In 2011 The Giants won with a high ranked offense, that was first in the playoffs in yardage. Their fading defense was 25th that year.
    In 2012 It was Baltimore's defense, and the work of the QB in the playoffs, that won it. Again, that team does have balance.

    Barry Waller

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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    I don't know why but the following jumped out at me. (In 1999, the Rams won it all with the best offense, and a quite average defense) So, I did some research and the research confirmed why it jumped out at me.

    The 1999 RAMS had the 6th ranked defense overall and the 4th ranked defense concerning points allowed. I would say that is a lot better than an average defense. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I just had a light bulb go off when I first read that line.
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    In 2001, New England won, without a good offense, with a vfery young, untested passer. and a great deal off assistance by the league officials
    Sorry, that just didn't pass the smell test. The 2001 season should be wiped off the books with the way the league escorted a not-very-good "Patriots" team through the play-offs, and then gift wrapped SB36 for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    In 2008 The Steelers defense was #1, their offense #22.
    If a clip/illegal block is called on the 99 yard "pick-6", the Cards win with a very good offense and a suspect D.

    gap
    Last edited by gap; -03-12-2013 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Added stealer correction

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    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Yeah, but the Rams DON'T HAVE one very good unit and one good one. They have one good one (defense) and one that is piss poor (offense). Anyone who feels we shouldn't make offense a priority hasn't been paying attention the last three years.

    Now, how we go about doing that is very much up for debate: the draft, free agency, a combination of both or relying on the guys we currently have. There are reasonable arguments for each. I personally place little stock in what people "might do" with no real body of work from which to judge, hence my ambivalence towards Quick and Pead and my anxiousness to get people in here offensively that are going to do something other than put me to sleep.

    Two words I'm sick to death of are "rebuilding" and "potential". With a 7-8-1 record last year, we are no longer rebuilding. Pick your alternate descriptive term- 'upgrading", "re-tooling," et. al. but we are NOT rebuilding. And eventually "potential" becomes a dirty word. As Bill Parcells once said, "Don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby".

    Fans are, have been and always be enamored with "name" guys. That doesn't mean a team should just sign guys with name recognition, but it does mean a team needs a couple of marquis guys on each unit to sell tickets and hopefully win ball games. With the imminent departure of SJax, only Bradford fits that description. And given our lack of productivity at the receiver position, it is understandable why fans show some impatience when a Mike Wallace is signed or when two division rivals scarf up two quality receivers.

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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I don't know why but the following jumped out at me. (In 1999, the Rams won it all with the best offense, and a quite average defense) So, I did some research and the research confirmed why it jumped out at me.

    The 1999 RAMS had the 6th ranked defense overall and the 4th ranked defense concerning points allowed. I would say that is a lot better than an average defense. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I just had a light bulb go off when I first read that line.
    I think that # 6 ranking for the defense is very misleading. The truth is, the offense was so overpowering that it was not uncommon for the opposition to be out of the game by the middle of the 2nd quarter or half time at the latest. This made things immeasurably easier for our defense because it made the opponent's offense one dimensional (pass only). I think this fact severely skewed the data on just how good our defense was. I think if our offense had been mediocre, we would have seen that that defense was average or slightly above average at best. Just my opinion.
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    The point was that building to strength might be a better method than trying to improve the lesser unit.

    Good teams know their personality, whether it is Defense or Offense, nd build to that phikosophy..

    The Steelers don't goout and try to get more wide open with big money deals, for instance

    As far as the 1999 Rams, those stats mean little. They were the sme D in 2000 pretty much, one of the worst ever.

    In 1999 they controlled the ball on offense, didn't turn the ball over and they got big leads all the time, making it way easier fr the linemen and everyone, knowing teams were only having to pass all the time .

    n the Super Bowl, that big lead wasn't big enough to stop Fisher from keeping Eddie George pounding away, and in the end only a great play by Ike Bruce on a throw that was possibly underthrown, and a miracle tackle, and the clock saved that defense.

    The 2001 Defense was better, thanks to Leonard Little and Aeneas Williams, but it still was that All Time offense that won it all.

    The 1999 teams also had a very easy schedule, which made that D look better.
    Just look at who was starting on D. Only Lyght, Wistrom, and Carter were first rounders.
    No big time free agents, just journeymen like Agnew , Jones, Bush, Collins, Clemons.
    Two of their best were Farr and Fletcher, both undrafted.

    On offense, they spent big to get Trent Green, who I think would have hade great success had he not gotten injured.

    Pace was the top pick, Holt a #1, Faulk a very high priced free agent, Timmerman a big pay free agent, Bruce a very high 2nd rounder, Conwell a second rounder (though he was hurt), Holcolme a second rounder.

    You have to get a bit lucky on whatever side is not the strength of the team when adding talent, and a lot has to do with where the draft depth lies.
    Barry Waller

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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    <<Yeah, but the Rams DON'T HAVE one very good unit and one good one>>

    Totally disagree. This defense was on the field too much, had a bunch of new faces, a new scheme, and never had a big lead to help them, and STILL led the NFL in SACKS, a HUGE stat.

    They also scored a bunch of points directly.

    They have two Pro bowl caliber ends, and two really good backups
    They have a high priced FA tackle and a first rounder with huge upside, and a nice young backup
    They have a really good MLB with Pro Bowl potential, and a young OLB that really looks to have great future
    They have two Pro Bowl caliber CBs and a good, young backup,
    They had a pretty good free safety, and now appear to be upgrading at both safeties.

    Most importantly, they were really good, even though they were that young and never played together in that offense, with 7 new starters.

    If you can't see the great potential there, you didn't see the two Seattle and two SF and two Cardinals games, three teams that had trashed the Rams for years.
    Barry Waller

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    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    <<Yeah, but the Rams DON'T HAVE one very good unit and one good one>>

    Totally disagree. This defense was on the field too much, had a bunch of new faces, a new scheme, and never had a big lead to help them, and STILL led the NFL in SACKS, a HUGE stat.

    They also scored a bunch of points directly.

    They have two Pro bowl caliber ends, and two really good backups
    They have a high priced FA tackle and a first rounder with huge upside, and a nice young backup
    They have a really good MLB with Pro Bowl potential, and a young OLB that really looks to have great future
    They have two Pro Bowl caliber CBs and a good, young backup,
    They had a pretty good free safety, and now appear to be upgrading at both safeties.

    Most importantly, they were really good, even though they were that young and never played together in that offense, with 7 new starters.

    If you can't see the great potential there, you didn't see the two Seattle and two SF and two Cardinals games, three teams that had trashed the Rams for years.
    Your statement that "Building to strength might be better than improving the lesser unit" is an excellent comment that we could debate for a long time. Some coaches have that exact train of thought while others seek balance. I think there are valid arguments both ways and we could probably cite many, many examples of teams in all sports who have been successful using each approach.

    Maybe I undersold the Rams defense by saying they were "good". Elements of their defense are VERY good, but I believe the entire defense cannot be categorized as such just yet until we upgrade at safety and linebacker in particular. But the offense is putrid- and we need significant help in numerous areas.

    I appreciate the thoroughness of your arguments and you make some valid points. I still would like a big-time offensive weapon to help out our prized (and sometimes maligned) QB!
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    How in todays modern NFL is it likely to have a balanced offense/defense? Not too likely, do to a number of caused, one of them being salary caps and one can afford just so much talent. Nevertheless a teams weaker half usually has to at least be solid in its fundements and not give away a game.

    The Rams defense is the strong side of the ball and is but a step or two away from easily being a top 5 defense. Its the offense that troubles me the most. For the last 5 years or more I been disappointed in the O-line...not to thrilled in getting varied talent to make Bradfords $60M contract worth it...this year am hopeful Fisher and Co will settle th O-line FINNALLY

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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Building a winner is not necessarily about balance, it's about being hot at the right time and covering the holes on your team throughout the season. There's also using a scheme that not many offenses/defenses are familiar with.

    The 2011 Giants come to mind when they were playing lights out football with a susceptible linebacker corp and secondary. Fisher's following the model by building a solidified D-line to mask our team deficiencies.

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    Barry Waller is offline Registered User
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    <<But the offense is putrid- and we need significant help in numerous areas>.

    "PUTRID"? Maybe in 2011, but last year they were 18th in passing yards, which is mediocre, but certainly not putrid. Had they had a healthy Amendola, their ranking would no doubt have been far higher.
    Barry Waller

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    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Building a WINNER Not All About Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Waller View Post
    <<But the offense is putrid- and we need significant help in numerous areas>.

    "PUTRID"? Maybe in 2011, but last year they were 18th in passing yards, which is mediocre, but certainly not putrid. Had they had a healthy Amendola, their ranking would no doubt have been far higher.

    I think we're splitting hairs with the offense. The bottom line is that they were not very good. Seven times they scored less than 20 points. Only twice did a running back go over 100 yards and only 5 times did they have a receiver go over 100. Their red-zone effort was poor. And now without Amendola and Jackson, their two biggest offensive threats, major upgrades- as well as a tremendous leap of faith in guys like Quick and Pead are needed.

    I, for one do not ascribe to the theory that balance doesn't have some degree of importance. In baseball, a great offense will take you only so far; you need a pitching staff that is at least decent. In basketball, you might have great shooters, but there are nights they will be cold,and you need to have a team that's willing-and able- to play defense. In football, defense helps win championships, but in today's NFL, you must put points on the board. You cannot rely on a defense generating points year after year. That's asking too much, no matter how good they are.

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