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  1. #76
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Potentially 6-8 Pro Bowlers this year
    I will name two you name the rest, Holt and Pace.


    @San Francisco Less
    Seattle (w/out Alexander) Still More
    Kansas City (w/out Trent Green) Equal
    @San Diego Way More
    @Seattle (w/out Hasselbeck or Alexander) Still More
    @Carolina Way More
    Arizona Less


  2. #77
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Don't agree with you on Seattle minus their QB and/or RB, but even if we take your assessment, that means the Rams should be 7-5 or 8-4, instead of 5-7.

  3. #78
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Don't agree with you on Seattle minus their QB and/or RB, but even if we take your assessment, that means the Rams should be 7-5 or 8-4, instead of 5-7.
    I agree with that record it could be better, but here is the thing. Doesnít it really come down to 3 or 4 plays in a single game?

    We could have lost a few more games and we could have beaten Hawks twice, 90-yard punt return and a 60-yard FG.

    The margin for victor seems to hinge on a few plays, bad call, and a little luck. I look at the records of the teams this year; few are clearly better then the rest. These days all we can ask for is to be in the game and have a shot to win it and for the most part we have been in all but a couple of games.

  4. #79
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I don't think you can compare the talent level on the Rams to the Lions,Browns or Whiners. On either side of the ball.
    The debate wasn't about talent level though. We were talking about trend. The trend being pointed out was the success of defensive minded coaches on new teams, and I brought up multiple examples of that not being the case. Talent or not, there's no tangible reason to think Rivera would have done better or that any defensive coach could have done better. Haslett is a defensive minded coach... how's he doing with our 11 starters on that side of the ball?

    There's an old adage that the back-up quarterback is the most popular player on the team, and I think the same logic can be applied here. Our team isn't doing well, so it's easy to say we should have hired someone else.

    But the bottom line is Rivera hasn't done anything as a head coach, and until he does, it's impossible to speculate on how good a coach he'll be. One might even suggest that his not being hired this offseason could be a reflection of what organizations across the league think of him as a head coach candidate, but I wouldn't really go that far either.
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  5. #80
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The debate wasn't about talent level though. We were talking about trend. The trend being pointed out was the success of defensive minded coaches on new teams, and I brought up multiple examples of that not being the case. Talent or not, there's no tangible reason to think Rivera would have done better or that any defensive coach could have done better. Haslett is a defensive minded coach... how's he doing with our 11 starters on that side of the ball?

    There's an old adage that the back-up quarterback is the most popular player on the team, and I think the same logic can be applied here. Our team isn't doing well, so it's easy to say we should have hired someone else.

    But the bottom line is Rivera hasn't done anything as a head coach, and until he does, it's impossible to speculate on how good a coach he'll be. One might even suggest that his not being hired this offseason could be a reflection of what organizations across the league think of him as a head coach candidate, but I wouldn't really go that far either.
    Talent level was referred to because the talent on the Rams is better than the Whiners, Browns etc.. The new HC had a much better chance of showing improvement with the Rams because of that fact. Also you're right Rivera doesn't have any Head Coaching experience. Neither did Linehan. Haslett isn't doing a good job? I would give him a grade of D. How much free reign does Haslett have though? He's not the Head Coach.

    I'm undecided about Linehan. Reason being he came here and messed up our offense. That's the last thing I expected from a former OC. I really thought he might tweak the O a little and focus on the D and Special teams. Seems like his focus was on the O which he handcuffed.
    Last edited by laram0; -12-07-2006 at 08:59 AM.

  6. #81
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    Talent level was referred to because the talent on the Rams is better than the Whiners, Browns etc..
    Yet Crennel and Nolan have had double the opportunity to build their team. Two free agency periods, two drafts. I would contend that both have better rťsumťs than Linehan as well. Result? They're not succeeding. The point being even some of the brightest and most promising coordinators can struggle to find success and need to be given some time to shape their team according to their vision.

    You're right in that we have talent on this team. Unfortunately, the talent is in the wrong place if we want to be serious contenders. I believe it's a pretty well known football saying that games are won and lost in the trenches. So let's look at our trenches. Two great players out of nine on both sides of the ball. That's it. The seven others are average, maybe slightly above, or worse.

    And that certainly has an effect on what we're capable of doing on a football team. You can have the most talented quarterback, running back, and receivers, but if your offensive line can't adequately protect the passer or consistently open holes for the runner, your offense is going to falter. You can have the most talented linebackers in the world, but if your D-linemen are getting blown off the ball and can't occupy blockers to let those linebackers roam free, they're not going to be effective. The secondary is solid but is certainly not talented enough to make up for the line's inconsistent if not inadequate pass rush.

    So yes, we have talent. But on offense we have it centered at the skill positions. So do the Arizona Cardinals. Skill position talent does not automatically equate to success. At the positions that really matter, that really set the tone for everything else you do offensively and defensively, we're very lacking, and it's definitely having a major impact on what our talented players are accomplishing.


    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    Also you're right Rivera doesn't have any Head Coaching experience. Neither did Linehan.
    ...okay? The point of my bringing up Rivera's lack of head coaching experience was to try and get to the bottom of this comment: "...it seems like we should have went after that guy from the Bears, Ron Rivera -Defensive Coordinator." I just don't see a convincing reason as to why it seems we should have gone after him, especially since (1) we've pretty much sunk the idea of a trend of defensive coaches succeeding in head coaching jobs and (2) Rivera didn't get hired by someone else and is back on the Bears staff.


    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    Haslett isn't doing a good job? I would give him a grade of D. How much free reign does Haslett have though? He's not the Head Coach.
    I would wager Haslett was pretty influential in bringing in Witherspoon (an NFC South guy he saw twice a year), Glover (former Saint), and Brown (former Saint). But I digress. My point in bringing up Haslett was to illustrate that even established defensive coaches who bring in talent upgrades don't always find success. Just another reason why I'm unconvinced Rivera would have produced significantly different results.
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  7. #82
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Saying Glover is a talent upgrade is a bit of a reach, No???

  8. #83
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're right in that we have talent on this team. Unfortunately, the talent is in the wrong place if we want to be serious contenders. I believe it's a pretty well known football saying that games are won and lost in the trenches. So let's look at our trenches. Two great players out of nine on both sides of the ball. That's it. The seven others are average, maybe slightly above, or worse.
    2 out 9 great players in the trenches is probably not far off from the league average. The same can probably be said for the other 7? I will say we've learned thanks to Marc Bulger that the problem is the attitude. Shouldn't this fall under the Head Coach?
    Last edited by laram0; -12-07-2006 at 07:59 PM.

  9. #84
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    2 out 9 great players in the trenches is probably not far off from the league average.
    It's not the two I'm concerned with. It's the seven others who are average, some perhaps slightly better, some slightly worse. We're not talking about the league average, though. We're talking about successful teams. I think you would be hard pressed to find a team succeeding in this league in spite of line play that resembles ours on either side of the ball.


    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I will say we've learned thanks to Marc Bulger that the problem is the attitude. Shouldn't this fall under the Head Coach?
    Since you trust Marc Bulger's word, he also said this, "Weíve said stuff to people. Coaches have. But the coaches arenít on the field. Coach Linehan has addressed so many issues. Heís made a point of it. So many things. He can only beat it in so much. Itís your job. And when you donít approach football like a job and just think youíre on scholarship, thatís the problem."
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  10. #85
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post

    Since you trust Marc Bulger's word, he also said this, "Weíve said stuff to people. Coaches have. But the coaches arenít on the field. Coach Linehan has addressed so many issues. Heís made a point of it. So many things. He can only beat it in so much. Itís your job. And when you donít approach football like a job and just think youíre on scholarship, thatís the problem."

    What's the old saying? It's not what you say it's how you say it. Given the low key, unemotional, Bulger-esque press conferences we hear and view of Scott Linehan. The, I thinks and blah, blah, blah, I'm curious how the players accept this approach from their Head Coach. In one ear and out the other?
    According to Bulger that's what seems to be happening. Linehan in my opinion needs to figure out how to get the total attention from the entire roster. Every player on this team has a different personality and level of talent/intelligence. It's up to Linehan to find out what works for each and everyone of them. From and old Seinfeld episode... Linehan is getting Yada Yada-d?

  11. #86
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    What's the old saying? It's not what you say it's how you say it. Given the low key, unemotional, Bulger-esque press conferences we hear and view of Scott Linehan. The, I thinks and blah, blah, blah, I'm curious how the players accept this approach from their Head Coach. In one ear and out the other?
    According to Bulger that's what seems to be happening. Linehan in my opinion needs to figure out how to get the total attention from the entire roster. Every player on this team has a different personality and level of talent/intelligence. It's up to Linehan to find out what works for each and everyone of them. From and old Seinfeld episode... Linehan is getting Yada Yada-d?
    That's just it though, all you know is what you hear in press conferences and interviews. You have no idea how Linehan is behind closed doors with players, you just assume he's the same. Sometimes there is nothing that can be said to motivate some players, and from what Bulger said it sounds like Linehan has been trying many different ways to get his point across.
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  12. #87
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    That's just it though, all you know is what you hear in press conferences and interviews. You have no idea how Linehan is behind closed doors with players, you just assume he's the same. Sometimes there is nothing that can be said to motivate some players, and from what Bulger said it sounds like Linehan has been trying many different ways to get his point across.
    I have a pretty strong feeling that Linehan is a what you see is what you get type of guy. Explains why Marc did what he did.

  13. #88
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I have a pretty strong feeling that Linehan is a what you see is what you get type of guy. Explains why Marc did what he did.
    So like I said you don't really know, no outsider knows. Or Marc did it because Linehan has already done it over and over again in different ways. Sometimes players just won't listen, especially some of the "new breed" younger players. So maybe Linehan tries multiple ideas over the past weeks and still nothing because they just don't care. You can't force someone to care. Bulger keeps getting killed and finally gets fed up and rips them to shreds due to frustration over the players not playing, not Linehan not trying.

    My point is it seems you already have your mind made up that Linehan is the same way in the media as he is behind closed doors with his players. You can't just assume that's true, and assume he hasn't done much to correct the situation. If Bulger or any player (besides the ones who don't care) complained about Linehan, then I would question Linehan, but Bulger has backed him and said he has tried over and over again. That's more concrete than just assuming because Linehan has blah press conferences he is the same with his players behind closed doors.
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  14. #89
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    Re: A challenge from SLOP

    Linehan's style behind closed doors will probably always be a mystery to us. I don't see any players speaking out in public about their Head Coach. At least not any Rams players. Maybe we could borrow T.O. for a day or so?

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