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Thread: The curious case of Sam Bradford

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Does Bradford call his own plays? I'm certain he doesn't, but what would he run if he did? Would he be more aggressive and audible more often? Would he be more aware of the defense? Would he play faster and make his offense more accountable?

    It would be interesting to see the results.

    "The horror"

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    (Note: among the acceptable answers to this question is the following: "ask me in January")
    I'm surprised to hear you say this to be honest.

    So come January what will drive the answer to the question? His RAT? Win Loss Record? TDs and Yards? His health? What will you hang your hat on?

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    I'm surprised to hear you say this to be honest.

    So come January what will drive the answer to the question? His RAT? Win Loss Record? TDs and Yards? His health? What will you hang your hat on?
    From my standpoint, I currently view Sam Bradford as the opening day starter for the Rams in 2013.

    That said, if he were to completely tank in the last 11 games (let's say... 10 TDs, 20 Ints., and a passer rating below 70) and the Rams seem to be losing games because of him, I reserve the right to reevaluate.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    From my standpoint, I currently view Sam Bradford as the opening day starter for the Rams in 2013.

    That said, if he were to completely tank in the last 11 games (let's say... 10 TDs, 20 Ints., and a passer rating below 70) and the Rams seem to be losing games because of him, I reserve the right to reevaluate.
    Ok you scared me for a second there.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Matt Ryan is now 1-4 the stat that matters most. Is he regressing?
    That's a silly question. The "Bradford rules" don't apply to other QB's. Come on Rambos, get with the program!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That said, if he were to completely tank in the last 11 games (let's say... 10 TDs, 20 Ints., and a passer rating below 70) and the Rams seem to be losing games because of him, I reserve the right to reevaluate.
    Despite being a staunch Bradford defender, sometimes to a fault, I completely agree with this statement.
    Last edited by r8rh8rmike; -10-08-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    I remember the Rams 2003 season like it was yesterday. The Rams were winning week after week with Bulger as the starting QB. Yet the overwhelming majority of discussion at the ClanRam revolved around the QB controversy.

    I have a strong feeling that even if we were winning week after week, and Sam were playing the same as he is now, that the discussion about Sam would be the same as it is now.

    I just want to win. As a Rams fan I'm just sick of losing. SICK OF IT!!! It's not Sam's fault. There are a lot of underlying problems with the Rams that never seem to be the focus of discussion.

    Fix the problems, Jeff Fisher! You were hired to get this organization back on track to a perennial winner. Do your job!

    After 9 straight losing seasons I want a winning season.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    1. As soon as the rookie contract is signed, draft position means nothing. Nothing!

    2. Fans' expectations are not the measuring stick for the value of a player. When evaluating a player, fans' expectations, much like draft position, are meaningless.

    3. There will never be resolution when statistics debate emotions. Two different languages.

    4. Teams win and lose. Not players.

    5. There's no such thing as an "it" factor.

    6. Players do not "will" a team to win. Teams execute better than the opposing team, and that alone, leads to a win.

    7. For those wishing to get rid of our current QB, be prepared to argue to get rid of our new QB next year when the new guy does no better.

    8. Mmmm....cookie dough.
    I agree with some points, and disagree with others. However, I think we can all agree on #8.
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!!

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    I remember the Rams 2003 season like it was yesterday. The Rams were winning week after week with Bulger as the starting QB. Yet the overwhelming majority of discussion at the ClanRam revolved around the QB controversy.

    I have a strong feeling that even if we were winning week after week, and Sam were playing the same as he is now, that the discussion about Sam would be the same as it is now.

    I was not on the board then but I do agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment on "wanting a winning season" I am right there with you.......

    I just want to win. As a Rams fan I'm just sick of losing. SICK OF IT!!! It's not Sam's fault. There are a lot of underlying problems with the Rams that never seem to be the focus of discussion.

    Fix the problems, Jeff Fisher! You were hired to get this organization back on track to a perennial winner. Do your job!

    After 9 straight losing seasons I want a winning season.
    I was not on the board then but I do agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment on "wanting a winning season" I am right there with you.......I hold out hope for this year but not as fervent as I was in July.....
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    Wins and losses are all that matters but you have to drill down a little deeper to evaluate players, being our draft Nick, I know that you know that to be true.
    I don't disagree, and that's one reason when I started the Jags post-game thread, I referenced the stats but also asked those who watched how Sam looked when putting up those numbers.

    I just don't understand the need to chastise a Bradford critic for trying to brush comparative stats under the rug when that's exactly what many staunch Bradford supporters did three years ago so that they could instead focus on specific situational achievements.

    Having said that, if we want to drill down a little deeper and look at some comparative stats, here is some food for thought...

    -Bradford ranks 14th in the NFC in first down % per attempt. Only Eli Manning has a lower % in the NFC.

    -Bradford's touchdown % ranks 11th in the league at 4.6%, and if it holds for the season, would represent a significant upgrade over last year's career high 3.8%.

    -Sam's first half completion % is 59.3, which does not rank among the Top 20 in the NFL (10/16 in NFC). His second half completion % is worse (57.6%), 11/16 in NFC.

    -His % of first downs when passing on third down is 33.9%, ranking 12/17 in the NFC.

    -He ranks 17th in the league in QB rating inside the opponents' 20 yard line (88.7).

    -When comparing his QB rating in 2-4 WR sets, Sam is most efficient in 4 WR sets. He is least efficient in 2 WR sets.

    -This kind of surprised me, but he ranks 7th in the NFL in YAC for QBs w/ 702 yards.

    -Bradford ranks 13th in the NFL in accuracy % according to Pro Football Focus. That stat takes into account what a QB's completion percentage would look like when drops are factored in and spikes/throw aways are removed.


    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    That's not the point.
    Well, it was, to the specific individual I was responding to and the response he made to someone else. But I agree that it wasn't the point of your original post.


    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    1. I have criticized Sam Bradford in several posts. Nonetheless, because I still have hope for the guy, I am often treated as though I view him as flawless. I don't know if that is because some people can only see black and white, or if people simply don't bother to read before they respond. Either way, its tiresome for me to constantly have to write "no, I don't think Sam is perfect, but..."
    Yeah, I agree that those types of generalizations are part of the problem. I feel like this discussion would be much more interesting and less heated if it moved away from there being a one side versus the other mentality.

    But there are generalizations made on both sides, though. I've seen posters referred to as "Bradford haters" when all they've done is offer up legitimate criticism that's separate and unrelated to any long-term thoughts on Bradford.

    You're right, though. It does feel like you need some kind of preface or introductory message to get the fine print out of the way before getting to a main point.


    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    2. I have no problem with "critics" providing stats to back up their concerns. However, 9/10 posts (if not more) criticizing Sam consist of nothing more than hyperbole, indignation, cliches, and subjective views. I find posts of this type uninteresting.
    I agree completely, and also find it uninteresting, primarily because there's no real room for discussion or exploration of data.


    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In the end, perhaps we should better define the "argument."

    To me, it comes down to a simple question: do you still have enough hope that Sam can be what we need him to be, or are you ready to draft a new QB in 2014?

    (Note: among the acceptable answers to this question is the following: "ask me in January")
    Good question.

    I still have hope that Sam can be a playoff-caliber quarterback, and that's certainly enough to warrant continuing with him at least for the foreseeable future.

    But I think the longer I'm seeing him, the more I'm reevaluating exactly what his upside is in this league compared to what many people perceived it to be when he was a prospect.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Good question.

    I still have hope that Sam can be a playoff-caliber quarterback, and that's certainly enough to warrant continuing with him at least for the foreseeable future.
    So does that include going to the super bowl and winning it?

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Has everyone forgotten about the Elite QB that is not looking very elite right now? Tom Brady.... He lost Gronk and Amendola and has a rookie and a journeyman for his WR's... His numbers suck right now and he's not looking like typical Tom Brady. Somehow he is winning, but his defense is top notch and the run game is decent. He also has... A good o-line. Yet his receivers suck.

    A lot of you people here forget that this game is a TEAM sport. I'm tired of people saying that only ONE position needs to be good in order for this team to excel. Some of you are saying that this is an I team... I'm not sure why there are expectations that the QB position has to absolutely be elite. I'm perfectly fine with Bradford being an exceptional QB. He is right now and probably will never be elite, but the elite QBs today, it took them a while to get in the position they are in right now. Its amazing that Warner was elite, gets battered around like Bradford is right now, and does poorly and gets run out of town but goes to the Cardinals and has a dream of a supporting cast and gets to be elite again.


    I think this is all on the coaching. Do you guys know what goes on in that headset of Sam Bradford or the conversation between the OC and Bradford? Do you guys know what goes on behind the scenes. Do you know what Bradford is being told to do in the game and what not to do? I swear its like some of your are NFL analysts. There are too many factors that involve an NFL game that most of you are ignoring.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Has everyone forgotten about the Elite QB that is not looking very elite right now? Tom Brady.... He lost Gronk and Amendola and has a rookie and a journeyman for his WR's... His numbers suck right now and he's not looking like typical Tom Brady. Somehow he is winning, but his defense is top notch and the run game is decent. He also has... A good o-line. Yet his receivers suck.

    A lot of you people here forget that this game is a TEAM sport. I'm tired of people saying that only ONE position needs to be good in order for this team to excel. Some of you are saying that this is an I team... I'm not sure why there are expectations that the QB position has to absolutely be elite. I'm perfectly fine with Bradford being an exceptional QB. He is right now and probably will never be elite, but the elite QBs today, it took them a while to get in the position they are in right now. Its amazing that Warner was elite, gets battered around like Bradford is right now, and does poorly and gets run out of town but goes to the Cardinals and has a dream of a supporting cast and gets to be elite again.


    I think this is all on the coaching. Do you guys know what goes on in that headset of Sam Bradford or the conversation between the OC and Bradford? Do you guys know what goes on behind the scenes. Do you know what Bradford is being told to do in the game and what not to do? I swear its like some of your are NFL analysts. There are too many factors that involve an NFL game that most of you are ignoring.
    Correct. It is a TEAM sport. Bradford may not have helped his team much in the 2 blowout losses, but he sure didnt hurt them as much as he could have. Bradford may not win alot of games with his arm, but he certainly doesnt lose many with his arm either. Last week Kaepernick throws for 110 yds and the 9ers beat the Texans by 31 points. What would happen if Bradford threw for 110 yds this week against the Texans? Rams probably lose by 31 points.

    The term 'elite' gets thrown around too much. Only 4 QBs in the league are elite, Brady, Rogers, Manning, Brees. Whats after the elite 4? Tony Romo? Matt Ryan? Matthew Stafford? I have a hard time calling those guys 'great' quarterbacks. They're surrounded by tremendous talent on the offensive side of the ball yet are inconsistent. So IMO theres 4 great QBs in the NFL and then theres about 15 good QBs, and then theres bad QBs. Bradford is a good QB. He is not a bad QB like Gabbert. Bradford has a long future as a starter in this league, if not with the Rams then it will be with somebody else.

    And your right about the coaching. Has anyone here reviewed the gametape? Maybe Bradford isnt throwing bombs every other play because the safeties dont respect the run of the Rams and are playing deep?

    Nobody has noticed, but Jared Cook is on pace for a career year in receptions, touchdowns, and yardage. Yet Bradford is a bum who is wasting his weapons

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Has everyone forgotten about the Elite QB that is not looking very elite right now? Tom Brady.... He lost Gronk and Amendola and has a rookie and a journeyman for his WR's... His numbers suck right now and he's not looking like typical Tom Brady. Somehow he is winning, but his defense is top notch and the run game is decent. He also has... A good o-line. Yet his receivers suck.

    A lot of you people here forget that this game is a TEAM sport. I'm tired of people saying that only ONE position needs to be good in order for this team to excel. Some of you are saying that this is an I team... I'm not sure why there are expectations that the QB position has to absolutely be elite. I'm perfectly fine with Bradford being an exceptional QB. He is right now and probably will never be elite, but the elite QBs today, it took them a while to get in the position they are in right now. Its amazing that Warner was elite, gets battered around like Bradford is right now, and does poorly and gets run out of town but goes to the Cardinals and has a dream of a supporting cast and gets to be elite again.


    I think this is all on the coaching. Do you guys know what goes on in that headset of Sam Bradford or the conversation between the OC and Bradford? Do you guys know what goes on behind the scenes. Do you know what Bradford is being told to do in the game and what not to do? I swear its like some of your are NFL analysts. There are too many factors that involve an NFL game that most of you are ignoring.
    Just a great post. I feel what frustrates me more than anything is that so much blame is directed at Sam and some of them are just based on what that person percieves to be. For example, I've heard so many times that Bradford locks on to recievers down the field. I'm sorry I have a hard time believing that when I have seen him look safties away when needed. I am sure on occassion he may stay with a reciever to long but all QB's do. This is the NFL if a QB locks onto a Wide Out to long and too often trust me his INT's deflected passes would be much higher. Then I have heard some question his toughness and even suggest that he plays like Chris Everett(sp) really? Come on just last week I saw on several occasions Bradford hold on to the ball as long as he could and take a hit just after he released the pass.

    I do not have a problem with those who are critical of Bradford but at least be fair and have something more to offer than the vague assumption well he's not a leader. Ok, he's not a leader evident by........

    Sam may never be an elite QB but to be fair he will not be as bad as some want us to believe he is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambos View Post
    So does that include going to the super bowl and winning it?
    Sure, if he and the team around him improves their play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Has everyone forgotten about the Elite QB that is not looking very elite right now?
    Nope, there have been a number of other threads in which Brady has been drudged up as an example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    A lot of you people here forget that this game is a TEAM sport. I'm tired of people saying that only ONE position needs to be good in order for this team to excel. Some of you are saying that this is an I team...
    I'm pretty sure no one is saying that, no one has forgotten this is a team sport, and no one is saying that only one position needs to be good or improve. You're either completely misunderstanding what's being said or just making up points you think are being made by others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    I think this is all on the coaching. Do you guys know what goes on in that headset of Sam Bradford or the conversation between the OC and Bradford? Do you guys know what goes on behind the scenes. Do you know what Bradford is being told to do in the game and what not to do?
    You don't, either. And yet that didn't stop you from blaming it all on coaching to start the paragraph. Go figure.


    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    I am sure on occassion he may stay with a reciever to long but all QB's do.
    Sure, to varying degrees. But does that make it okay that Bradford does it? No, just like it isn't a good thing when any other QB does it.

    Very strange way to defend him. You could apply this odd logic to any position to deflect or dismiss mistakes. "I am sure on occasion the Rams' receivers drop passes, but all WRs do."


    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    This is the NFL if a QB locks onto a Wide Out to long and too often trust me his INT's deflected passes would be much higher.
    He leads the league in batted passes. Is that merely a coincidence? Because it seems like defensive linemen have a good idea of when and where he's going to throw.


    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYHORNS View Post
    Sam may never be an elite QB but to be fair he will not be as bad as some want us to believe he is.
    On that point, I actually agree. I just also don't think he has as high of a ceiling as I used to, either.
    Last edited by Nick; -10-09-2013 at 07:56 AM.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Sure, to varying degrees. But does that make it okay that Bradford does it? No, just like it isn't a good thing when any other QB does it.

    Very strange way to defend him. You could apply this odd logic to any position to deflect or dismiss mistakes. "I am sure on occasion the Rams' receivers drop passes, but all WRs do."


    My intention is not to deflict or dismiss. My point is that it's part of the game and can not be avoided. The QB has to look at the wide out at some point before throwing the ball. So how much time is appropriate? Is that time frame measurable and applied to all plays? For example, if the wide out is on the sideline and single covered should Bradford look him off and only look his way the moment prior to his release? The block passes are a concern. My question to you Nick has this been an ongoing issue for Bradford or just this season. Since your a stat guy I figure you can let us know.

    It just seems the simple solution is to blame Bradford and when stats are negative they apply to him but when positive it's despite him.

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