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  1. #46
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue
    Hub,
    As an athlete you have to take total responsibility in what you put in your body, especially when your a paid athlete on a team sport.
    Which is why I started by saying....
    Quote Originally Posted by HUb
    Guys, ultimately, I agree.....every player is responsible for what goes in their bodies.
    And I'm not sure I can agree with you on this one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue
    The claim is that he called the league office & that particular supp was not on the list. So what?
    So the fact that the League tells him it's not on the list, then the League turns around and suspends him for a substance that the League has already said is not on the list.....has no bearing in this matter? Really?
    How hard would it be for him to go to the team trainer or send it out for a 3rd party breakdown of what it is.(this can be done)
    Why would he seek answers from someone who has no authority over him, when he already got the go-ahead from someone who DOES have authority over him?
    So come on do the homework & know what is on the list & what is legal to take
    You mean like communicate with the entity that maintains the list and get a ruling from them?

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #47
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by BIG-BLUE View Post
    The product he was using was not on the list, which simply means it is a supplement that has not gone thru the NFL testing,
    Or it means the manufacturer did not properly label, which appears to be the claim here.
    The NFL is not responsible for knowing the ingredients of every supp that is marketed.
    But they are responsible for the banned substance list. As his agent claims, he read the compounds to the NFL and the NFL's response was that nothing he read was on the list.

    IF he took the product he says he took, and
    IF the League told him the product was clean, and
    IF that product does have a banned compound not labeled......

    ....then I can't see where Vobora did anything wrong.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  3. #48
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Tampa_Ram View Post
    So does the fact that he called the hotline and was told it wasnt a banned substance not matter? was he to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion on this over the counter drug? Should he have called roger goodell and asked him personally?

    If you were a pro athlete and called the league and was told it was a non banned substance, would you continue to ask 2 or 3 others? The league said it wasnt a bannned substance, se he was to coninue and ask others? would anyone? i wouldnt. i checked with the league, league said ok. Am i to go further then that? and not believe the league?

    Athletes SHOULD NOT be role models, PERIOD ...

  4. #49
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by RamsInfiniti View Post
    Athletes SHOULD NOT be role models, PERIOD ...

    Im not saying athletes should be role models, just asking what you would do?

    What if your company told you parking in lot C wouldnt get you suspended and then you did it and then your CEO suspended you for it. would you think thats fair? thats the point im trying to get across. well along those lines at least.

    This isnt a case of athletes influencing what we would do, its just a case of what we would do if circumstances of likeness were set upon you or I.


  5. #50
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    For one you guys are kidding yourselves if you think he's the only one that puts things in his body that arent supposed to be. Wonder if this would have been say Tom Brady of Brett Farve if the NFL would have suspended them? If the label of this pill he supposedly took didnt include the banned ingredient is it still Vabora's fault? I think it is easy for the NFl to suspend Vabora for something like this but would they be so quick for the Adrian Peterson's of the NFL? I don't think they would and they would probably say well we didnt suspend Peterson because that product was not on the banned list yet and he placed the call so we are just going to warn him and he can't take it anymore.

    Look I dont care what these guys take personally. It's their bodies they can stuff whatever they want in them for all I care. I just want to watch football. Hell I just want to watch sports. I don't care about all this other bullcrap that is smeared in our faces by the media everyday. Steroids this and steroids that. Barry Bonds,Roger Clemons, who gives a flying crap? If you didnt know about the steroids and there was a point we didnt, werent they fun to watch play? Mcguire and Sosa siglehandedly putting baseball back on the map with their homerun derbies. Then some jerkoff thinks we as fans all need to know about steroids. I dont care, I want to watch sports not a freaking soap opera.

    Most athletes are cramming whatever they can into their bodies to either help them recover faster or perform better, that's fine with me. Also most athletes are a step ahead of the NFL on the things they cram into their bodies in order to keep from being caught. I didnt need to know about it back when Lyle Alzado was doing roids and I dont care to know whos doing it now.
    Just Fix It

  6. #51
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Or it means the manufacturer did not properly label, which appears to be the claim here. But they are responsible for the banned substance list. As his agent claims, he read the compounds to the NFL and the NFL's response was that nothing he read was on the list.

    IF he took the product he says he took, and
    IF the League told him the product was clean, and
    IF that product does have a banned compound not labeled......

    ....then I can't see where Vobora did anything wrong.
    That's a mighty big if Hub & if I had a dollar for every athlete who claims he didn't know I would be rich.
    Again why is it so hard to understand in today's game you have a banned substance list, have the **** analyzed before taking it. Every athlete who has been busted claims the same crap. You would have hoped by now that these athletes would haved figured out that they need to have the supps further analysed before consuming , your career demands it. In other words be proactive with your career. Again It's really not hard to do.

  7. #52
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    That's a mighty big if Hub & if I had a dollar for every athlete who claims he didn't know I would be rich.
    The difference being, there is NO possibility of you receiving a dollar for every claim. There IS a possibility of the scenario as spelled out by Vobora.
    Again why is it so hard to understand in today's game you have a banned substance list, have the **** analyzed before taking it.
    Again, why is it so hard to understand that he did his due diligence? He called the NFL. He read the ingredients to the NFL. Are you suggesting that he would finish that phone call and think, "Hmm, I know the NFL said there wasn't any banned substances in this supplement, but they might be lying to me, so..."?
    Every athlete who has been busted claims the same crap.
    Name one NFL player who has falsely claimed to call the NFL hotline and read the ingredients to them, had the NFL tell him the list was clean, then suspended him.
    You would have hoped by now that these athletes would haved figured out that they need to have the supps further analysed before consuming
    He called the NFL. That should have been the end of it.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  8. #53
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    As was stated earlier, if Vobora played for a large market team, he wouldn't have been suspended. If they would have even "found" an illegal substence, the fact that he had proof of a call the the NFL, they would have dropped it. At the very most, a large market team's player would have been afforded an appeal process before any suspension.


    gap

  9. #54
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    First off, 100% believing Vobora is telling the truth about what happened is every bit of a huge leap as believing that he took an "OK substance" that was some how tainted by the manufacturer.

    Maybe he's telling the truth completely, maybe he isn't. Athletes have been known to lie and even commit perjury when faced with these accusations.

    I'm not believing/disbelieving Vobora's story, but if I had top place a wager on it, I wouldn't put my money on believing everything he's claiming. It's not like a good portion of NFL suspensions are ever overturned or discovered to be in error or the "I'm going to sue the makers of this, my doctor, the team doctor, that fan in Row DD Seat 12" has happened.

  10. #55
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    He called the NFL. That should have been the end of it.
    So I am supposed to believe his story without question? I believe that a huge number of NFL players are dirty. People just aren't that big naturally. As others have said, the reason that "legal" items from GNC are banned is because they are masking agents. Let him serve his 4 games and be happy if he's the only one.

  11. #56
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ventesette
    So I am supposed to believe his story without question?
    No, you're not. But that is a different discussion. The discussion you quoted started with an assumption of truth. In that context, which is to say what he claims is true, then yes his call to the NFL should have ended it.

    But if you would like to discuss the willingness to believe him, that is a separate issue. Personally, I'm neutral on that one. I WANT to believe him. And with his defense being so specific and capable of verification, it leans me toward believing him. However, as I know next to nothing in the way of facts on this one, I can't proclaim that I wholly believe him.



    P.S. What the flip is your avatar?
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    Here is an update from NFL.com:

    Lillibridge said that Vobora called the league’s hotline to check on the product this summer before taking it and was told it was not on the banned list. However, Lillibridge also said Vobora was told, “It was not on the list of officially sanctioned products, and ultimately a player is responsible for anything he puts in his body.”
    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    No, you're not. But that is a different discussion. The discussion you quoted started with an assumption of truth. In that context, which is to say what he claims is true, then yes his call to the NFL should have ended it.

    But if you would like to discuss the willingness to believe him, that is a separate issue. Personally, I'm neutral on that one. I WANT to believe him. And with his defense being so specific and capable of verification, it leans me toward believing him. However, as I know next to nothing in the way of facts on this one, I can't proclaim that I wholly believe him.
    The fact is that we are comparing what he says to an actual test. No matter what he says he took, the fact is that he failed the test. The NFL did not say the product was okay, in fact they specifically said it was not on the sanctioned list, but that it was not on the banned list either. Like every other agent this guy is claiming the product was "tainted".

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    P.S. What the flip is your avatar?
    Italian singer Renato Zero. If you guys let us post videos I'd post that song "Il Triangolo" one of the most demented disco era things you'll ever see.

  13. #58
    HUbison's Avatar
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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Vensette
    The fact is that we are comparing what he says to an actual test. No matter what he says he took, the fact is that he failed the test.
    I don't think anyone is arguing he didn't. If the question is....was the effects of a banned substance found in his system? Then the answer would have to be, yes.
    The NFL did not say the product was okay
    Nor did they say it was NOT okay.
    Italian singer Renato Zero. If you guys let us post videos I'd post that song "Il Triangolo" one of the most demented disco era things you'll ever see.
    Is that a dude, a chick, or something in between.
    Last edited by HUbison; -10-02-2009 at 02:01 PM.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing he didn't. If the question is....was the effects of a banned substance found in his system? Then the answer would have to be, yes. Nor did they say it was NOT okay..
    I'm not sure I get the difference. He called them to find out if it was okay and they told him that it wasn't on the banned list, but that it wasn't certified. That means let the buyer beware. You think it's some legal supplement and there isn't the same stuff in another bottle that is approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison View Post
    Is that a dude, a chick, or something in between.
    Born a dude, but currently (and in the 80's when that video is from) probably closer to something in between.

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    Re: David Vobora suspended 4 games

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnight View Post
    I think that if you buy a Supplement and then you fail a Drug test because of "Illegal" ingredients in the supplement that were not listed on the ingredients, then you should definetly not be suspended. it's not his fault that the product was not labled right. they tell you to check the stuff thats in it, and you do and it appears clean, then you fail because of a "hidden" drug in what you thought was ok. I just hate the way that The NFL Handles these things. not a fan at all
    Seriously?

    If you say that you took a supplement and didn't take the banned substance that you tested positive for the NFL should believe it was a mislabeled product? Isn't it more likely these players don't want to admit to taking banned substances than that they are ALL testing positive for "hidden" drugs.

    The reason they are all claiming tainted supplements is becuase they are almost all testing positive for masking agents. Few have an actual positive for a "performance enhancer". Admitting that they took the banned masking agent intentionally would make it too easy for the public to make the jump to the actual PED.

    I know we all like these guys, but they aren't all pillars of the community. They are in a violent, competitive sport where their careers, earning power and safety are on the line every day. You have to expect them to do everything possible to maximize their chances.

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