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  1. #31
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Considering that was my first post in this thread and all I was responding to was your comments about Rotoworld and their coverage, yes.

    You stated that if Rotoworld actually used the term "threatens" then they were bs-ing. I showed they used the word threatens, thus you agree they were bs-ing, right?

    And as you said, their actual report did not say he threatened anything. Thus, there wasn't any reason to use that word in their headline.
    ?

    Yeah I agree they were bs-ing, where do you think I said otherwise?

    I stated emphatically that I had not seen that headline. But if they did use it they were bs-ing.

    And, frankly, I made the "is that all you got" comment cause, without looking, I didn't realize I was responding to "nick," I thought it was someone else.

    The point being, some have taken the rotoworld issue to indict all of sports media (deliberate exaggeration on my part) and I was just saying, naw, that's just one site.

    Next time I will double-check the handle of who I am responding to.


  2. #32
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Look, anyone who has followed football past 12 years old knows that agents prep clients. You can count on most people knowing the basics.
    One would think.
    Bulger probably had no idea that a direct, honest answer to the question "would you rule out a hold-out" could take on a life of its own.
    Are you being serious? You think Bulger and/or Condon are/is so dumb they/he wouldn't know the result of A) having to answer the hold-out question, and B) not immediately denying any chance of a holdout? Common sense alone would rule that out. Bulger is not as dumb as you appear to think he is. They knew the question would be asked, and they knew what answer to give.
    And it's also extremely doubtful that even the magic Condon could anticipate every question asked every single client he has, and prep them accordingly.
    Even the dumbest agent managing the dumbest client would have known the hold-out question would have to be answered.
    UNLESS you're saying that Condon WANTED Bulger to give the impression he would not rule out a hold out. But I don't think that woulda been a real good idea.
    OF COURSE HE DID. There is no way Bulger could have ruled out a hold-out. He would have cut his own legs out from under him. Now he has the best of both worlds.......the FO knows he would at least consider a hold-out, and the fans rest easy hearing him down-play the statement, thereby maintaining his status with the masses.

    He and Condon handled this exactly the way it should have been handled.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #33
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    I disagree. I think it's clear that Bulger is somewhat bothered that the deal is not done, and that it comes through in the interview. I agree with Coats.

    It would help if we had the transcript. So do you want it or not.
    I've listened to the interview, and the overall context clearly is not that he "is bothered that a deal is not done." The overwhelming emphasis is that he trusts that his agent is doing the right thing and that it will all work out.

    Oh, and, personally, I don't care if you think something that interests others is a "story" or "non-story." I don't know why you think anyone does care.
    Objectively, it is a non-story. The interview did not provide us with any new information whatsoever. It told us that Bulger would like to be signed (we knew that already), that he's not signed yet (we knew that already), that he has put his faith in Condon (we knew that already) and that he's optimistic that a deal will get done (we knew that already).

    The only arguably new twist presented in the interview is that he wouldn't rule out a holdout. Is that newsworthy? In my opinion, no. Why? Because, as many (including you) have noted, pretty much any person asked that question would say the same thing to avoid giving up the bargaining chip of a holdout.

    So, is that a "story." I think not.

    Oh, and the fact that you don't care about my opinion is interesting, considering you feel the need to respond to everthing I post.
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -07-12-2007 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #34
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    Yeah I agree they were bs-ing, where do you think I said otherwise?
    I don't think you said otherwise. I was simply anticipating that you would confirm your previous statement once you were able to see the headline. Instead you went off on a different topic because you mistook me for someone else, so I clarified that my involvement was strictly regarding the Rotoworld headline and how it misconstrued the tone and context of the interview.

  5. #35
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Are you being serious? You think Bulger and/or Condon are/is so dumb they/he wouldn't know the result of A) having to answer the hold-out question, and B) not immediately denying any chance of a holdout?.
    You are on the wrong page with me.

    I say that in part because you are making arguments *I* am making and yet pretending like I need to hear them for the first time.

    I said over and over that there is no way the guy is simply going to say "no" to the hold out question because it takes a card off the table.

    What he found out, though, is that there's ways to say it, and ways to say it.

    He said it in a way that led him into a situation he and Condon surely did NOT prefer...he had to come out in the press again and tone down how people were taking it. Now tell me Condon plannned THAT.

    So anyway you are kind of missing by a hair what I am saying. That is technically known as "magnification of small differences." Cause OBVIOUSLY Bulger wants to keep the holdout card alive and in fact I said so, several times and I think even in different threads.

    But there are ways of saying it and ways of saying it. The way Marc said it this time, he left himself wide open to being taken this way: BULGER DOES NOT RULE OUT A HOLD OUT, which is a little stronger than how he should have played it.

    You can play it BOTH so that the card is still active BUT you can't be misconstrued as flaunting it. In fact it happens all the time.

    What's the difference in how you say it? Experience in a national spotlight. My bet is next time, he'll know how to waffle a little more without at the same time underminding his hand.

    Now you can agree or not on that but this is really a small issue. It's almost as though I ended up in a universe where something got taken as criticizing Bulger and so there has to be a swat team running to his rescue.

    To me it's not that dire an issue. I would have preferred to have just said it once and have people get what I meant without the need to keep clarifying the obvious.

  6. #36
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Common sense alone would rule that out.
    The thing about common sense is, it's not always that common.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  7. #37
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I don't think you said otherwise. I was simply anticipating that you would confirm your previous statement once you were able to see the headline. Instead you went off on a different topic because you mistook me for someone else, so I clarified that my involvement was strictly regarding the Rotoworld headline and how it misconstrued the tone and context of the interview.
    Reminds me.

    I have to help my wife arrange a child visit with her ex-.

    They have lots of exchanges that sound just like that.

  8. #38
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd
    You are on the wrong page with me.
    Well, you're half right, anyway.

    zach, he said it exactly the way he wanted to. It played out perfect for him. Maybe you're not seeing that in that "universe" you refer to, but Bulger made money if anything. Truth is Bulger already knows more about handling the media than you and I put together, so I'm quite sure there's nothing we could tell him (and certainly not Condon) about how to handle this situation. Rest assured, he couldn't have handled it any better.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  9. #39
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    But he had to come out and correct how it got taken.

    Now how often have you seen that. People are up for big extensions in the NFL all the time. Now how often do they have to come out AFTER an interview and say (more or less) "what I said got blown out of proportion." I mean particularly about the hold-out issue. Yet it comes up with every marquee player who is up for an extension or in negotiations.

    So chances are, Bulger put it a way that was a bit TOO stark, whether that's what he intended to say originally or not.

    Have you ever been interviewed by the press? I have several times. Early on it included uhappy moments where I know what I meant but I could see how it was being used to come across. After that...I got a little more cautious in how I put things. That's what I see in the Bulger case.

    And for goodness sake, who is "telling him what he should have done"? This is a message board full of opinions, arguments, interpretations, fact claims, debate, and discussion. I don't accept ANY argument whose purport is "you can not say what you said." Uh yeah I can. And besides, you're not really talking about Condon or Bulger...you are giving me YOUR view of them, as so untouchable they are beyond commentary and criticism. Sorry it don't work that way. This is a message board, and I disagree with you that Bulger put that the best possible way...and I base that on the simple fact that he himself had to come out afterward and calm the waters down. Yet not every marquee player in the same position has to do that.

  10. #40
    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    I didn't get that same "sky is falling" impression. Maybe you could quote something.

    They said he said he would not rule out a hold out. And in fact, when asked about a hold out...he said, "I don't want to rule anything out."

    So, maybe he should choose his words more carefully next time.

    But I did not see any big distortions in the press accounts.
    Ok, maybe not the "sky is falling". But they used his quotes in a way to sensationalize their article a little bit. I guess the "sky is falling" feelings would be better directed at the people who were reacting to the articles with hysteria on message boards such as this one.

  11. #41
    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bulger interview

    And as for the "next" I didn't say a thing about how "great the media is." I did question the generalization that they are ALL slimeballs, but I don't see how you get "how great the media is" out of that. Fact is I said nothing about "the media" one way or another, or make any generalizations about "reporters" and what they are all supposed to be like (great OR slimeball). What I said was that I did not see the big distortions...and I asked someone to point them out to me. That means what it says. Once I had the Schein version of some things Bulger said, rendered in direct quotations, I could compare the various versions, and I did not see any big distortions when I did that...but then I left it open: maybe someone does see that and can demonstrate it. Meaning, the response would be to demonstrate it, not to try and make the poster the issue for some mysterious reason.
    Bulger wasn't misquoted or taken out of context. But the way things are written can shed a very different light on them then what was intended;

    Sarcasm sometimes doesn't come across well in text. You could tell a friend "I hate you," after they made fun of you about something. This could come across two ways to them. They could know you're kidding and you have a sense of humor about yourself or they could genuinely think that you're mad at them for what they said. Sometimes you have to hear the tone and inflection of a person's voice to tell how serious they are about something.

    Things don't always have to be taken completely out of context to be spun, I hope you can see my point here.

    Also I'm curious, why areyou being interveiwed by the media all the time? If you have experienced this with the media why aren't you giving Bulger the benefit of the doubt here? You can be pretty contradictory at times.
    Last edited by helorm341; -07-12-2007 at 06:52 PM.

  12. #42
    r8rh8rmike's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    But he had to come out and correct how it got taken.

    Now how often have you seen that. People are up for big extensions in the NFL all the time. Now how often do they have to come out AFTER an interview and say (more or less) "what I said got blown out of proportion." I mean particularly about the hold-out issue. Yet it comes up with every marquee player who is up for an extension or in negotiations.

    So chances are, Bulger put it a way that was a bit TOO stark, whether that's what he intended to say originally or not.
    You're right that Bulger had to come out and try to correct the record, but regardless of how he answered the question, the press was going to run with it unless they heard Bulger say he would NOT hold out. I just don't see much of a difference between your suggested quote, "well no one can really rule anything out in this life but I do not expect to be in a hold out." and what he actually said, "I don't think that will happen. But you never know. I don't want to rule anything out."

  13. #43
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by helorm341 View Post
    Bulger wasn't misquoted or taken out of context. But the way things are written can shed a very different light on them then what was intended;

    Sarcasm sometimes doesn't come across well in text. You could tell a friend "I hate you," after they made fun of you about something. This could come across two ways to them. They could know you're kidding and you have a sense of humor about yourself or they could genuinely think that you're mad at them for what they said. Sometimes you have to hear the tone and inflection of a person's voice to tell how serious they are about something.

    Things don't always have to be taken completely out of context to be spun, I hope you can see my point here.

    Also I'm curious, why areyou being interveiwed by the media all the time? If you have experienced this with the media why aren't you giving Bulger the benefit of the doubt here? You can be pretty contradictory at times.

    1. I think that if rotoworld actually had the headline "Bulger threatens" then they were bs-ing...and apparently, they did use that headline. And so yes, rotoworld took Bulger out of context. I agreed with that earlier, and I agree with you now. I think we see that one the same way.

    2. I am not NOT giving Bulger the benefit of the doubt. I was actually not criticizing him. To say someone, from relative lack of experience, did not fully realize how easy it was to get burned, isn't to criticize them. I;ve been burned that way myself. Actually I was just speculating about what I thought happened. It was an explanation, not a criticism. I was just trying to explain why he said what he said and then had to basically come out and calm the waters. Probably, as I see it, he made the statement a little stronger than he meant to, or at least, did not realize how it could be used against him (and if you are interviewed by the press, then, you want to know how your words can be used against you, and adjust accordingly). So I just think the "doesn't rule out a hold out" remark was stronger than he realized. Maybe it would have been better to say something like "well, of course, anything can happen, but I don't anticipate having to worry about that." Saying it that way lets the Rams know that he is retaining the hold out card, but it doesn't give the users and abusers in the press any ammunition. In fact, it was a minor point...along the lines of "hmm, wonder if he had to do it over again, he might be a little more circumspect with how he put that." Anyway, that's not a criticism of Bulger.

    I am never contradictory, btw. It's just that I don't fit hard, fixed, "for em or against them, one side or the other" kinds of categories. I think what happens is that some people either think I'm being critical when I'm not, leading to all sorts of tangled exchanges, OR when I *am* critical, some completely over-react to it.

    I tend to go case by case, I tend to call em as I see em, I tend to be a realist, and I tend to be honest (according to my own best lights) about my team. That doesn't make me a basher, or a pessimist, or a agent provacateur, or anything negative. It also means that I can disagree with a guy one post and then completely agree with him the next thread, cause I don't count WHO it is, I look at what they say. It also can mean I can be in one thread arguing that Bulger sometimes holds the ball too long, and then at the exact same time be in another thread disagreeing with someone who says that Bulger is not a top 6 qb. Those things aren't contradictory. He does hold the ball too long sometimes. He is a top 6 qb. But sometimes, people in the "holds the ball" thread keep responding as if they think I am this notorious Bulger basher. Nope, just being honest about a flaw I see in the game of a very good qb.
    Last edited by z.nrd; -07-12-2007 at 08:38 PM.

  14. #44
    RamsFanSam's Avatar
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    Re: Bulger interview

    In October 2005, I met Marc. While I only had a few minutes to talk to him, I got the impression that he only spoke when he had something to say.

    One of the members of the press who was at the same luncheon asked him how he felt about the issue with Martz's health problems.

    The man sounded like a diplomat...every word out of his mouth was NOT rehearsed, yet he answered the question without hesitation, and spoke his thoughts without causing controversy.

    Listen to the interview again, but this time listen CLOSELY. Marc isn't giving anything away. He's telling us he's confident about a deal getting done soon. He also didn't say he'd be a holdout, only that it's a possibility. Why would he want to pay a fine when he knows good and well he still has the free agency thing to hold over their heads?

    Think about it. Marc has repeatedly stated that he wants to STAY A RAM. If a deal doesn't get done, the Rams are going to have to pay up no matter how you look at it. If the Rams end up tagging him as a franchise player, he will be paid top 5 money. If he ends up a free agent, they'll have to pony up a LOT more.

    Marc's not stupid. He knows EXACTLY what he said.

  15. #45
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    Re: Bulger interview

    But he had to come out and correct how it got taken.
    I've explained my view on this numerous times. Re-read any one of my posts on this. I, for one, don't care to repeat myself throughout a thread.
    Have you ever been interviewed by the press?
    Yes, it's part of my job.
    Early on it included uhappy moments where I know what I meant but I could see how it was being used to come across. After that...I got a little more cautious in how I put things.
    Maybe you should have had an agent that would helped prepare you. As for me, if I'm asked a question that took me by surprise, it means I didn't do my homework. I don't like that so I make sure it never happens........and I'm not even in a multi-million dollar negotiation.

    zach, you're free to have whatever opinion you like, as is anyone around here. And contrary to some beliefs those opinions are even free to criticize whomever they like.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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