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Thread: The curious case of Sam Bradford

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Knowing what I know now I'd still draft Sam. I've got the first pick in the draft and the Heisman winning QB's shoulder checks out? Slam dunk, not even a thought. But then I'd certainly spend all my resources giving him a better surrounding cast. Perhaps I go all out like the Falcons and make a move for Buffalo's pick and grab AJ Green. I certainly don't bring in McDaniels and try and change offensive systems in an offseason shortened by labor disputes. I think that set Sam back 2 years.

    The only QB I'd clearly take over Sam since 2010 is Luck and there's no guarantee you'd be able to get him. Despite my criticism of Sam I still think he's at least as good as any QB drafted since (other than Luck). This is the first year he's really had anyone to throw to.


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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    My point was that it's not all on Bradford or the offense. You mentioned Chris Long, James Laurinaitis, Robert Quinn and Michael Brockers. The Rams are 6th worst against the run. Where are these guys? Whose the Pro Bowler let alone Hall Of Famer? The problem with the Rams isn't one guy it's the collection. They are all decent but certainly not amoung the elite and when you draft high first round year after year somebody has got to be the guy. Jackie Slater, Orlando Pace, Eric Dickerson. Big time bonifide guys. Add Bruce and Holt to the list. None of our current guys are in that league are they?

    When I say if we knew now I mean how ever many years of sub .500 teams. If you knew for a fact that the Rams would be below .500 for how ever many yeears in a row since we've had these guys you wouldn't rethink any of them?
    I get what your saying but don't you think you should be asking about draft picks that where a waste. Like Smith, Leonard, Avery, Gilyard ect. Not guys that have played well and players that are just getting started. Quinn is on a pace for what 20 sacks. JL has played well enough to make a pro bowl IMO. Long is hurt but has played well. Brockers is just getting going.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_Ramfan View Post
    I'd add Brees but he wasn't on his list.
    Because the Saints didn't make the playoffs last year. That list was of the QBs for the 12 playoff teams.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by mh-i View Post
    My point was that it's not all on Bradford or the offense. You mentioned Chris Long, James Laurinaitis, Robert Quinn and Michael Brockers. The Rams are 6th worst against the run. Where are these guys? Whose the Pro Bowler let alone Hall Of Famer? The problem with the Rams isn't one guy it's the collection. They are all decent but certainly not amoung the elite and when you draft high first round year after year somebody has got to be the guy. Jackie Slater, Orlando Pace, Eric Dickerson. Big time bonifide guys. Add Bruce and Holt to the list. None of our current guys are in that league are they?

    When I say if we knew now I mean how ever many years of sub .500 teams. If you knew for a fact that the Rams would be below .500 for how ever many yeears in a row since we've had these guys you wouldn't rethink any of them?
    Your standards are unrealistic and downright silly. All the players I mentioned are draft picks that worked out.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison73196
    Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Luck.

    End of list.
    I respect ur opinion, but how can you not take Ryan over Bradford?

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I respect ur opinion, but how can you not take Ryan over Bradford?
    Pesonally I feel that Sam could do as much as, or more than Ryan with similar talent on both sides of the ball.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I respect ur opinion, but how can you not take Ryan over Bradford?
    I think they're about even considering Ryan has had perennial pro bowlers at RB, WR, and TE for his whole career.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    I'd agree with "some cases". I also think it can go the other way. So that's a push. For the most part I think they simply have good chemistry and work well together.

    I also consider the OL to be included in a "boatload of talent" and not just the skill positions. I don't see these prima Donna QBs making the OL better. I'd say that one goes the other way. At the very least a great offensive line allows the elite QBs superior skills to be showcased.
    You don't think Peyton Manning's quick decisions and decisive throws make his offensive line look better than it actually might be? When a quarterback can quickly diagnose the defense and get the ball out on time, it can definitely make the line's job easier and make them look better than they probably are.

    As you say, a great offensive line absolutely allows the elite QBs superior skills to be showcased, but elite QBs can still showcase those skills without elite lines. Look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers. In two of his Pro Bowl seasons, he was sacked 50+ times but registered a QB rating in the triple digits. He has the fifth highest sack percentage in the league right now, but has a QB rating of 105.5.

    Really, it's all about varying degrees of difficulty, IMO. A quarterback's job is easier when he has great talent around him, and I think that's when you see the potential for some really special championship-caliber football. But good quarterbacks can make up for deficiencies around them through their play. There's a reason why the quarterback is considered the most important position on the field and paid like a king.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You don't think Peyton Manning's quick decisions and decisive throws make his offensive line look better than it actually might be? When a quarterback can quickly diagnose the defense and get the ball out on time, it can definitely make the line's job easier and make them look better than they probably are.

    As you say, a great offensive line absolutely allows the elite QBs superior skills to be showcased, but elite QBs can still showcase those skills without elite lines. Look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers. In two of his Pro Bowl seasons, he was sacked 50+ times but registered a QB rating in the triple digits. He has the fifth highest sack percentage in the league right now, but has a QB rating of 105.5.

    Really, it's all about varying degrees of difficulty, IMO. A quarterback's job is easier when he has great talent around him, and I think that's when you see the potential for some really special championship-caliber football. But good quarterbacks can make up for deficiencies around them through their play. There's a reason why the quarterback is considered the most important position on the field and paid like a king.
    I rarely, if ever, see Sam check off at the line and audible. I am a firm believer that great players make everyone around around them not a little better, but a lot better.
    In Sams case you do not see the finger waggling, the finger pointing, and the repositioning of players like you do with some of the other Qbs being mentioned here.

    Sam is what Sam is. I dont expect anymore of him any longer. I do, however, expect SOMEONE
    to rise up and elevate this offense somehow. But I with the current group I cant say that I know who it could be.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by DE_Ramfan View Post
    Pesonally I feel that Sam could do as much as, or more than Ryan with similar talent on both sides of the ball.
    Ryan in his rookie year took a 4-12 team to an 11-5 record and to the playoffs. They acquired talent later but he started successfully. He had pretty much the same receiving corp that Vick had that couldn't catch a cold but played well with Ryan. Matty Ice is a top 10 qb in the league, Bradford is top 20 to 25.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    Ryan in his rookie year took a 4-12 team to an 11-5 record and to the playoffs. They acquired talent later but he started successfully. He had pretty much the same receiving corp that Vick had that couldn't catch a cold but played well with Ryan. Matty Ice is a top 10 qb in the league, Bradford is top 20 to 25.
    Speaking of win/loss records, where has Matty Ice taken the Falcons this year?
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    Ryan in his rookie year took a 4-12 team to an 11-5 record and to the playoffs. They acquired talent later but he started successfully. He had pretty much the same receiving corp that Vick had that couldn't catch a cold but played well with Ryan. Matty Ice is a top 10 qb in the league, Bradford is top 20 to 25.
    Roddy White - 88 catches, 1382 yards and 7tds.
    Michael Turner - 1699 yards rushing, 4.5 per carry, 17tds

    Ryan was sacked a whole 17 times and managed 16 tds and 11 ints.

    Ryan didn't take the Falcons to 11-5. The Falcons took Ryan to 11-5.

    *I should add that I don't think Ryan is a bad QB and at least top 15 in the league. However... he had more talent around him since he entered the league than Sam ever has.
    Last edited by DE_Ramfan; -10-11-2013 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Additional thought and can't spel gud
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    There's no hope.

    What you see is what you get. We've all seen enough of Sam Bradford in his fourth year to know this is him. He is sadly still looking like a deer in headlights out there - compared to not only elite QB's like Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, but also Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck, etc... the new kids on the block. (BTW, stats are great, but all these guys have winning records and make the playoffs every year, so even if Bradford has them on TD's for a brief moment in space this early in the season, they've already proven they can succeed. Sam, unfortunately, is still out there trying to prove himself.)

    Bradford is proving to be one-dimensional, which he got away with at Oklahoma. He is going in to run the play that is called. No audibles, no leading the team, no pointing at the defense and making adjustments to the play at the LOS. Just simply going out there to throw the ball to the guy the play was designed to go to. At doing that, he has proven to be somewhere in the middle to bottom half of the league...15th-23rd- where almost all his career statistics land.

    Bradford is overwhelmed at the NFL level.

    Can he get a little better at what he does? Sure. Do some QB's need a little more time to adjust to the NFL game? sure. Is Bradford ever going to be much different than we've seen already? No. Will we ever get to a Superbowl with Sam Bradford? Not unless we have the 85 Bears defense.
    OMG! This exactly!! The only thing I'd change is edit out Kaepernick, but this is my thoughts exactly. Everyone should just stop with the excuses. I say we shoot to get Derrick Carr first round!

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by 10m39s80i81t View Post
    OMG! This exactly!! The only thing I'd change is edit out Kaepernick, but this is my thoughts exactly. Everyone should just stop with the excuses. I say we shoot to get Derrick Carr first round!
    This exactly? Really? What you agreed with is the notion that Bradford is nothing more than the second coming of Ryan Leaf minus the attitude. IMO, the "perceptions" of Sam have reached an absurd level with statements like "Bradford is overwhelmed at the NFL level", or "He is still looking like a deer in the headlights out there". It's comical, and baseless. It looks to me like a lot of people will never be satisfied with anything he does short of matching the play of Payton Manning.

    And get Derrick Carr in the first round? I thought you might be serious until I saw you from Fresno.
    Last edited by r8rh8rmike; -10-12-2013 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You don't think Peyton Manning's quick decisions and decisive throws make his offensive line look better than it actually might be? When a quarterback can quickly diagnose the defense and get the ball out on time, it can definitely make the line's job easier and make them look better than they probably are.
    Good question. I think when peyton is using the quick tempo and keeping the defense on the field he is at his best. I think his film study and years of experience make him one of the leagues best play callers. Probably superior to the guys calling the defense. But plays still take so long to develop and the longer the play takes to develop the longer the line needs to protect. He still needs the guys around him to adjust including the line. Everyone still has to do their job and do it well. Execution by the entire offense is still the key, IMO.

    Looking at the stats of the big 4 QBs rodgers has definitely been sacked the most times. I don't know that he is making his OL better. If the other 3 are making their lines better then rodgers is apparently failing in some area. But I'm sure there are other factors as well. I think it is more a case of aaron and his skill players performing well in spite of an OL that under performs at times. He does have a stellar rating but to my knowledge I don't believe the sacks count against it.
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