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  1. #16
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    I don't buy that this is a passing league exclusively. Sure, the rules make for a more wide open passing game, but there are frequently examples of teams that have won based upon the running game and good defense. In recent years, the Giants, Ravens and Steelers have all used this blueprint to win Super Bowls.

    To win in this league a team needs (1) to be reasonably effective in all areas of the game, and (2) to be exceptional in at least one phase of the game.


  2. #17
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Defense is still the key to winning the big games. The high powered COLTS scored how many points in the Superbowl? 17? What was it that put the game away? The Saints Defense returning an interception for a TD!

    As far as SPAGS goes here's my question.

    Does he build a team to fit his blue print or does he create a blue print that fits his players? A little of both?


  3. #18
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    A balanced attack if the way to go. The numbers show even the supposed Spread offense teams that go crazy passing the ball had effective running games. Saints averaged toughly 5 yards/carry using a trio of backs. This of course had to do with the success of Bree's and the passing game but they both worked hand-in-hand with each other because the defense was never sure what the offense was going to come out with.

    I'd say a balanced 60/40 Pass/Run approach would be the best way to go with a duo or trio of Jackson/?/ and perhaps ogbonnaya if he continues to progress. Will prolong Jackson's career and have us with backs with fresh legs the entire game.

    As much as I would love to get Suh i'm not sure if we have the luxury to get him this year. Due to the impatience of fans, Spags will HAVE to win more than 5 games minimal to stay in Saint Louis, some would say more though i think 5 wins or more is reasonable depending on what we do in the draft and FA. He doesn't have the luxury to get luxury picks like Suh. He needs to acquire talent FAST and get the best deal possible. If Spags stays at number 1 and can't trade out of it then you have no choice but to get Suh, but I would do all i can (without getting ripped off) to trade out of the first pick and acquire an extra second (in the top 10 of the second round) or 3 third rounders.

    Guys like Julius Peppers i would be selling the house to get in an uncapped year and tons of money to spend. Even if it was for a one year deal i would get him in here to help me win games now so i secure my job. For those guys that say we build for the future (me one of them) this is true. But I understand the reality that we need to get play-makers in here now and win games and we need to be aggressive to do that.

  4. #19
    txramsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Guys, I'm not saying running the ball isn't important....but the RBs on the teams that have won recently (outside of the Giants) aren't really pro bowlers are they? The Saints had three RB's, the Colts used two, the Steelers haven't really had a stud at RB since Bettis. The Patriots don't really have anyone that stands out. The Cardinals didn't really have one until Wells emerged late THIS YEAR. However, look at the WRs? Burress, Wayne, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Moss.

    It just seems to me that the trend is this: have a serviceable running game but make sure your passing attack is the hammer. It used to be the other way around.

  5. #20
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    What about the 1999 rams? Didn't they win solely based on offense?

  6. #21
    Bralidore(RAMMODE) Guest

    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    they had the 4th ranked defense to boast as well and one of the top scoring defenses that year i believe. Not to mention it was defense that ultimately won that Superbowl for them.

  7. #22
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE) View Post
    they had the 4th ranked defense to boast as well and one of the top scoring defenses that year i believe. Not to mention it was defense that ultimately won that Superbowl for them.
    Yeah but as was shown in 2000, the 1999 Rams defense was good only because the offense forced teams to become one dimensional. Once the offense was up by 14 points, opponents gave up on the run and any defense can look good when they know what's coming.

    I don't believe Spags is anti passing. I think he just wants a power oriented offense that can pound the ball when it's required of the team and a focus more on the defense. It seems he would rather be a Steelers model than a Saints model. I don't have a problem with that. Both can be successful so it's not a big issue.

    And the comment about the spread coming to the NFL, it's already here. The Cardinals w/ Warner were running the spread. Don't know about the Saints, didn't see them in person.

  8. #23
    Azul e Oro is offline Registered User
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    Well i saw them putting in Samkon Gado on some third and shorts instead of Steven Jackson and Gado got nowhere. In fact i dont remember him doing anything in his time on the field during the regular season. Darby and Ogbonnaya only looked good when they were splitting carries with Jackson out, they didnt do anything when backing up Jackson.

    So if your backup RBs arent contributing well, why play them when you have Steven Jackson?
    Gado got about a dozen carries ALL season & I remember at least one of those Gado 3rd & shorts ; it was blown up in the backfield,ie bad blocking/poor call vs the D formation,etc. Not really fair to judge Gado based on a dozen carries over the season,imo. I also remember Darby getting in for screens & swing passes here & there; most of those were botched by bad throws / bad blocking/bad play calls.

    These guys were used about half as much in '09 as they were in '08; 65 carries to 114.I think that has to be one of the lowest combined back-up RB totals for any team. The Rams weren't a good short yardage team even with SJ & the pass attack was so inconsistent that it got no relief there,either.

    Imo, Shurmur tried to be cute on those rare occasions that the other RBs got the carry; take out SJ in the hopes that the opposition would unload the box. Seldom worked for a variety of reasons, the least of which was the caliber of those back-up RBs. Teams respected SJ, not the rush unit as a whole, & certainly not the pass unit. Until that changes, SJ will continue to accumulate fat but futile stats (until his body gives out under the strain,that is) & the team will continue to lose,imo.

  9. #24
    TheRammer Guest

    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Everything in the Nfl comes in spurts... this will pass halppy league will fade when someone finds a way to counter it... everything will come back again... Spags knows what works and if we just continue on course it will deliver.

  10. #25
    Warner4prez Guest

    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    I hope Spags and company keep on with the smashmouth game plan. I can definitely see us in the mold of the NY Giants or even NY Jets. We don't need a lot, maybe one big physical WR, one sure fire TE (maybe Fells), we don't need a top notch QB, just someone that can make the smart throw when the chips are down.

    Defense is coming along nicely. A firm LB corps and another big physical corner and we're in business. We've got a blueprint laid out right in front of us. To derivate from that now and try and get flashy and start down a different road would be foolish. Especially with a FA market in shambles.

  11. #26
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    TxRamfan is right: This is a passing league. That is not to suggest that running the ball isn't important or that defense doesn't win games. What it DOES suggest is that this isn't your daddy's NFL- with Bob Griese throwing the ball 10 times a game and an over emphasis on the running game. There is a common denominator with many of the recent Super Bowl winners: Warner, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees.

    Balance is key. The '99 Rams had a great passing game. They had a great running game. And they had a solid, if unspectacular defense.

    Spags, like all coaches, has a philosophy of how to win. Ideally, you bring in players who fit your philosophy and can implement your "vision". At the same time, a good coach tweaks and twists things a bit to fit the abilities of his current group of players. Spags was a d-coordinator who worked with blue collar teams in Philly and New York. This means two things: One, he has an affinity for defensive football teams. And two, he needs a strong offensive coordinator- and I'm not sure he has that in Pat Shurmur.

  12. #27
    RealRam's Avatar
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Good post NJeyyyy!

    I too wonder if Shurmur has the right stuff to generate an effective passing game.

    But then, this is also when one is sucked into the importance and into the quality of our current OL ... the old cliché will never get too old to include in this equation, i.e., it all starts in the trenches. The Rams OL has been limping the past two, three years. Can't really establish an offense with an inconsistent protective / atacking basis.

    Still, it will be interesting to see which systems Coach Spags will advocate and employ this year.

  13. #28
    helorm341 Guest

    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Balance is key. The '99 Rams had a great passing game. They had a great running game. And they had a solid, if unspectacular defense.
    The 99 Rams had an almost elite defense, good running game and an out of this world-offense. The offense was key, if you have a historical passing game, defense or running game you can win a superbowl. But that's pretty hard to do...



    Does anyone think that they honestly have a better grip on NFL offense then Spags or any other NFL head coach?

    Good lord we started Kyle freakin Boller and some guy named Keith Null who threw 3TDs to 9INTs. We had a pourous OL that was wrecked by injuries and a WR corps that was dramatically injured before game 1 even began..

    The offense was dumbed down for our injured/bad personnel.

    If anyone thinks we could have successfully employed a pass-first offense in 2009 are kidding themselves. We were just trying to survive by being a run-first offense. The only time we put serious drives together was with Steven Jackson leading the way and that was no coincidence.

    We can win by being a 50-50 offense, IF we have a RB as successful as Jackson is right now. We do need a higher quantity of/better passing game eventually, but there was no sense in letting Boller/Null/Bulger unleash the INTs with a very below average cast of characters around them
    Last edited by helorm341; -02-17-2010 at 01:10 AM.

  14. #29
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    I'm not saying I have any a centimeter of knowledge compared to Spags. What I will say is that last year isn't a good indication of what we should see from him as a HC but what I have heard from him is that he leans to the conservative side of an offensive style rather than what the league is displaying now. Will he be able to adjust his style if he sees that his offensive philosophy isn't working? Or, will he change the game back to a running style? Don't know

  15. #30
    AvengerRam's Avatar
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    Re: Could Spags be too "old school" to win in this type of NFL?

    Am I crazy, or didn't we just see a team with a rookie QB with a sub-70 passer rating, the league's best running game, and the top defense in the league make it to the AFC Championship game?

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