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Thread: The curious case of Sam Bradford

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post



    Sam Bradford has proven to be nothing more than mediocre to this point in his career.

    All the arguments about what he could be and the comparisons to QBs that have actually led their teams to the playoffs and beyond, seem ridiculous to me.

    The bottom line is, Sam has done nothing to this point in his career, to warrant an extention or comparisons to those QBs.

    In fact, if his play doesn't drastically improve to where he's consistently good, one of my 1st round picks would be used on a fearless QB with all the intangibles in next year's draft.
    Exactly my point and my thoughts as well.


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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    [QUOTE=Rambos;472926]From Wikipedia

    In his first eight games he scored eleven TDs, which tied an NFL record—held by Dan Marino (1983), Peyton Manning (1998), and Ben Roethlisberger (2004)

    Bradford went 3-2 as a starter in October, passing for 1019 yards and 7 TDs against 3 INTs. He was named the NFL's offensive rookie of the month.

    During October and November, he established a record for most consecutive passes without an interception for a rookie (169)

    In November 28, 2010, against the Denver Broncos, Bradford became the first rookie in NFL history to pass for at least 300 yards and three touchdowns with no interceptions during a road victory.

    He capped November by becoming the first rookie QB to win two consecutive Offensive Rookie of the Month awards.

    On December 26, Bradford surpassed Peyton Manning's record for most completed passes by an NFL rookie quarterback (326).

    Bradford finished the season with 354 completions out of 590 attempts, surpassing Manning's record of 575 for most attempts by an NFL rookie quarterback.

    Bradford became just the third rookie quarterback to start all 16 regular season games and pass over 3000 passing yards, joining Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan.

    I don't know Nick he did some pretty cool stuff in his rookie year and the names he surpassed where pretty good.



    QUOTE]

    Then he has regressed mightily from that rookie season.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Let's not pretend it's just one side that picks and chooses what matters and what doesn't when it comes to measuring Bradford's success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    From Wikipedia

    ...

    I don't know Nick he did some pretty cool stuff in his rookie year and the names he surpassed where pretty good.
    You're essentially proving my point, shifting what matters to whatever makes Sam look the best.

    Comparisons to the performances of other professional quarterbacks this year are okay now, but don't pay attention to them in 2010. Instead, consider all these very situational accolades.

    All I'm saying is don't pretend like the critics are the only ones who pick and choose the points that best support their argument.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    I'm realizing that Janoris Jenkins won us like 3 games last year with turnovers at the end of close games, so perhaps our offense was only capable of winning us 4 games last year, and this year with a worse defense (for whatever reason?), our offense might even be a little better, but we're just being exposed, and we overachieved last year.

    Looks like we're a little better than the Jags, about equal with the Cardinals, so what about 25th ranked team in the NFL? unless we somehow beat the Texans or the Seahawks?

    What does this have to do with Bradford? Nothing really, just that we're sort of back in this thing at 2-3, so I'm still excited that I can watch this week with some interest, but we need to start playing some defense and Bradford needs to step up and stop being a little p#ssy and if he doesn't like the play calling than take some ownership and tell the OC which plays he thinks we should run.

    and maybe with a miracle of less penalties on special teams, we can actually get some F$k@#$ing field position and beat the Texans.

    Or else we're back to arguing about our QB.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    1. As soon as the rookie contract is signed, draft position means nothing. Nothing!

    2. Fans' expectations are not the measuring stick for the value of a player. When evaluating a player, fans' expectations, much like draft position, are meaningless.

    3. There will never be resolution when statistics debate emotions. Two different languages.

    4. Teams win and lose. Not players.

    5. There's no such thing as an "it" factor.

    6. Players do not "will" a team to win. Teams execute better than the opposing team, and that alone, leads to a win.

    7. For those wishing to get rid of our current QB, be prepared to argue to get rid of our new QB next year when the new guy does no better.

    My point is that you can count these guys on one hand and still have a finger to clean the cookie dough bowl.
    8. Mmmm....cookie dough.
    Last edited by HUbison; -10-08-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Teams don't have success without a top tier QB.

    Last years playoff teams:

    Bengals
    Vikings
    Packers
    Texans
    Ravens
    Redskins
    Falcons
    Colts
    Seahawks
    Broncos
    Ninnnners
    Patriots

    But wait, the Bengals and Vikings don't have a top tier QB...

    Correct, they both got in as a wild card and got bounced in the first round.

    Seriously list the top QB's in this league and tell me if this playoff team list is not, to a man, the same as the list of top tier QB's.

    What about Drew Brees? Well, that team had it's share of issues last year, see this year.
    Last edited by renrawtruk; -10-08-2013 at 09:50 AM.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    Teams don't have success without a top tier QB.

    Last years playoff teams:

    Bengals
    Vikings
    Packers
    Texans
    Ravens
    Redskins
    Falcons
    Colts
    Seahawks
    Broncos
    Ninnnners
    Patriots

    But wait, the Bengals and Vikings don't have a top tier QB...

    Correct, they both got in as a wild card and got bounced in the first round.

    Seriously list the top QB's in this league and tell me if this playoff team list is not, to a man, the same as the list of top tier QB's.

    What about Drew Brees? Well, that team had it's share of issues last year, see this year.
    Of that list of 12 playoff teams, there are 4 that have a QB who is clearly better than Bradford. That's 8 that don't.

    As I said, teams win and lose.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    I've got news for you: the draft is hit and miss for every team in the league.
    Yes it is, but as we have seen and continue to see: the same teams tend to stay on top and get players that contribute well that fit their system

    and other teams rise from obscurity to at least playoff contenders. All the while Our Rams cant seem to find that pattern. Even the Detroit Lions have risen..... and I really would hate to think that Rams are going to be the next team that dwells in the cellar for decades upon decades.

    I feel that the last 2 Ram brainstrusts were beyond terrible.
    And for whatever it's worth--- I think that this current regime trys to get too 'cute' during draft day and play the wheel and deal game to make..... a media impression? and gain PR buzz like Beathard used to do in San Diego.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    Teams don't have success without a top tier QB.

    Last years playoff teams:

    Bengals
    Vikings
    Packers
    Texans
    Ravens
    Redskins
    Falcons
    Colts
    Seahawks
    Broncos
    Ninnnners
    Patriots

    But wait, the Bengals and Vikings don't have a top tier QB...

    Correct, they both got in as a wild card and got bounced in the first round.

    Seriously list the top QB's in this league and tell me if this playoff team list is not, to a man, the same as the list of top tier QB's.

    What about Drew Brees? Well, that team had it's share of issues last year, see this year.

    In running the risk of derailing this thread some more, let's look at this block of four teams:

    Texans
    Ravens
    Redskins
    Falcons

    Matt Schaub has regressed, and their offense is stagnant. Joe Flacco has looked remarkably average once they had to bounce Boldin and a lot more of his supporting cast. The Redskins won their first game, against the Raiders. RGIII has boosted his stats during a lot of garbage time play. The Falcons are off to a 1-3 start.

    A good argument can be made that these quarterbacks surrounding cast has largely altered their success. The Redkins and Falcons defense has been largely non-existent and affected outcomes of games, like last night's game winning drive from a rookie QB. You could look at the Patriots without their offensive weapons as further argument. The Jets game and the Bengals game come to mind.

    Now let's look at some other teams this year, the Chiefs and Steelers. Alex Smith has been average to date in his career, but is currently leading his team to an undefeated record. Big Ben has long been considered at least at the cusp of top tier QBs in this league, leading his team to multiple Super Bowls. A lot of talent returns from injury this year for the Chiefs, and they find a QB that fits their system well. A lot of talent has left Pittsburgh and they look like they're in the running for a top 10 pick.


    With the exception of the Texans, who on paper have a very talented roster, the surrounding casts of all these teams has had a lot to do with their records. Putting the results squarely on the shoulders of the QB as you suggested would ignore a lot of information out there that suggests otherwise, and is just plain wrong.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    The current regime has produced Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Trumaine Johnson, Chris Givens, Greg Zuerlein, Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree, T.J. McDonald and Zac Stacy (plus an extra first round pick in 2014).

    I think they're doing a pretty good job so far.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by renrawtruk View Post
    Teams don't have success without a top tier QB.
    Sorry, but that's just not true. In fact, neither Super Bowl team last year had a top tier QB.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    You're essentially proving my point, shifting what matters to whatever makes Sam look the best.

    Comparisons to the performances of other professional quarterbacks this year are okay now, but don't pay attention to them in 2010. Instead, consider all these very situational accolades.

    All I'm saying is don't pretend like the critics are the only ones who pick and choose the points that best support their argument.
    I know.

    Matt Ryan is now 1-4 the stat that matters most. Is he regressing? Looking at that stat alone is Sam better then Ryan? Ok I'm being an idiot but my point is win loss record is important but not always a direct result of how well or bad a QB plays. I think Bradford can hand the ball off and make a play or two like Kap does with the whiners. Ride the defense and the running game to win after win. Does that make him a better QB because of the wins he would get by being on a better team? I don't think it does. If I'm the worst FG kicker statistically in the NFL but on a teams that scores TD and wins a lot of games does that make me the best?

    Wins and losses are all that matters but you have to drill down a little deeper to evaluate players, being our draft Nick, I know that you know that to be true.
    Last edited by Rambos; -10-08-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    All I'm saying is don't pretend like the critics are the only ones who pick and choose the points that best support their argument.
    That's not the point.

    My issue with the critics is twofold:

    1. I have criticized Sam Bradford in several posts. Nonetheless, because I still have hope for the guy, I am often treated as though I view him as flawless. I don't know if that is because some people can only see black and white, or if people simply don't bother to read before they respond. Either way, its tiresome for me to constantly have to write "no, I don't think Sam is perfect, but..."

    2. I have no problem with "critics" providing stats to back up their concerns. However, 9/10 posts (if not more) criticizing Sam consist of nothing more than hyperbole, indignation, cliches, and subjective views. I find posts of this type uninteresting.

    In the end, perhaps we should better define the "argument."

    To me, it comes down to a simple question: do you still have enough hope that Sam can be what we need him to be, or are you ready to draft a new QB in 2014?

    (Note: among the acceptable answers to this question is the following: "ask me in January")
    Last edited by AvengerRam; -10-08-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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    Do I have hope for bradford as a player...

    Yes but under one condition. That the play calling somehow starts to become a bit more creative. Schotteheimer needs to start thinking a bit more outside the box with our offensive scheme. I cannot tell you how many plays last Sunday I cal led out with pead motioning out of backfield and running the out route. We motion to side were running to 75% of time. If a COUCH QB can pick up these traits, a NFL coordinator can also. What happened to the bootlegs or sweep runs from the offense last season?

    I truly feel that with more plays designed to open up the offense and something dofferent in running game if its sweeps, counter plays , Sam B can be more productive. If we have same VANILLA offense, then Sam B will continue to look stagnent and clanram will have these Bradford threads every 2 weeks.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by punahou View Post
    Yes it is, but as we have seen and continue to see: the same teams tend to stay on top and get players that contribute well that fit their system

    and other teams rise from obscurity to at least playoff contenders. All the while Our Rams cant seem to find that pattern. Even the Detroit Lions have risen..... and I really would hate to think that Rams are going to be the next team that dwells in the cellar for decades upon decades.

    I feel that the last 2 Ram brainstrusts were beyond terrible.
    And for whatever it's worth--- I think that this current regime trys to get too 'cute' during draft day and play the wheel and deal game to make..... a media impression? and gain PR buzz like Beathard used to do in San Diego.
    Depends if you are only going back 10 years, yeah there has been a lot of change in the organization. But if you look at a larger sample size like the history of the Rams, you will find Championships, Division titles, Super Bowl win.

    I agree with the last two regimes Billy was not as bad as it looked. The current one, time will tell so far they seem to have a plan in place, lets see what happens.

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