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  1. #61
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    you make some great points and your reasons for not supporting the team are right on the mark also,i just don't think fans should give up on the team,and i also suffered through the 90's and if we can make it through that,this should be a piece of cake.


  2. #62
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Or the beginning of a long, dark winter...
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  3. #63
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    There isn't really much of a challenge present here.

    It's fairly straightforward to lay into a set of players for what is essentially not winning, it's even more straightforward to lay into the coach on the basis that it's his name above the door.

    To be fair, some of those who are expressing their disappointment before our current travails were doing so when we were 4-1. They were concerned with the fact that we were'nt blowing teams away by a more convincing margin when we were winning. So, there is an element of consistency here, but not necessarily in the way that you might think. The consistency to me, lies in the fact that the basis of both criticisms are founded in an unrealistic evaluation of the talent present on our football team.

    Whether we are talking about aging veterans or young talent, this has led some to the conclusion that we should be challenging for a playoff spot. To me it's unrealistic, with this group of players to insist that you should be competing every week, let alone winning every week. For those who would seek to paint their objections as concerned with the manner in which the team is playing rather than not winning every week, I would point them to the reaction that has greeted every loss this season and the opprobrium it has attracted. People have consistently attempted to paint virtually every loss as the result of a lack of coaching savvy, whilst at the same time varnishing every win as a win despite the coaching.

    Consistently inconsistent in my opinion, but I'm aware I'm banging a lone drum here .

    To assert, as is often done so when a team isn't winning, that they just aren't trying is all too easy to do. If the talent on this team was as self-evident as some would have you believe, then a lack of effort wouldn't hinder it. The fact remains, and this has been echoed by Dez in what I saw as a very pertinent comment, that we play to our talent level. All that you can expect from a coach is that occasionally he gets the team to play above their talent level and there aren't many coaches that consistently do that in this league.

    The basis of people's problems with Linehan is that we aren't winning. The basis of our failure to win is that we aren't blessed with a level of talent qacross the board that allows us to do so. Assertions to the contrary invariably centre on our offensive skill position players and one of our O-linemen and this just isnt enough.

    We are used to winning around here and we are losing.

    You don't like it.

    I don't like it.

    But................

    If you don't appreciate that we don't have the playing talent to win consistently and consistently pin it on coaching, then I'm afraid that you are harking after a coaching carousel of mediocrity such as that we saw in the 90's.

    We have not seen enough of Linehan to judge whether he can create the right recipe for success or not.

    Leadership is about more than bawling out your players in public and shaking your fist in front of a TV camera. Let's see what more Linehan can offer before being so quick to throw him back to assistantville.

  4. #64
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    I can appreciate the talent level questioning but I don't have to agree with it.
    I think we have talent on this team and alot of it. Potentially 6-8 Pro Bowlers this year.:x

    Now let's do some comparisons concerning The HC Scott Linehan.:x

    How are the Jets doing with their Rookie Head Coach? Before the season started the Jets were picked for the Cellar in the AFC East. Their talent level was measured as very weak. To make matters worse they lost their starting RB Curtis Martin for the season. By the way their Rookie Head Coach was a Defensive Coordinator the year before.:x

    How are the New Orleans Saints making out this season with their Rookie Head Coach? Don't try and tell me anyone predicted the success the Saints are having this season. As a matter of fact the Saints defense coming into this season was ranked as one of the worst in the NFL before the season started. Oh and by the way the Rookie Head Coach of the Saints was a Defensive Coordinator???:x

    Start to see a trend here? :\

    It may not seem fair but it seems like we should have went after that guy from the Bears, Ron Rivera -Defensive Coordinator.:x

  5. #65
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I can appreciate the talent level questioning but I don't have to agree with it.
    I think we have talent on this team and alot of it. Potentially 6-8 Pro Bowlers this year.:x

    Now let's do some comparisons concerning The HC Scott Linehan.:x

    How are the Jets doing with their Rookie Head Coach? Before the season started the Jets were picked for the Cellar in the AFC East. Their talent level was measured as very weak. To make matters worse they lost their starting RB Curtis Martin for the season. By the way their Rookie Head Coach was a Defensive Coordinator the year before.:x

    How are the New Orleans Saints making out this season with their Rookie Head Coach? Don't try and tell me anyone predicted the success the Saints are having this season. As a matter of fact the Saints defense coming into this season was ranked as one of the worst in the NFL before the season started. Oh and by the way the Rookie Head Coach of the Saints was a Defensive Coordinator???:x

    Start to see a trend here? :\

    It may not seem fair but it seems like we should have went after that guy from the Bears, Ron Rivera -Defensive Coordinator.:x
    The trend is a coincidence. To think if we had a defensive guy instead that things would be better is a stretch.

    Let's look at the Saints and their defensive minded head coach like you brought up, the Saints D is BAD this year, they can't stop anyone. They are giving up 21 points a game on average. Only 4 teams have given up more TDs than the Saints. They are just scoring more points...how you may ask??? They got rid of Aaron Brooks and brought in Brees, that was a major upgrade and the best signing of the year. They also got Bush (and still have Deuce), and found a couple of diamonds in the rough with Henderson and Colston. So their D is still bad but their coach is a defensive guy hmmmmmm.

    If we had an O line like they do, we would be playing the same way, outscoring everyone. Brees has only been sacked 14 times, Bulger has been sacked FOURTY ONE times. If Bulger had Brees's time we would be winning just like they do, and not with defense.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  6. #66
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    The trend is a coincidence. To think if we had a defensive guy instead that things would be better is a stretch.

    Let's look at the Saints and their defensive minded head coach like you brought up, the Saints D is BAD this year, they can't stop anyone. They are giving up 21 points a game on average. Only 4 teams have given up more TDs than the Saints. They are just scoring more points...how you may ask??? They got rid of Aaron Brooks and brought in Brees, that was a major upgrade and the best signing of the year. They also got Bush (and still have Deuce), and found a couple of diamonds in the rough with Henderson and Colston. So their D is still bad but their coach is a defensive guy hmmmmmm.

    If we had an O line like they do, we would be playing the same way, outscoring everyone. Brees has only been sacked 14 times, Bulger has been sacked FOURTY ONE times. If Bulger had Brees's time we would be winning just like they do, and not with defense.
    Saints defense is currently ranked 7th for points allowed in the NFC. They've allowed 26 less points then our Rams.

    Any Pro Bowlers are their offensive line ??


    And the Jets....??
    Last edited by laram0; -12-05-2006 at 09:00 PM.

  7. #67
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    And the Jets....??
    What about the Jets? Their D isn't great either, they are giving up 20 points a game and are 5th from the bottom in yards given up per game on D. You missed the point, it's a coincidence that they happen to be defensive coordinators and doing well because they haven't done much on D. You would think because they were D guys they would improve the D. So suggesting that a D guy would have turned us around just because he is a D guy is a stretch.

    If you want a trend look at the O line and sacks given up, Brees 14, Pennington 23, Bulger 41.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  8. #68
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    Saints defense is currently ranked 7th for points allowed in the NFC. They've allowed 26 less points then our Rams.

    Any Pro Bowlers are their offensive line ??
    Ok so they have allowed 26 points less than us, that is still BAD. Only 4 teams have allowed more TDs than the Saints. This is the NFL not the NFC so that doesn't make your point. Their D is bad and their coach hasn't exactly turned it around from last year, it's all about their O, that's why they are winning games.

    Pro bowlers??? You realize that it's a popularity contest right (Why do you think Ryan Pickett didn't make it last year). Our line has given up 41 sacks, nobody on a line with that amount and counting should make the pro bowl. Their line is quality, playing good football and protecting Brees, they are winning due to that reason.

    So again their head coach is a D guy but it's not the D that is winning games.
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  9. #69
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    How are the New Orleans Saints making out this season with their Rookie Head Coach? Don't try and tell me anyone predicted the success the Saints are having this season. As a matter of fact the Saints defense coming into this season was ranked as one of the worst in the NFL before the season started. Oh and by the way the Rookie Head Coach of the Saints was a Defensive Coordinator???:x

    Start to see a trend here? :\
    Considering the rookie head coach of the New Orleans Saints is Sean Payton, who prior to taking the Saints job served as the assistant head coach, quarterbacks coach, and passing game coordinator in charge of offensive play calling for the Dallas Cowboys, all this after serving as QB coach and offensive coordinator for four years in New York, no I don't see a trend at all.
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  10. #70
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Considering the rookie head coach of the New Orleans Saints is Sean Payton, who prior to taking the Saints job served as the assistant head coach, quarterbacks coach, and passing game coordinator in charge of offensive play calling for the Dallas Cowboys, all this after serving as QB coach and offensive coordinator for four years in New York, no I don't see a trend at all.
    Hehe nice catch, I don't know why but I was thinking Payton came from the D side of the Giants, maybe Laram0 was thinking the same, I'm not sure (I'm getting old I guess). :\

    My point still stands that just because you bring in a guy who's specialty is D doesn't mean he would be a better choice. Marinelli came from a great D in Tampa but now how are the Lions doing?
    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  11. #71
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Hehe nice catch, I don't know why but I was thinking Payton came from the D side of the Giants, maybe Laram0 was thinking the same, I'm not sure (I'm getting old I guess). :\

    My point still stands that just because you bring in a guy who's specialty is D doesn't mean he would be a better choice. Marinelli came from a great D in Tampa but now how are the Lions doing?
    Exactly. Just to further elaborate on this idea of defensive head coaches having better chances for success, let's look at a few more examples.

    How is former Patriot defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel doing in Cleveland? Crennel was the defensive coordinator for three Super Bowl champion teams, surely he's doing well, right? First year of the Crennel regime: 6-10. Second year? 4-8 so far. Rumors of a firing are already swirling.

    What about Mike Nolan? He spent three years as the defensive coordinator for the stingy Baltimore Ravens defense. How's he doing in the bay area? With four games left in his second season, Nolan is still looking for his tenth win.

    So I really don't see a trend to suggest that we should have went after a defensive guy. Clearly there are talented defensive minds who find themselves struggling as head coaches, and until Rivera actually takes a job and does something as a head coach, we have no idea how well he would have done here.

    There is something that I think LA pointed out that I definitely agree with though. This team could have a number of Pro Bowlers. With only a slight hint of bias, I believe I voted for seven Rams that I thought were deserving or at worst had a case.

    But unfortunately, you don't play football with 6-8 players. You play football with 53 players and 22 starters. That's not to say you need a team full of Pro Bowlers to succeed, but on the other hand, having six all-pro caliber players isn't going to lead you to success either if the rest of your squad is lacking.
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  12. #72
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Exactly. Just to further elaborate on this idea of defensive head coaches having better chances for success, let's look at a few more examples.

    How is former Patriot defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel doing in Cleveland? Crennel was the defensive coordinator for three Super Bowl champion teams, surely he's doing well, right? First year of the Crennel regime: 6-10. Second year? 4-8 so far. Rumors of a firing are already swirling.

    What about Mike Nolan? He spent three years as the defensive coordinator for the stingy Baltimore Ravens defense. How's he doing in the bay area? With four games left in his second season, Nolan is still looking for his tenth win.

    So I really don't see a trend to suggest that we should have went after a defensive guy. Clearly there are talented defensive minds who find themselves struggling as head coaches, and until Rivera actually takes a job and does something as a head coach, we have no idea how well he would have done here.
    I don't think you can compare the talent level on the Rams to the Lions,Browns or Whiners. On either side of the ball.

  13. #73
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    I don't know Scott, but from afar what I like is that:
    1) He is level headed - no highs or lows. Yes he could be a little more animated, but this was not a concern when he was hired.
    2) He has not yet openly critisized the players "in the open" - we do not know what he says behond closed doors. They do need a kick in their collective butts.
    3) I like his game management (much better than Martz).
    4) For the most part he has come through on his idea of a balanced attack.
    5) This is his first year and the problems and players he inherited were not of his choosing. Still -I do not hear him complaining.

    The guy is a rookie coach, with somewhat marginal talent on the defense. They won some games they should have lost and lost some they should have won. It's hard to lose to the Yardbirds, but the D is pathetic and the o-line reminds me of Swiss Cheese. The Rams are a 7-9/8-8 team - you can't expect 12-4.

    Still further - they could not stop the run or tackle before SL - that has not changed - is that SL's fault or Haslett's? Maybe Haslet is the problem ??!!
    Last edited by AugustaRamFan; -12-06-2006 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #74
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    If you start with the premise that the Rams don't have sufficient talent to be in the playoff hunt then... yes... Linehan deserves to stay.

    I just don't see it that way. Look at the teams the Rams have lost to:

    @San Francisco
    Seattle (w/out Alexander)
    Kansas City (w/out Trent Green)
    @San Diego
    @Seattle (w/out Hasselbeck or Alexander)
    @Carolina
    Arizona

    How many of those teams clearly have superior talent? San Diego? Probably. Carolina? Maybe.

    Now look at how the Rams won their games against teams like San Francisco, Arizona, Detroit and Green Bay (all below .500 teams). Not one of those wins was well in hand until the end of the game.

    So, I have to disagree with Dez.

    The Rams have not played in a manner consistent with the team's talent.

  15. #75
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post

    If you want a trend look at the O line and sacks given up, Brees 14, Pennington 23, Bulger 41.
    Our O-line has had it's problems (injuries) I'll give you that.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought Linehan was brought in because of his OC experience? Thus keeping our high potent offense potent. Jim Haslett ( A take charge guy) the former HC and DC was brought in to run the DC job allowing Linehan to learn from Haslett but still concentrate on the O. With Linehans approach to protecting the ball and somewhat handcuffing Bulger and our receivers our offense has taken a giant step backwards. Again, I agree our O-line has allowed far to many sacks. I just wonder how many have been caused by Bulgers (protect the ball) mentality??? Instilled by Linehan to the entire offense.

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