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  1. #46
    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bulger interview

    I was just trying to explain why he said what he said and then had to basically come out and calm the waters. Probably, as I see it, he made the statement a little stronger than he meant to, or at least, did not realize how it could be used against him (and if you are interviewed by the press, then, you want to know how your words can be used against you, and adjust accordingly)
    So you agree that the press can use people's words against them but you won't give Bulger the benefit of the doubt that the way his words were portrayed in the press, don't give justice to what he was trying to say? That's where I say you're being contradictory. I'm not saying you're contradictory all the time. You usually take a hard line on a subject, for better or worse.

    To me he had to come out and correct the way the press was portraying him, not correct what he said.

    Have you listened to the interveiw? Until you listen to it you're just beating around the bush on the subject. After I listened to it I think he was wrongly portrayed in the media. And really, you can take it either way you want to because he has come out and made his feelings very clear.

    You did'nt answer me question either, what line of work areyou in?


  2. #47
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by helorm341 View Post
    So you agree that the press can use people's words against them but you won't give Bulger the benefit of the doubt that the way his words were portrayed in the press, don't give justice to what he was trying to say? That's where I say you're being contradictory. I'm not saying you're contradictory all the time. You usually take a hard line on a subject, for better or worse.

    To me he had to come out and correct the way the press was portraying him, not correct what he said.

    Have you listened to the interveiw? Until you listen to it you're just beating around the bush on the subject. After I listened to it I think he was wrongly portrayed in the media. And really, you can take it either way you want to because he has come out and made his feelings very clear.

    You did'nt answer me question either, what line of work areyou in?
    1. Yeah there are those in the press who can use your words against you.

    2. And more savvy, more experienced guys know that, and act accordingly.

    Why is that hard to get?

    All I said is that Bulger isn't quite at the point yet where he's #2.

    For me to "give him the benefit of the doubt," that would have to be an attack, or criticism, or blame.

    The problem here is that you keep seeing it as attack, or criticism, or blame.

    Man, that is just taking over-sensitivity to criticism way too far. And I read the transcript. Since matters of tone are subjective, there's no reason to think I would agree with you about the voice tone, either. When I was taken out of context by a reporter my tone was just fine. As a result, I learned to be more savvy about how I put things to reporters. Now, you're saying I should have instead given myself the benefit of the doubt?

    It's like if you read anything that can be construed as a criticism of a Ram, you're tireless until the poster is supposed to relent. Well, sorry. I see it differently than you and will just agree to disagree, although I also agree to wonder why something this small matters to you. I am, however, unrelenting.

    On a personal note. I never discuss my work/job online. That's a practice that goes back to when I started posting in 98. I just ask people to respect that.

  3. #48
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is online now Moderator Emeritus
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    It's like if you read anything that can be construed as a criticism of a Ram, you're tireless until the poster is supposed to relent.
    No, it seems that if anyone disagrees with the way you express yourself or criticizes your reasoning you feel the need to play the "I'm a realist/you're a homer" card.

    Since you haven't been around these boards for all that long, let me assure you that you are not the only one here who criticizes the team. In fact, I'd wager that some of those you have pegged as the biggest "Rams can do no wrong" homers have, at times, been the biggest critics of the team.

  4. #49
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    No, it seems that if anyone disagrees with the way you express yourself or criticizes your reasoning you feel the need to play the "I'm a realist/you're a homer" card.

    Since you haven't been around these boards for all that long, let me assure you that you are not the only one here who criticizes the team. In fact, I'd wager that some of those you have pegged as the biggest "Rams can do no wrong" homers have, at times, been the biggest critics of the team.
    Disagree. I get disagreed with all the time and have fun in the process. And if someone offers a valid argument, I acknowledge it. You want links? Though since you're an admin, let me ask---is this kind of exchange okay? Cause when in Rome. I mean I could just as easily turn it around on you and say whenever you are disagreed with...something you don't seem to enjoy very much...you start talking in personal terms about the poster, and painting this unflattering picture of their personal motive. Or you seem to decide people shouldnt be talking about something (eg. "this thread is pointless") even though they quite obviously are interested in talking about it and that's just your own heavy-handed and intrusive personal opinion. Now...this kind of exchange is okay? Part of the fabric of the board, permissable, and all? Cause if you're going to initiate it, I will follow your lead.

    The guy flat said that he thought me saying Bulger was a little inexperienced dealing with the national press under a spotlight like this was a criticism of Bulger. I don't agree. Far from it...that wasn't blame. Saying someone is a little inexperienced in a new, cutthroat, bigger media context is not a criticism of that individual. Heck if anything it's Marc's unassuming honesty that is behind all this. So I don't have to give him benefit of the doubt...I never "doubted" him. To me, it was just an explanation for something I saw happening. And to me, also, that argument is set up to be against those I see on the net who are flat blaming Bulger because they honestly believe he is threatening to hold out. I don't think he is (and that view is out there among posting fans). I just think he didn't quite finesse a tough, trap question. He has to keep the hold out option intact, without at the same time flaunting it. It's not easy. Which is very different from saying (as some are) that he is making threats.
    Last edited by z.nrd; -07-13-2007 at 01:53 AM.

  5. #50
    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by z.nrd View Post
    Disagree. I get disagreed with all the time and have fun in the process. And if someone offers a valid argument, I acknowledge it. You want links? Though since you're an admin, let me ask---is this kind of exchange okay? Cause when in Rome. I mean I could just as easily turn it around on you and say whenever you are disagreed with...something you don't seem to enjoy very much...you start talking in personal terms about the poster, and painting this unflattering picture of their personal motive. Or you seem to decide people shouldnt be talking about something (eg. "this thread is pointless") even though they quite obviously are interested in talking about it and that's just your own heavy-handed and intrusive personal opinion. Now...this kind of exchange is okay? Part of the fabric of the board, permissable, and all? Cause if you're going to initiate it, I will follow your lead.

    The guy flat said that he thought me saying Bulger was a little inexperienced dealing with the national press under a spotlight like this was a criticism of Bulger. I don't agree. Far from it...that wasn't blame. Saying someone is a little inexperienced in a new, cutthroat, bigger media context is not a criticism of that individual. Heck if anything it's Marc's unassuming honesty that is behind all this. So I don't have to give him benefit of the doubt...I never "doubted" him. To me, it was just an explanation for something I saw happening. And to me, also, that argument is set up to be against those I see on the net who are flat blaming Bulger because they honestly believe he is threatening to hold out. I don't think he is (and that view is out there among posting fans). I just think he didn't quite finesse a tough, trap question. He has to keep the hold out option intact, without at the same time flaunting it. It's not easy. Which is very different from saying (as some are) that he is making threats.
    I think Avenger's point is that you seem to be on the contrary side of whatever the topic is about or you come out with topics that you know the majority is going to disagree with. I'm guessing you like to play devil's advocate and debate things, like (sometimes) I do.

    I never said you were criticizing Bulger. I was just argueing about what I heard in the press. You took the position that Bulger was in fact threatening to hold out (to put it another way, that his comments would give you that impression,whatever you really thought) and I didn't see it that way. It wasn't a personal arguement or even one about Bulger really, in essence it was just semantics.

    Yes, you're not budgeing from the position, but I knew you wouldn't. You say I care to much about the little things but you've probably written 5x more on this topic then I have.

    I just think he didn't quite finesse a tough, trap question. He has to keep the hold out option intact, without at the same time flaunting it. It's not easy. Which is very different from saying (as some are) that he is making threats
    My whole point is that he did do a good enough job. The transcript of it doesn't do his statement justice, you'd have to listen to it. If you won't listen to the 20 minute long interveiw then I guess I don't have anything else to say to you on this topic.


    On another note, you said you won't discuss the details of your job and you already did earlier in the thread. I'm not asking for the company name and phone number, I'm just genuinely curious what line of work you're in, a vague answer will more then suffice.
    Last edited by helorm341; -07-13-2007 at 05:48 AM.

  6. #51
    z.nrd Guest

    Re: Bulger interview

    Quote Originally Posted by helorm341 View Post
    I think Avenger's point is that you seem to be on the contrary side of whatever the topic is about or you come out with topics that you know the majority is going to disagree with. I'm guessing you like to play devil's advocate and debate things, like (sometimes) I do.

    I never said you were criticizing Bulger. I was just argueing about what I heard in the press. You took the position that Bulger was in fact threatening to hold out (to put it another way, that his comments would give you that impression,whatever you really thought) and I didn't see it that way. It wasn't a personal arguement or even one about Bulger really, in essence it was just semantics.

    Yes, you're not budgeing from the position, but I knew you wouldn't. You say I care to much about the little things but you've probably written 5x more on this topic then I have.

    My whole point is that he did do a good enough job. The transcript of it doesn't do his statement justice, you'd have to listen to it. If you won't listen to the 20 minute long interveiw then I guess I don't have anything else to say to you on this topic.


    On another note, you said you won't discuss the details of your job and you already did earlier in the thread. I'm not asking for the company name and phone number, I'm just genuinely curious what line of work you're in, a vague answer will more then suffice.
    We just agree to disagree on Bulger's interview. My view is, lots of guys in the same situation don't end up in the same controversies. I would listen to the audio link, but I can't. I can't access the link. I did not take the position that he was threatening to hold out---I argue against that idea. I don't even think his comments give that impression. I think his comment was worded in such a way that it could be used against him. I think that there are some in the press who do use what you say...and you have to be prepared for that, that's part of the landscape. That's not going to change, there's always someone out there who will do that. So the trick is to finesse better how you respond to a hot-button/trap question. There are more innocuous ways to phrase things so they can't be used against you, yet also you don't concede anything. To know how to do that takes experience. Now you may disagree with that, but I see it as an innocuous point.

    No one here is budging from their position. Not a single person. So on that, I'm just no different.

    Contrary? I dunno man. You make your point in a fair and respectful way but I dont agree with it. Most of the time I come late to a thread and take a position that others have taken too...how is that "contrary"? 2 examples---in the Wroten thread I was in the majority, and in the Atogwe thread I was agreeing with the original poster that maybe they need to work on safety. Most of the time, in most threads, I am not alone in the positions I take...why am I the one who is playing devil's advocate or being contrary? I get PMs from people saying I made reasonable, thoughtful points in this or that thread and how they appreciate them...who do I listen to, them? Or the ones who want to see me as "contrary"? I don't play devil's advocate, in this sense that I don't post something unless I believe it. And I don't expect my posts to cause all this controversy and am usually surprised when they do. I think I make reasonable points others can agree or disagree with. Sometimes I see things in a way others don't and then I am surprised when I have to end up justifying it (like, you thought I was saying Bulger DID threaten to hold out, but I actually straightforwardly said I didn't think that). But I'll tell you what else I do. I love to praise parts of this team that I believe are exceptional. I've said I thought this might be the best OL they've had since the 80s (too soon to say for sure, they have to come through, but it's shaping up nice). No one thought I was contrary then. I said that Olson improved the playcalling and got better and better at using the skills of their wide receivers. No one thought I was contrary then. I said I thought Carriker could play on the inside---because I was defending our first round pick, some disagreed, but no one thought I was contrary. Etc. etc. I have said that if posters like a topic they should just run with it, and shouldnt be judged for their interest...like the Wroten thread (a topic which had the longest, most viewed threads on every single Rams board on the net that keeps view counts, including this one) ....why am I the contrary one there, and not the people who make fun of the large group that is interested in the discussion? And so on. It is true that I am not shy about saying something controversial, but I am not shy about saying what's really good and fun about following this team, either.

    Give me time. I grow on you. I ain't the Officer McClane some wanta make me out to be. You and I may even agree a lot some day on something.

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