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  1. #31
    bruce4life's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    the language of every contract is so different especially for a high profile player like bulger that it takes a while to get everything going and all the odds and ends straightened out...


  2. #32
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce4life View Post
    the language of every contract is so different especially for a high profile player like bulger that it takes a while to get everything going and all the odds and ends straightened out...
    All true. But still. Contracts are complicated all over the league. I'm sayin if you add up all the teams in the league, the Rams would be in the slower group, not in the medium or the faster group. We shouldn't be defensive about that. It just is what it is.

  3. #33
    GreatCowGuru Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    I have studied this contract situation at length, and read the future in the cow pies.

    Trust me, the rumors are a bunch of bull.

    The truth has been spoken by the wise one, Barry Waller, and the deal shall be done.

  4. #34
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    All true. But still. Contracts are complicated all over the league. I'm sayin if you add up all the teams in the league, the Rams would be in the slower group, not in the medium or the faster group. We shouldn't be defensive about that. It just is what it is.
    Wait a second.

    If you are going to make a statement like this, you need to be able to back it up. I am not aware of any actual analysis of contract negotiation times among NFL teams that could establish which teams are fast and which teams are slow. Truth is, such an analysis would be impossible for lack of reliable data. While we typically know when the process ends (a contract signing is announced publicly), in most cases we have little or no way of knowing when negotiations truly began, as that is a private matter.

    And don't tell us that you've personally observed all of the contract negotiations conducted over the years by all 32 teams such that you can speak to this issue yourself.

  5. #35
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Wait a second.

    If you are going to make a statement like this, you need to be able to back it up. I am not aware of any actual analysis of contract negotiation times among NFL teams that could establish which teams are fast and which teams are slow. Truth is, such an analysis would be impossible for lack of reliable data. While we typically know when the process ends (a contract signing is announced publicly), in most cases we have little or no way of knowing when negotiations truly began, as that is a private matter.

    And don't tell us that you've personally observed all of the contract negotiations conducted over the years by all 32 teams such that you can speak to this issue yourself.
    I told you where I got it from. And besides you act like it's an accusation. It's a description. Over the years the Rams have been slower about this...and I said I based that on personal observation of *when the contracts tend to get signed.* (You don't need to observe negotiations to know when they've been completed, cause when it's completed...they announce it.) It comes from year after year of waiting for a big Rams deal to get done (usually about 2 weeks into camp) while seeing some other teams complete similar kinds of big deals before camp.

    I know others agree with me. But if you want hard data, sorry...I'm not going to get hard data (that would take weeks) just to prove something to you personally. Those who agree with me agree...others will just have to agree to disagree.

    And. Again. It's not an accusation. So try not to treat it like one.

  6. #36
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    You haven't told me or anyone else anything other than your own observations regarding the time it takes for the Rams to sign their players. That does not give you a basis to compare the Rams negotiating times to 31 other teams.

    If you want to express an opinion, please do so.

    But if you portray something as fact, you have to be able to back it up with more than "because I said so."

  7. #37
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    And I never claimed anything BUT personal observation and a point of view that is my own, and worded it accordingly. Hence my whole "agree to disagree" line on this.

    If you think the Rams are swift negotiators, say so. It has been my experience throughout being a Rams fan, particularly in the late 90s and 2000s, that every time there's a big deal up, we wait until about 2 weeks into camp before the thing is signed. Meanwhile. That is NOT true of every team out there in the same situation.

    I never claimed anything BUT anecdotal, experiential observation.

    On that basis you can believe it or not. Those who agree, however, agree. They see it as I do. I am perfectly happy with that universe, especially since I never claimed more than that.

    If you honestly think this issue is worth more than that, they you go get the data and prove us wrong, if you can.

    And here's hoping that the Bulger deal is an exception.

  8. #38
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    I never claimed anything BUT anecdotal, experiential observation.
    Actually, you did:

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd
    I'm sayin if you add up all the teams in the league, the Rams would be in the slower group, not in the medium or the faster group. We shouldn't be defensive about that. It just is what it is.
    Let's repeat that key part:

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd
    It just is what it is.
    That is YOU stating that it is a fact that the Rams are slower than most NFL teams.

    Allow me to be frank. YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS TO BACK UP THAT COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS. All you have is your own oberservation that the Rams, by your estimate, negotiate slowly.

    Again, if you want to state an opinion, please do. (i.e. "I think that the Rams take too much time negotiating contracts.")

    But if you're going to state a fact (i.e. "the Rams are among the slower teams in negotiating contracts.") you need to be able to back it up.

  9. #39
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    "I'm saying if" is not an evidence claim. Unless you want to take that out of context and take it way too literally just cause you're in a fighting mood. It's just a way to be clear about what my contention was. I am saying if you added up all the teams the Rams would be on the slow end. That's a response to the comment "every contract is slow." What do I base my belief on. Observation...and I never claimed anything more.

    And the second comment is an even more ludicrouse example of taking something out of context. "It is what it is" is a colloquial phrase which means "I am not making judgements, that's just how stuff is." Saying that doesn't automatically obligate anyone making an "is what it is" statement to produce spread sheets. It's just a way of saying something. In fact it doesn't even say what you think it does---since that statement modifies this one: "We shouldn't be defensive about that."

    Look, when I stated directly what my claim was, I said over and over it was based on observation. It's not my fault if you need to take statements out of context and take them in a literal way not meant, in what amounts to putting words in my mouth.

    I will put it so even you can get it, even in a literalizing frame of mind.

    I made 2 kinds of statements.

    One was that based on my experience as a fan observer, Rams are later with these things than many other teams are, which only means that it is not contracts alone and their difficulty which determines the amount of time it takes. Observationally, personally, from experience, from what I have seen, they are slower.

    I also said that that's not a criticism. (Some people are over-sensitive to criticism.)

    Now tell me you find THIS exchange a real story and interesting and th e kind of thing all Rams fans should read, and it will make my day. As opposed to all the things you personally do not find interesting, as you freely say on a regular basis.

    To me, it's just you being obstinate about how I phrased things, dealing in semantics, when I know doggone well what I said.

    And do you want that transcript or not or should I just PM someone who might be interested in it.

  10. #40
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    I think maybe 2 or 3 Bulger contracts from now, you two might see eye to eye on something.

  11. #41
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Your explanation makes no sense (well, that's putting it kindly).

    And no, I don't need you to send me a transcript. As I said, I've already listened to the interview.

  12. #42
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    Your explanation makes no sense (well, that's putting it kindly).

    And no, I don't need you to send me a transcript. As I said, I've already listened to the interview.
    THE TRANSCRIPT WOULD BE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE REST OF THE BOARD. I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU...I WAS OFFERING SOMETHING TO THE BOARD. Since I can't copy the transcript myself, I needed to post a link to it and ask someone else to copy it, again, as information provided to the board (and a lot of us can't make the link to the live interview work). I already posted that link and you deleted it. So I need to make sure it's okay to post it somehow cause I do not understand on what basis it got deleted.

    Now as for you not understanding what I said. It's simple. You are taking words out of context and as too literal and the effect is you do not know what I said.

    Not every statement about the Rams is a fact claim with the intention of being backed by evidence. Don't believe me? Read the message board. There are opinions all over the place....and they aren't routinely followed by misreadings demanding statistical evidence. We state opinions here and I never claimed anything but that my opinion of the Rams relative speed negotiating is anything but that...it's you putting words in my mouth distorting what I said who is acting like I said something I didn't.

    Though I BELIEVE you when you say you don't know what it means when someone says you took something out of context and/or took it too literally.

    You asked flat out what I based the comment on. I flat out told you. Anything after that, trying to alter my meaning or put words in my mouth, is you acting in bad faith. My cards were all right on the table....and then you act like you can change the rules of the game.

    No, not every remark about the Rams is backed by statisitical proof. If you dissent and think it should be, you then ask the person, can you back that up statistically? If they say, in honesty and good faith, "no this is based on educated experienced and observation," it is then bogus to reject the claim---cause otherwise, you would have to reject 90% of what is said by anyone on a board dedicated to offering our opinions, observations, and viewpoints.

    And frankly to me it just looks suspiciously like what happens when certain people around here believe the team gets criticized. Then there's a thousand reasons why they're not even supposed to post it. If I had said "the Rams are faster than most in these kinds of negotiations," we would never have had this conversation.

  13. #43
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Dude, if you bothered to read, you'd see that you were deleted because you started a new thread on something that there were already multiple threads regarding. What is stopping you from posting your transcript on one of the existing Bulger threads?

    As for your belief that you would have received a different reaction if you stated that the Rams are among the faster teams in negotiating contracts... well, you just don't get it.

  14. #44
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    Because the transcript is new info that many people would be interested in. Many people can't make the link to the live interview work. So a transcript would be a resource for them. Putting it in an existing thread would bury it. Essentially the transcript has the exact same status as the Pasquerelli article on Bulger that got posted in a new thread.

    For those who can't make the audio link work, the transcript is completely new info. My concern is that burying it in an old thread would mean fewer people would find it, people who might otherwise be interested.

  15. #45
    ramsbruce's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger contract questions and info

    LOL. Ok I'm actually tired of reading the word "transcript" so znrd just PM me the link and I will post it and if a mod feels they need to move it or do whatever with it then so be it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Tre was running great against an awful NYG run defense. 5.8 YPC yet he only gets 13 carries. I can't wait until the Rams abandon you, Schotty.

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