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Thread: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
    [B] The biggest responsibility should fall in his lap. Bradford can't expect a clean pocket every play, nor should he expect a receiver running free every down. It doesn't work like that in the NFL, especially in the playoffs. Sam Bradford has to do a much better job ad libbing, when the pocket collapses around him.
    Nor does it work work in the NFL when a qb hits receivers in the hands and they drop it. Nor does it help when receivers run the wrong route. Nor does it help when receivers do not play with the awareness required to know when it is time to come back to the qb when he's in trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
    I expect to see a much calmer, less jittery QB in the face of pressure.
    If our 2nd year receivers and Quick hang onto the ball and the chains keep moving, Sam will regain some confidence. Having Danny back will help for sure. Kendricks needs to step up big time as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
    The experience of last season can only help improve him.?
    Don't know if I agree with this entirely .. I hope you are right. Fisher has already mentioned use of the "delete" button with regard to last season.

    In hindsight, Pat Shurmur's approach wasn't so bad. I expect Jeff and Shotty to focus on Sam's strong points and conjure up a scheme that amplifies these strengths. Their is no reason to believe they can't. Not having a qb coach for Sam last year certainly didn't help ..


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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Bradford came out of Oklahoma as the league’s No. 1 overall pick. He was a polished passer in many areas: ball position on his drop, both from under center and in the shotgun; balance, with his feet quick yet unhurried; a strong plant with his back foot; excellent weight transfer as he delivered the ball; compact throwing motion, tight with powerful arm speed; and then most important of all attributes, precise and consistent in his ball location. What I really liked about Bradford was his ability to sit in the pocket on his back foot, then drive through his throws and deliver with velocity and accuracy. There was no question he was a top arm talent.
    His ankle injury prevented him from driving pushing off his back foot and driving through his passes. Watch any video of him in 2011 and it is as obvious as the nose on your face. Any argument against Bradford that does not factor in that injury is null and void.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    His ankle injury prevented him from driving pushing off his back foot and driving through his passes. Watch any video of him in 2011 and it is as obvious as the nose on your face. Any argument against Bradford that does not factor in that injury is null and void.
    A very excellent point. I think a few people are going far too hard on Bradford when he was in a situation where no QB would thrive. New offense, no offseason to learn it, also poorly formulated for the players the Rams had, bad receivers, bad oline, bad ankle. Everything that could go wrong pretty much went wrong. I think that calls for a mulligan.
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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Who tried to ignore them? Avenger said its impossible to distinguish Bradford's personal shortcomings from the shortcomings of those around him. Team effort. Also, if your pocket constantly collapses, you'll still be jittery when it doesn't. It's why the abused dog cowers when he just thinks he is going to get hit, even when he isn't. You're just expecting it. Scared QB syndrome can be hard to fix, look at Bulger.

    I'm making aware of the fact that every time there is an article that puts Bradford in a negative light, most of this board rushes to defend him and tries to discredit the reporter in every which way possible.


    It's not impossible to distinguish between Bradford's and the team's problems. If that is the case, we might as well just build the team up, and put in a journeyman QB.

    For a team to succeed and reach the next level, the QB must make plays. Bradford, like I said earlier, was not consistent in doing so and combined with the rest of the team's failures our season was abysmal.


    What separates the mediocre QBs and the great QBs is if they can take the punishment, make plays against it, and get back up and continue to perform at a high level.


    Like I said, Bradford had his chances last season to make plays, and he did not make them. You can simply lay blame to things like his injury, or his supporting cast...but the point of the matter is that Bradford is far from a finished product and he has a ton of room to improve on.

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by MauiRam View Post
    Nor does it work work in the NFL when a qb hits receivers in the hands and they drop it. Nor does it help when receivers run the wrong route. Nor does it help when receivers do not play with the awareness required to know when it is time to come back to the qb when he's in trouble.




    If our 2nd year receivers and Quick hang onto the ball and the chains keep moving, Sam will regain some confidence. Having Danny back will help for sure. Kendricks needs to step up big time as well.


    Don't know if I agree with this entirely .. I hope you are right. Fisher has already mentioned use of the "delete" button with regard to last season.

    In hindsight, Pat Shurmur's approach wasn't so bad. I expect Jeff and Shotty to focus on Sam's strong points and conjure up a scheme that amplifies these strengths. Their is no reason to believe they can't. Not having a qb coach for Sam last year certainly didn't help ..
    I believe players learn more about themselves through adversity. Jay Cutler for example, was beaten to a pulp his first year, and second year, with Mad Mike calling the plays. Come his third year, I saw a very different Jay Cutler in the pocket. He was using his feet much better in the pocket, and Cutler's anticipation of the rush seemed much improved. Like most things, I believe its a case of practice makes perfect.

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    All you guys are right, it was just a perfecct storm of problems that lead to sam's bad reason. But the ONLY point no one brought up is that Sam, when in the pocket, never tried to buy time to make a play. He didnt try to move at all, he just stood there taking hits. I cant recall him doing this his rookie year. Maybe it was the scheme. But i cant imagine a coach telling a guy, "no matter what is happening around u just stand there till you see something open". And a player, on the other end, constantly getting hit and following does instructions without improvising. I just hope his pocket presents isnt really that awful. If it is he wont lasst long as a starter, im sorry to say. I just dont wanna remember anything from last year and i hope sam doesnt either.

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    No QB would be able to stand and take the kind of abuse Bradford did last year without getting skittish. It's easy to play Monday Morning QB and say "He needs to stand tall and deliver strikes regardless of how many times he gets crushed by 300 pound men running full speed unblocked" and another to stand there and do it. I'm not saying Bradford didn't fail to make plays when he should have last year, but it's a bit disingenuous to say it's up to Bradford to stop getting sacked and make his receivers catch the ball. It's a team effort, and Bradford can't do it alone. If you are going to say "Bradford, stop getting sacked and start scoring TDs" you have to, at the same time, say Oline, give him more time, receivers, get open and actually catch. All three have to work together.

    I just don't like it when people say it's all on Bradford, when it's all on everyone on offense.

    Disagree. Ever watch Ben Roethlisberger play? Love him or hate him the guy is a warrior who consistently finds a way to get things done despite sub par protection. Eli Manning got the absolute crap knocked out of him by SF in the playoffs and still played well. Tony Romo routinely gets the hell beat out of him and is considered a good QB. We can recite chapter and verse of guys who excelled in less-than-ideal circumstances. One can't just say "give the guy protection and he will be fine". Too simplistic and not always true.

    Bradford is our guy and the player with whom we've rested a lot of hopes and dreams. But while he was hardly helped last season by his line and a lack of receivers, he must shoulder some blame for his skittish play, poor pocket presence and bad reads. People have to be both objective and fair when discussing Sam Bradford. I have no doubt that he'll be better as his offensive line and receiving unit also get better. But thinking he's not fair game for criticism is crazy.
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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinRam View Post
    I'm making aware of the fact that every time there is an article that puts Bradford in a negative light, most of this board rushes to defend him and tries to discredit the reporter in every which way possible.
    That's Cuz he's our QB, it's OK if you say he needs to get better but when someone outside the Clan does well...


    It's not impossible to distinguish between Bradford's and the team's problems. If that is the case, we might as well just build the team up, and put in a journeyman QB.
    It may not be impossible but it's very clouded to say the least. As I stated he needs to protect the ball better he is going to get hit and needs to hold onto the ball 12 fumbles is way too many.

    For a team to succeed and reach the next level, the QB must make plays. Bradford, like I said earlier, was not consistent in doing so and combined with the rest of the team's failures our season was abysmal.
    No doubt but he's only played in 21 games as a healthy QB. last year he played in a lot of games where he did not practice with the team all week and then played. He played in his first game with Lloyd and never practiced with the guy. Last week a few rookies missed OTA's and Fisher questioned why the NFL would schedule this event during critical practice time. My point is this game is all about timing and anticipation between the QB and the receivers, to not practice and have a second year QB play is asking a lot IMO.


    What separates the mediocre QBs and the great QBs is if they can take the punishment, make plays against it, and get back up and continue to perform at a high level.
    Well if that's what you think makes a great QB then you have to be thrilled with what Bradford did last year, the guy could not use his legs to get out of harms way and he played behind a line that lost, both starting tackles and took the beating like a man.

    I'm not sure how many QB in that situation with the supporting cast would have played great.

    Bradford did go out and played hard. He got more experience in games that will carry over to this year. Looking back he should have sat six weeks and then tried to play.


    Like I said, Bradford had his chances last season to make plays, and he did not make them.
    There is no doubt he missed some throws no doubt he held the ball to long at times no doubt he made some bad reads. He is only in his second year that's part of the process.. for all QB that play in the NFL. None come in and play at the highest level from day one none.

    As you stated he had his chances to make plays and the film does not lie, he had a ton of dropped balls... so he made the right read, got the ball out and then the receiver and or TE dropped the ball...


    You can simply lay blame to things like his injury, or his supporting cast...
    If you are going to try and evaluate Bradford and where he is in the process no one can over look his supporting cast and last years injury.

    This was DEC 1st the Rams where tied with 5 teams at the top with drops balls.

    Rank Team Targets Receptions Yards TD Drops

    1 Rams 380 220 2,363 7 23


    but the point of the matter is that Bradford is far from a finished product and he has a ton of room to improve on.
    I agree 100% with this statement... in year five he will not even look like the same QB. Bradford could have had two seasons like he did in his rookie year and he still would not be close to the finished product.

    I see way more positives when I watch Bradford then negatives. Year three is a big one he needs to have a good year and I think he will.


    This sums up last year!!!! Clean pocket steps up and fires a strike!!! This is a franchise QB boys!



    Listen to the commentators: I feel bad for Sam Bradford... Another catch-able ball... he getting basted out there... he's trying to let route develop...

    Sam can only do so much...
    two words.... Quick & Givens
    Last edited by Rambos; -05-24-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Disagree. Ever watch Ben Roethlisberger play? Love him or hate him the guy is a warrior who consistently finds a way to get things done despite sub par protection.
    I agree that Roethlisberger is an amazing improvisor, but he is the first to admit that his protection problems are a result of holding onto the ball too long, something he purposely does to try and make plays. Pittsburgh has a solid line, anchored by a pro bowl center.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Eli Manning got the absolute crap knocked out of him by SF in the playoffs and still played well. Tony Romo routinely gets the hell beat out of him and is considered a good QB. We can recite chapter and verse of guys who excelled in less-than-ideal circumstances. One can't just say "give the guy protection and he will be fine". Too simplistic and not always true.
    Those guys are seasoned pro's, who do have the ability to excel in difficult circumstances, but those difficult circumstances are not a week in, week out environment for them. They get strong suport the majority of the time. Bradford had to deal with a horrible line and one of the worst, if not the worst WR group in the NFL, every game, every week. Plus, as others have mentioned, he was playing most of the season on a bad ankle that didn't allow him to do the things he wanted too.

    There is no doubt that Bradford shoulders some of the blame, but he needs half a chance. Give him reasonable support and an environment that allows him to get into a rhythm and execute with some continuity, and he'll excel IMO.
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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Bradford had to deal with a horrible line and one of the worst, if not the worst WR group in the NFL, every game, every week. Plus, as others have mentioned, he was playing most of the season on a bad ankle that didn't allow him to do the things he wanted too.

    There is no doubt that Bradford shoulders some of the blame, but he needs half a chance. Give him reasonable support and an environment that allows him to get into a rhythm and execute with some continuity, and he'll excel IMO.
    Exactly! I don't think anyone involved in this discussion would argue Sam has no culpability whatsoever regarding his mistakes and areas of his game he needs to work on. Good NFL players try and improve their game constantly throughout their entire careers. However, there is a point of diminishing returns when a qb gets the crap beaten out of him every game, particularly when his team is barely competitive.

    There have to be enough successful plays for a qb/team to feel they at least have a chance. Last year due in part to a plethora of injuries on both sides of the ball, the team wasn't competitive enough. The D played pretty well and kept us in games for 3 quarters or so, but due to the O's ineptitude the D was gassed by the 4th quarter. We simply could't score enough points to compete. IMO that will change this year.

    No I'm not making any rash predictions as to our win/loss record, but I do expect to see vastly improved play on both sides of the ball. One of the polls posted a while back asked which player was our best free agent acquisition. The Fish/Snead combo is my choice, and I believe they'll thrive in the "Show Me" state ..

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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    I think the truth is somewhere in between. Sam definitely regressed in 2011 and has some cleaning up of his game to do, but I do think Cosell brushed over or ignored some of the factors that impacted Sam's play last season.

    While I agree wholeheartedly that successful quarterbacks are often surrounded by good talent at other positions, there's a reason the QB position is the most important in the game. Quarterbacks have the most impact on the field, and that means taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves. That's something I don't think Sam did as well as you'd like last season, and I think there are a number of factors that may have caused that.

    I think 2012 is a big "show me" year for Bradford, but with more talent around him, what many of us probably feel is a more capable coaching staff around him, and a full offseason to progress, I expect to see Sam to make strides this season.
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    Re: Cosell Talks: Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think 2012 is a big "show me" year for Bradford, but with more talent around him, what many of us probably feel is a more capable coaching staff around him, and a full offseason to progress, I expect to see Sam to make strides this season.
    I'm in this camp Nick, Sam has to have a great year period. If he has another bad year regardless of the circumstances. Third new system or rookies receivers ect.... will not matter. He needs to score points and win games. I think if we dink and dunk and struggles in the red zone, he will get slammed by the fans, They are looking for hime to shows he's a franchise QB and make plays.

    I think he will have a good year.

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