Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: Cornerbacks

  1. #1
    btimsah Guest

    Cornerbacks

    I know our Pass rush isn't great, but you can't have a great pass rush if the opposing QB can find someone open within 2-4 seconds on every pass play.

    We have, what 1 sack after two games? Leonard Little is supposed to be a great pass rusher and I think he still is, but the secondary (Corners) can't cover long enough often to force any coverage sacks.

    Are there any big name corners available via free-agency next year?


  2. #2
    npow81 Guest

    Re: Cornerbacks

    If you asked me what was the bigger problem pass rush or pass defense I would say by far the pass rush...Wade has played really well the first two games, Bartell a bit iffy for the #1 but not terrible and Otogwe and Butler have been pretty decent in my opinion.

  3. #3
    btimsah Guest

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by npow81 View Post
    If you asked me what was the bigger problem pass rush or pass defense I would say by far the pass rush...Wade has played really well the first two games, Bartell a bit iffy for the #1 but not terrible and Otogwe and Butler have been pretty decent in my opinion.
    Uh, no. This is a common misconception. Wade and Bartell, even at their best are not shutdown corners. People are running wide open, or just open enough within 1-4 seconds from the snap. You can't expect your pass rush to get there that fast.

  4. #4
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
    RamsInfiniti is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    R.I.P.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    77

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Uh, no. This is a common misconception. Wade and Bartell, even at their best are not shutdown corners. People are running wide open, or just open enough within 1-4 seconds from the snap. You can't expect your pass rush to get there that fast.
    Really, an honest question? Do you even watch the games? I have already pointed out a few reasons why I think you don't. Never, ever in my history of watching football have I seen/heard somebody blame a lack of pass rush on lackluster play from defensive backs. Amazing ...

    If you did watch the games, and actually paid attention, you would see what is going on with our pass defense. There was moderate improvement from week 1 to week 2.

    Go watch the games, or watch them again, then we'll talk about this. Wade and Bartell are doing a fine job together ...

    As for Bartell, he was as good a "shutdown" corner as any in the league last year. He's been ok this year, early in the season, new scheme ...

    Wade is in his first season as a starter. He has three passes defensed in two games, amongst the league leaders. How can you make an assumption about him?
    Last edited by RamsInfiniti; -09-24-2009 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #5
    btimsah Guest

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Really, an honest question? Do you even watch the games? I have already pointed out a few reasons why I think you don't. Never, ever in my history of watching football have I seen/heard somebody blame a lack of pass rush on lackluster play from defensive backs. Amazing ...

    If you did watch the games, and actually paid attention, you would see what is going on with our pass defense. There was moderate improvement from week 1 to week 2.

    Go watch the games, or watch them again, then we'll talk about this. Wade and Bartell are doing a fine job together ...

    As for Bartell, he was as good a "shutdown" corner as any in the league last year. He's been ok this year, early in the season, new scheme ...

    Wade is in his first season as a starter. He has three passes defensed in two games, amongst the league leaders. How can you make an assumption about him?
    Oh, so now we have one of the top shutdown corners in the league? Wow. Infinity, it's amazing what you will come up with in order to find some way to ridicule and disagree with any and everything I say. You're so transparent. We have the 25th rated pass defense in the league, so Do you watch the games? Oh let me quess, we have top corners but their only rated 25th in pass defense because of everybody else, EXCEPT OUR CORNERS? You live in a real fantasy land. It's the same with Bulger, blame everybody else but him. And finally; If you can't understand the concept of a coverage sack, then I don't think it matters how much football you watch.

  6. #6
    AvengerRam's Avatar
    AvengerRam is online now Moderator Emeritus
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Longwood, Florida, United States
    Age
    46
    Posts
    18,952
    Rep Power
    170

    Re: Cornerbacks

    In two games, the Rams have allowed only 2 completions of 20 or more yards (21 and 24) to WRs.

    That tells me that the CBs are mostly giving up the dink and dunk type of throws. The only way you can prevent those types of throws is to get in the QB's face... something the Rams have not done.

  7. #7
    codeman123's Avatar
    codeman123 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    canada
    Age
    24
    Posts
    500
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Cornerbacks

    The rams rank 8th in covering #1 wrs and 11th in covering #2 wrs. I think those are pretty good numbers, especially considering we have no pass rush. Our problem is covering te's and rb's, which are corners do not do.

  8. #8
    btimsah Guest

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In two games, the Rams have allowed only 2 completions of 20 or more yards (21 and 24) to WRs.

    That tells me that the CBs are mostly giving up the dink and dunk type of throws. The only way you can prevent those types of throws is to get in the QB's face... something the Rams have not done.
    Yes, they've run mostly cover 2 man which takes away the deep ball and to be fair they have covered those much better than they have last year.

    But see, this is what always happens to our defense. In years past our defensive coordinators would keep going from one thing to another to figure out how to get that magical mix of coverage and pass rush.

    They blitz, exposing our horrible corners. They sit back and pick us apart exposing our weak defensive line AND corners. We go back and forth with that routinely. I think Spags is gonna run a bend but don't break defense because he almost has too. He doesn't have the corners to leave them on islands which means we can't bring a bunch of heat without risking getting burnt.

    I hope we address our corner issue, but as I said in the other thread the defensive line needs help too. Its just odd that the corner position get's far too ignored when talking about our pass defense. Dink and dunk passes must be stopped on occasion too...

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    32
    Posts
    19,806
    Rep Power
    154

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Please keep this discussion civil. Posts that do not do so will be deleted.


    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Are there any big name corners available via free-agency next year?
    Dunta Robinson (Texans), Marlin Jackson (Colts), Ellis Hobbs (Eagles), Nick Harper (Titans), Walt Harris (*****), Richard Marshall (Panthers), Leigh Bodden (Patriots), and William Gay (Steelers) are some of the more recognizable names in the secondary scheduled for free agency in 2010.

  10. #10
    RebelYell's Avatar
    RebelYell is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    St. Louis ,Missouri
    Posts
    2,411
    Rep Power
    45

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Our LBers covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield are a FAR larger problem than our DBs. The DBs have played well so bashing them is just silly at this point. I don't see where you are getting (other than just being a troll) that receivers are wide open, the stats just don't prove it. During the Washington game the QB was allowed entirely to much time in the pocket.

    Oh and your argument about the rank of the pass defense and then blaming the DBs is silly since you've already stated the pass rush is non-existent but refused to say it contributed to the performance against the pass. Your argument is all over the place.

    Oh and the Rams aren't running mostly cover 2. Please. Pay attention.

    I'm giving this a 98.6% chance of just being a troll wanting attention because he hasn't watched the games.

  11. #11
    Nick's Avatar
    Nick is offline Superbowl MVP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Age
    32
    Posts
    19,806
    Rep Power
    154

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
    Our LBers covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield are a FAR larger problem than our DBs.
    I tend to agree with this. It's interesting that two games into the season, the leading receiver in both games for the opposition has been the tight end.

    I think for only having one sack through two games, our defensive backs have done a solid job. Remember, this wasn't exactly an area of strength on the team to begin with. Many were expecting Tye Hill to be a starter this season, and he gets traded out of no where and Wade becomes a starter.

    I don't think Bartell or Wade are shutdown corners, but you don't have to have shutdown corners to be effective. I think with a more consistent pass rush, Bartell and Wade are talented enough to get the job done more often than not.

    And I think if history would lean us one way or another about how Spags is going to build the Rams, he'd probably like to build a strong disruptive front rather than stock up on amazing corners. I don't remember anyone calling Sam Madison, Aaron Ross, or Kevin Dockery the game's best when New York won the Super Bowl in 2007.

    One area I do think this defense needs to improve upon is their blitzing. I think the game against Washington offered some good examples; it just doesn't seem like we get penetration and pressure on a lot of our blitzes, and when you blitz but don't get that kind of disruption, then yeah, there will be holes in your coverage that other teams can exploit.

  12. #12
    Milan Guest

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Yes, they've run mostly cover 2 man which takes away the deep ball and to be fair they have covered those much better than they have last year.

    But see, this is what always happens to our defense. In years past our defensive coordinators would keep going from one thing to another to figure out how to get that magical mix of coverage and pass rush.

    They blitz, exposing our horrible corners. They sit back and pick us apart exposing our weak defensive line AND corners. We go back and forth with that routinely. I think Spags is gonna run a bend but don't break defense because he almost has too. He doesn't have the corners to leave them on islands which means we can't bring a bunch of heat without risking getting burnt.

    I hope we address our corner issue, but as I said in the other thread the defensive line needs help too. Its just odd that the corner position get's far too ignored when talking about our pass defense. Dink and dunk passes must be stopped on occasion too...
    If we're running cover-2 man, and we're in the top half of the league in passes completed to #1 and #2 WRs, why are you focusing your attention on the CBs? I don't understand. Our main two CBs will be covering their main two WRs, and the rest of the coverage duties rest on the rest of the defense. The dink and dunk passes are not Wade or Bartell's fault.

    That's just "if" we're running a cover-2 man. That doesn't even seem like the defense we're running.
    Last edited by Milan; -09-24-2009 at 06:45 PM.

  13. #13
    RockinRam's Avatar
    RockinRam is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    4,146
    Rep Power
    44

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Hmmm. During the past two games, I've noticed that:

    There are a lot of plays in which are defensive backs were giving our d-line more than plenty of time to sack the qb, but our d-line couldn't do it. Our line was shut down, which is why sometimes our secondary looks "bad". I'm not saying our secondary is a shutdown machine, because they're not, they are far from it actually, but they do have their moments, and our d-line must give them some help.

  14. #14
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
    RamsInfiniti is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    R.I.P.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    77

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    If we're running cover-2 man, and we're in the top half of the league in passes completed to #1 and #2 WRs, why are you focusing your attention on the CBs? I don't understand. Our main two CBs will be covering their main two WRs, and the rest of the coverage duties rest on the rest of the defense. The dink and dunk passes are not Wade or Bartell's fault.

    That's just "if" we're running a cover-2 man. That doesn't even seem like the defense we're running.
    Again, I doubt OP watches the game, or has any idea what the scheme is ...

  15. #15
    RamsInfiniti's Avatar
    RamsInfiniti is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    R.I.P.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    77

    Re: Cornerbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by btimsah View Post
    Oh, so now we have one of the top shutdown corners in the league? Wow. Infinity, it's amazing what you will come up with in order to find some way to ridicule and disagree with any and everything I say. You're so transparent. We have the 25th rated pass defense in the league, so Do you watch the games? Oh let me quess, we have top corners but their only rated 25th in pass defense because of everybody else, EXCEPT OUR CORNERS? You live in a real fantasy land. It's the same with Bulger, blame everybody else but him. And finally; If you can't understand the concept of a coverage sack, then I don't think it matters how much football you watch.
    Nobody said we had a "shutdown corner". I don't even know what that term means. Do you consider Champ Bailey a "shutdown corner". Statistically one of the worst corners in the league last year. How about Cromartie? I am sure you were all over his jock in 2007, explaining how we should have drafted him instead of Hill. Then, his pass rush dissapeared last year, and he was horrible ...

    I ridicule and disagree with your arguments because they are severely flawed ...

    I would venture to believe that 10% or less of sacks in this league are coverage sacks. The rules are designed to give the WR the advantage. Besides Ashoagmuaoghaga in Oakland, who is superhuman apparently, there are few "shutdown" corners left in this league. Such players don't truly exist ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: -06-05-2008, 04:08 PM
  2. Starting Cornerbacks?
    By DaRamsBaby in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: -07-01-2006, 10:39 AM
  3. Rams cornerbacks survive barrage
    By RamWraith in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: -11-28-2005, 04:11 PM
  4. Clayton: Cracking Down on Corners
    By Nick in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: -07-23-2004, 09:57 PM
  5. Cornerbacks and the "Cover-2" scheme
    By Sco in forum RAM TALK
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: -03-14-2001, 04:08 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •