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Thread: The curious case of Sam Bradford

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    However, as Harbaugh and now the Chiefs are proving, you can find success with Alex Smith; it just takes a little more effort and surrounding talent.
    Maybe it just seems like it but aren't the elite QBs always surrounded by a boatload of talent?


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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    I don't think we're doing Sam or ourselves any favors by examining him in a vacuum then trying to compare that to anyone else or their stats/accomplishments. The entire team needs to play better and we can all agree on that.

    Besides, he's not going anywhere.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Horns View Post
    Maybe it just seems like it but aren't the elite QBs always surrounded by a boatload of talent?
    Well, yes, but I'd contend in some cases, the quarterback is helping that talent perform better than they otherwise might be capable of.

    There are obviously instances where that isn't the case. Peyton Manning has had the good fortune of playing with a lot of talented receivers (Harrison, Wayne, Thomas, etc), but I'd contend he also made guys like Garcon and Collie look better than they really are.

    Look at a guy like Drew Brees. It's easy to say he's surrounded by talent because we now consider his top two targets (Marques Colston and Jimmy Graham) to be very good players. Yet Colston was a 7th round pick and Graham was just barely selected in the third round when he came out. It's fair to say neither of these guys were as highly regarded as prospects as they are pro players. Now look at a guy like Robert Meachem, who was productive with Brees in New Orleans but fizzled out very quickly when he left for another team.

    So yeah, I think smart organizations surround talented passers with the weapons that will make them successful, but I think other players have better chances of becoming successful when they have a talented quarterback throwing to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by DE_Ramfan View Post
    I don't think we're doing Sam or ourselves any favors by examining him in a vacuum then trying to compare that to anyone else or their stats/accomplishments. The entire team needs to play better and we can all agree on that.

    Besides, he's not going anywhere.
    Both good points.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by svh01 View Post
    I counted 9 that are better.
    Then you counted 5 too many.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Well, yes, but I'd contend in some cases, the quarterback is helping that talent perform better than they otherwise might be capable of.

    There are obviously instances where that isn't the case. Peyton Manning has had the good fortune of playing with a lot of talented receivers (Harrison, Wayne, Thomas, etc), but I'd contend he also made guys like Garcon and Collie look better than they really are.

    Look at a guy like Drew Brees. It's easy to say he's surrounded by talent because we now consider his top two targets (Marques Colston and Jimmy Graham) to be very good players. Yet Colston was a 7th round pick and Graham was just barely selected in the third round when he came out. It's fair to say neither of these guys were as highly regarded as prospects as they are pro players. Now look at a guy like Robert Meachem, who was productive with Brees in New Orleans but fizzled out very quickly when he left for another team.

    So yeah, I think smart organizations surround talented passers with the weapons that will make them successful, but I think other players have better chances of becoming successful when they have a talented quarterback throwing to them.




    Both good points.

    I agree completely. A great quarterback can't be great without a solid cast of characters at the skill positions. Nobody can do it alone for any length of time. That said, the great QB can succeed with servicable guys by helping them perform better than they otherwise might with a lesser QB. Whether or not Sam does or will someday meet these criteria is not an argument I'm going to entertain for the 500th time.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    Whether or not Sam does or will someday meet these criteria is not an argument I'm going to entertain for the 500th time.
    In the end, that's all I ask of Rams fans. Let the year play out, and then draw conclusions.

    It does not do anyone any good to yell "cut the bum!" every time Sam makes a mistake. He's the Rams QB for the duration of 2013 and, in all likelihood, then next 1-2 seasons after that. Not because I said so, but because Les Snead, Jeff Fisher and Stan Kroenke seem to be saying so.

    Given that fact, I choose to look for the positives. That does not mean I'm oblivious to the negatives, I just choose not to make them my primary focus.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Just got back home from STL, and don't feel like reading all 8 pages, but want to give 2 quick points that I'm sure someone else already made. When watching Bradford in person, you see things that don't always show up on TV.

    1. Bradford has a major problem of locking on to his intended receiver from the second the ball is snapped. How this hasn't led to more interceptions by defenders watching his eyes, is a miracle unto itself.

    2. Because he locks on to these dump-off/short gain receivers, he misses a lot of guys wide open down field. I lost track of how many times Austin literally had no one within 5 yards of him down field and not once had a deep ball thrown his way.

    I don't know if he just had bad field vision, or if he's being told who to throw to on every given play (I can't imagine it's this. No QB has ever been limited in that way have they?), or if he's simply being told to get rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds or something along those lines. I'm hoping the blame belongs to Sh#ttenheimer and not Bradford, but I'm afraid it doesn't.

    Every one who watches game film for the Rams has to see the same things we are seeing, so why are these issues not being addressed? They've been going on for years, yet every game remains the same. Why is this?

    Hope this makes sense, I'm extremely sleep deprived after 2 30 hour drives in 5 days.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick
    I don't think the problem was Brandt.
    Of course not, Nick. I was merely using Brandt's statement as a symbol for fans' expectations. As you said, when a team takes a 1st round QB, their fans are going to be looking for Peyton instead of Alex. But sometimes, you get an Alex. I'm just glad we don't have Jamarcus, or Vince, or David, or Joey, or Tim, or Akili, or Ryan, or Heath, or Rick, or any other QB drafted in the top 3 picks that have been terrible.
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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortuninerhater View Post
    Except one has 3 Superbowl rings and a hall of fame career. The other well......we'll see.
    This is true, we also have to see which draft picks become HOFers. Quinn? Brokers? Austin? Givens? Tree? Some of these draft picks have to become very good players to win SBs. As it is now we have not had a pro bowler in years that has to change. That also includes Sam he needs to play better.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    According to Pro Football Focus, Bradford has the most batted passes this season of quarterbacks who have taken 50% of their team's dropbacks. He also led the NFL in this category as a rookie in 2010. He was 11th in 2011, and 13th last year.
    This is the one area that worries me about Bradford, because it seems to be getting worse, not better. A batted ball in a key situation is every bit as damaging as a dropped pass or a penalty. It's something he has got to get a handle on.

    Quote Originally Posted by RamFan_Til_I_Die View Post
    1. Bradford has a major problem of locking on to his intended receiver from the second the ball is snapped. How this hasn't led to more interceptions by defenders watching his eyes, is a miracle unto itself.

    2. Because he locks on to these dump-off/short gain receivers, he misses a lot of guys wide open down field. I lost track of how many times Austin literally had no one within 5 yards of him down field and not once had a deep ball thrown his way.
    Although I think there is room for improvement, I don't see a huge problem with Bradford locking onto receivers. Sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn't. All NFL QB's do it to some extent. When I watch Patriots games, I see Brady regularly lock onto his go to guys. He did it with Welker, and has regularly done it this year with Amendola and Edelman.

    I watched a recording of the game after I got back from St. Louis, and noted that Steve Tasker commented numerous times that Bradford surveyed the field, but ran out of time and couldn't find anyone open. He also diagrammed the TD to Pettis at the end of the 4th quarter, noting that Bradford looked off the safety, forcing one on one coverage, then at the last moment, looked back to Pettis and made the TD throw. Again, I think there is room for improvement, but I see progress.

    On missing open receivers downfield, I agree. Like you, I saw numerous times where Givens and Austin were wide open, but Bradford failed to find them. Some of it was pressure, but he often was too quick to either dump it off, or take off running. He definitely needs to improve his ability to survey the field, and not bail out to soon.

    Glad to hear you get home in one piece, that was one hell of a road trip. It was great to see you at the game and get a chance to talk. It was also really cool to see you wearing Randy's (BigRedMan) #57 jersey. You should feel honored that he gave it to you before he passed. God bless him.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    This is the one area that worries me about Bradford, because it seems to be getting worse, not better. A batted ball in a key situation is every bit as damaging as a dropped pass or a penalty. It's something he has got to get a handle on.



    Although I think there is room for improvement, I don't see a huge problem with Bradford locking onto receivers. Sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn't. All NFL QB's do it to some extent. When I watch Patriots games, I see Brady regularly lock onto his go to guys. He did it with Welker, and has regularly done it this year with Amendola and Edelman.

    I watched a recording of the game after I got back from St. Louis, and noted that Steve Tasker commented numerous times that Bradford surveyed the field, but ran out of time and couldn't find anyone open. He also diagrammed the TD to Pettis at the end of the 4th quarter, noting that Bradford looked off the safety, forcing one on one coverage, then at the last moment, looked back to Pettis and made the TD throw. Again, I think there is room for improvement, but I see progress.

    On missing open receivers downfield, I agree. Like you, I saw numerous times where Givens and Austin were wide open, but Bradford failed to find them. Some of it was pressure, but he often was too quick to either dump it off, or take off running. He definitely needs to improve his ability to survey the field, and not bail out to soon.

    Glad to hear you get home in one piece, that was one hell of a road trip. It was great to see you at the game and get a chance to talk. It was also really cool to see you wearing Randy's (BigRedMan) #57 jersey. You should feel honored that he gave it to you before he passed. God bless him.
    I picked up on that when watching the game in regards to the TD to Pettis. The announcer really praised Bradford on that. I think the announcers that call most games are fair and objective and for the most part they confirm that Bradford has no one open more often then not down field.

    In GC post he was at the game and sat behind the bench, his take was Shcotty was in Sams ear telling him to check it down. Then you read a quote like this and think yep that's what he is being coached to do.

    Shotty a couple of weeks ago talking about using a short pass instead of running the ball.

    "Can a quick slant or something make me six or seven yards, where a great run makes me four or five yards? Again, I know the thing we want to do is be balanced. That's a big part of it. Games come down to the fourth quarter and sometimes you're going to have to try to throw it like we did last week and try to come from behind. Other times, you're going to have to run the football in four-minute and try to put people away. If you have a quarterback like Sam (Bradford) with the ability to throw the ball as accurately as he does, certainly you should hit a high percentage of those short routes. But, nothing replaces the ability to run the football when the opponent knows you're going to have to run it."

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    This is the one area that worries me about Bradford, because it seems to be getting worse, not better. A batted ball in a key situation is every bit as damaging as a dropped pass or a penalty. It's something he has got to get a handle on.



    Although I think there is room for improvement, I don't see a huge problem with Bradford locking onto receivers. Sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn't. All NFL QB's do it to some extent. When I watch Patriots games, I see Brady regularly lock onto his go to guys. He did it with Welker, and has regularly done it this year with Amendola and Edelman.

    I watched a recording of the game after I got back from St. Louis, and noted that Steve Tasker commented numerous times that Bradford surveyed the field, but ran out of time and couldn't find anyone open. He also diagrammed the TD to Pettis at the end of the 4th quarter, noting that Bradford looked off the safety, forcing one on one coverage, then at the last moment, looked back to Pettis and made the TD throw. Again, I think there is room for improvement, but I see progress.

    On missing open receivers downfield, I agree. Like you, I saw numerous times where Givens and Austin were wide open, but Bradford failed to find them. Some of it was pressure, but he often was too quick to either dump it off, or take off running. He definitely needs to improve his ability to survey the field, and not bail out to soon.
    Mike,

    Nice unbiased review of some of the things Sam needs to work on. I must say, the pass to Pettis in the 4th qtr was very nice....one of the best passes I have seen Sam throw at a time we really needed it. That was very encouraging. And, to see now he looked off the safety......nice!!!

    We had great seats to see some of the action.....really wish the Givens post was thrown just a bit deeper for 6 points. But, progress nonetheless......

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by macrammer View Post
    We had great seats to see some of the action.....really wish the Givens post was thrown just a bit deeper for 6 points. But, progress nonetheless......
    I hear you Mac, Sam missed that one to Givens, which was a bit disappointing, but I was glad to see him air it out and give the defense something to think about. And as you mentioned, there is some progress in what Bradford is doing, except for those damned batted balls. There has to be something to help in that area. I know some pump fakes or shoulder fakes would help.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Does anyone else watch games besides the Rams? I always watch sunday night and monday night football as well as thursday night every week regardless of whose playing. Literally every week, I like football a lot.. A lot of mistakes mentioned about Bradford, has happened with every QB in the league. The only thing worth noting in my opinion is the amount of batted down passes. It happens with other QBs but not as often as Bradford. I'd also like for him to take charge on the field and start yelling at his receivers and linemen.

    "IF" no one would drop the ball as often as the Rams WRs does and there aren't so many drive killers, would Bradford look a lot better? I bet it would. Poor play on any position offensively always makes the QB look bad. A linemen who consistently gets beaten off the line and allows the sack or a WR doesn't run the proper route and doesn't catch the ball always negatively affects the QB.

    Bradford isn't the best QB and he could use a little better coaching but its unfair to blame all this on him. I'll wait until he throws INT after INT and consistently overthrows or underthrows his receivers until I write him off, but he's not doing any of that. In my opinion I don't see any poor QB play. I see poor team play.

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    Re: The curious case of Sam Bradford

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam View Post
    In the end, that's all I ask of Rams fans. Let the year play out, and then draw conclusions.

    It does not do anyone any good to yell "cut the bum!" every time Sam makes a mistake. He's the Rams QB for the duration of 2013 and, in all likelihood, then next 1-2 seasons after that. Not because I said so, but because Les Snead, Jeff Fisher and Stan Kroenke seem to be saying so.

    Given that fact, I choose to look for the positives. That does not mean I'm oblivious to the negatives, I just choose not to make them my primary focus.
    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Of course not, Nick. I was merely using Brandt's statement as a symbol for fans' expectations. As you said, when a team takes a 1st round QB, their fans are going to be looking for Peyton instead of Alex. But sometimes, you get an Alex. I'm just glad we don't have Jamarcus, or Vince, or David, or Joey, or Tim, or Akili, or Ryan, or Heath, or Rick, or any other QB drafted in the top 3 picks that have been terrible.
    Both great responses!
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