Company Line on Holt doesn't Wash

[Barry Waller]

Sorry, but I'm not buying into all the company talk that says Torry Holt is no longer a #1 receiver, that he somehow has lost enough to become ineffective at age 32. That idea, that many in the media seem to be swallowing right now, seems to forget the Rams problems at quarterback, especially in the red zone, and ignores that Holt was playing across from rookies mostly. It ignores the fact that his yards per catch were right at the same number it has been for three years.

It also ignores the fact that it's not unusual, and in fact is common for teams to take that opinion, only to see some 'aging” receivers again put up big numbers, often after being let go from original teams.

Here are just a few examples:

Charlie Joiner age 32 72-1001-4 previous two years averaged 34-600-3
Randy Moss Age 30 98-1493-23 previous 3 years avg 50 rec
Jerry Rice Age 39 83-1139-9 previous 2 years avg 70-820-6
Wesley Walker Age 31 49-1016-12 prev yr 34-725-5
Stanley Morgan Age 31 84-1491-10 prev 2 yr avg 39-720-5
Joey Galloway Age 34 83-1287-10 prev 2 yr avg 33-530-4
Irving Fryar Age 32 73-1270-7 Prev 2 yrs 62-900-4
James Lofton Age 35 57=1072-8
Art Monk Age 34 71-1049-8 prev yr 68-770-5
John Stallworth Age 32 0-1395-11 inj prev 2 years
Henry Ellard Age 33 74-1397-6 Avg prev 2 yrs 54-830-3
Michael Irvin Age 31 75-1180-9 prev 2yr avg 64-962-2
Tommy McDonald Age 31 67-1036-9 avg prev 2 yr 43-670-5


We are going to see Torry Holt have another big year, too bad it can't be here.
I doubt all those saying he is done won't admit they did.

[AvengerRam]

I don't know if he's done or not. It just seems like he's done with the Rams. If he had not stated that he wanted to be released, I'd have no problem with the Rams keeping him.

[Rambunctious]

Except for a few fans I don't know of any "company" talk that says Holt is washed up. He will produce good, maybe even very good, numbers next year. Any debate about whether or not those numbers will be worth 6 to 8 million dollars is also pointless.

The Rams are basically broke.

We have less than 3 million left and we need at least 6 or 7 to sign the rookies from the draft. Plus we still need a back-up QB, Butler and several other players for depth at positions.

So we need about 8 million more to make this all happen. So what do you do? We could cut several players to add up to this amount but your just creating more holes or you can look at the one guy you can let go and all your problems are solved.

I love Holt but it's just economics at this point.

I think they will only get rid of Pace if they can get some value for him other than cap space. If there is no trade I doubt we just cut him out right.

(Figures may be off and math may be fuzzy be the general idea remains.)

[itsguud]

Holt will be fantastic again with a new team.. I am extremely sad he wants out but I wish him the best. I also wish he would visit this forum just to see how much he means to the fans who also had to endure the Linehan era!

[thoey]

Maybe I am the only one that saw it or will say I did, but last year Torry had a problem getting separation. Please don't get me wrong, I love Torry and wish he would finish his career as a Ram as long as it would be cost friendly to the team. I can see him easily replacing Emmitt as a analyst on NFL network, and I would love his commentary. But, in this business, he is no longer a #1 wide receiver and should not be paid so.

[NJ Ramsfan1]

Good post, Barry. It's nice to see some facts backing the sentiment that Holt, while maybe not the guy who will get 1600 yards receiving in a season anymore can still be a #1 guy. Much nicer than some other threads suggesting Holt "quit" on the team last year and refusing to acknowledge that he still led the Rams in yardage and receptions despite the problems we had with the line and Bulger.

It is unfortunate he will no longer be a Ram, but it's an understood part of the business and maybe a different address will be a fresh start for both him and the Rams. I'll root for him wherever he goes.

[RamWraith]

I think you are unfortunately right Barry. I think people are looking for excuses and reasons to make the hurt go away. I am not sure how else to put it. We are all looking for change...but the unfortunate thing is for change to happen sacrifices need to made and Holt just happens to be the lamb.

[Ramblin` Ram]

unlike Lambs that get sacrificed tho Holt has asked to be cut...i love Torry and what he has given us but i love the Rams more than any player that has ever played for them.
if he was willing to re-structure then i would have loved for him to stay but he simply is not worth the money that we would have to pay him to keep him,when we have so many other needs that some can be addressed with the money we would be otherwise spending on him.

although he isnt the player he was,he is not washed up by any means...just the salary cap space has more chance of getting us wins than Holt alone at this point of his career.

[rampower]

Ther is no way Holt is not a numbr 1 guy. Of course he is! I have not heard anybody here say holt is 'done' or finished as a goto guy. He is only 32. If somebody thinks he may not be quite as good as he was 10 years ago, then maybe so, but he is still an elite receiver. He is only one year older than Houshmanzadeh and a better receiver in my mind.

That said he might be finished as a ram, probably more to do with the need for cap space and the supposed new direction for the offense.

Is it beyond reason that he might want out after the last 2 jokes of a season?
At 32 he probably realises that his years as a number 1 receiver may only ammount to another 4 or 5 years. Maybe he wants to go somewhere to win.

I do find it odd that there has been no talk of cotract negotiations last year or this.

He is far from done. But the only message we are getting out of rams park/media outlets is that he is going to traded or released. It can only b a cap issue, it cant be a performance issue. We got nobody better than Torry.

[maineram]

Why would Devaney put out there that the Rams believe he's washed up ? Doesn't make sense that they wouldn't want to let others know he's in the plans as our #1 reciever. Even trying to restructure to stay in St. Louis. Do I believe he's a #1, sure but depends on who is #2 & 3. Getting double teamed every game with no other proven receiver would drop any recievers game down. Add in the no time to throw the ball, and your top back has a boo boo, it's a recipe for disaster for an offense.

I don't think he's worth 6 mil this year to stay. Restrucuring would get nearly that with a 2-3 year deal, and the bonus he'd receive. Torry being pretty quiet about the whole thing is puzzling. Why not just come out and say what is going on and the direction he's thinking ? Seems quite out of character for him I think.

Maineram -

[general counsel]

Maineram makes a great point. Holts production depends a LOT on who is the #2 and 3 receivers. It also depends on the running game and of course, the pass protection.

I think when people say holt isnt a #1 anymore (me included) many are referring to the fact that at this point he has lost his speed and he is a pure possession receiver. Potentially the best possession receiver in the nfl, but a possession receiver who really doesnt stretch the field at all. To me, you cant be a true #1 if you can stretch the field and cant break away for big gaines after the catch and that has NOTHING to do with your age. When was the last time anyone saw holt make a tackler miss after the catch? Holt is not as good as he was, not even close, which of course doesnt mean that he cant put up big numbers, which he can and probably will on the right team.

ramming speed to all

general counsel

[RamsInfiniti]

Washed up? No. What you what in your #1 receiver? No.

Go back and watch the tapes from last year. Either way there is a problem because:

1. His physical skills are detoriating and his ability to get separation and generate YAC have declined. Even when Holt did get open last year, he was not able to do anything with the ball. His production did start to increase towards the later part of the season when more attention was being paid to Avery, who in my opinion was the #1. That in itself proves Holt to be the #2 because the double teams were going Avery's way.

Or:

2. His decreasing physical skills are a myth, and he was not giving it his all last season. This is worse than option #1.

Holt at this point in his career could be a superb possession received on a squad that has a multitude of weapons, a solid line, and a good QB. He could even catch 100 balls, but I doubt you'd see more than 11-12 yards per catch ...

Holt is not washed up, but he has no place on this current Rams squad. Sorry, but that is the harsh reality. It's time to move on ...

[HornIt]

Company line?

Hardly.

Holt himself has said he's not the same player he once was.

Holt himself has said he wants out.

That's the Holt line, not the company line.

And I'm looking at your list there and I'm having a hard time finding one of them that had a chronic, degenerative knee issue that had to be managed continuously and that clearly robbed them of their speed and ability to get separation.

Holt still knows how to find soft spots in a zone defense and he still has good hands. He'll make some team a nice savvy veteran #2 or #3 WR for another year or two, but it won't be at $8 million per year because he's simply not worth that anymore. If he was, there would be a few teams interested in making a deal for him at that price tag. So this must also be the company line of 31 other teams we're talking about here.

[r8rh8rmike]

But, in this business, he is no longer a #1 wide receiver and should not be paid so.

This is the way I see it as well. I think he's still going to be productive, but as a complementary player, not as a main weapon in the classic sense of a #1 receiver.

[r8rh8rmike]

Holt still knows how to find soft spots in a zone defense and he still has good hands. He'll make some team a nice savvy veteran #2 or #3 WR for another year or two, but it won't be at $8 million per year because he's simply not worth that anymore. If he was, there would be a few teams interested in making a deal for him at that price tag. So this must also be the company line of 31 other teams we're talking about here.

I was thinking the same thing. If any teams really coveted him as a #1, wouldn't they try and make a deal now, before he goes on the open market where anything can happen?