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Thread: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

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    December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    December 24, 2011. The vikings go on the road and beat the redskins, giving them 3 wins for the year. That win (the most expensive meaningless win in the history of the vikings and probably in the history of the NFL), coupled with our 2-14 season, gave us the #2 pick in the draft, and therefore the RG III ammunition. The vikings held the tiebreaker over us if we both wound up with 2 wins, thus, that win vs the skins directly cost them rg 3.

    We have debated many times on this board whether it ever makes sense to cheer for the Rams to lose. I defy anyone to tell me at this point that our franchise would be in the same shape today if we didnt wind up with RG 3, which would not have happened if we won in the last week of the season. Said another way, how would you like to be a vikings fan, knowing that RG 3 (either the player or the bounty of picks) was in your grasp, yet you didnt get him because of a win in week 15 to allow you to finish 3-13 instead of 2-14.

    Sometimes, in life and in football, you need to absorb short term losses for your long term best interests. While there is no guarantee that a better draft pick gets you better players, this is certainly one case where there was a direct cause and effect between losing out in a terrible season and getting a win at the end which wouldn't make a hill of beans difference in evaluating the success of the season, and which would have materially impaired your chances of future success.

    Food for thought for those people on this board that have said that they would never cheer for a Rams loss in any circumstance, and there were plenty of people advancing that argument in the past.

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    The Vikings were a playoff team this year, while we stayed home. I don't think they have much regret.
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    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    With all disrespect Hubison, i strongly disagree. They may have been a playoff team, but I dont think they are closer to winning a title than we are. I don't view making the playoffs as the long term goal, for me, its about winning titles. I understand your point and agree with you as it relates to Vikings players, but from the point of view of a fan, they would have been a lot closer to winning a title, and in fact would be deeper in the playoffs, if they had rg 3 and the player they would have taken in the first round instead of ponder than they are now if they hadnt won that meaningless game at the end of 2011. The 2011 Vikings were a team that had plenty of talent, but the Peterson injury and several other factors led them to have a terrible year. We were much worse off talent wise.

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    I disagree. The fact that a particular loss - when coupled with timing, fate, and a great trade by the front office - conferred a benefit upon the Rams does not, in my mind, justify hoping for losses.

    When you're on the field, you try to win.

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    In retrospect I'm glad we were able to land the #2 pick to stockpile on picks (although I was pretty bitter with those losses we made during the 2011 season). Whether we got those picks or not, I think we'd still be heading in the right direction because Stan Kroenke was willing to go all out and get Jeff Fisher (who proceeded to get Les Snead). We could've also gotten extra picks with Cleveland as well with Trent Richardson or took him ourselves. I'm not a fan of playing "what if" games but I believe we'd still be headed to the right direction right away. Maybe not as fast as we currently are, but still heading there.
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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    We probably just wouldn't have brockers. And we would probably have morris claiborne instead of janoris jenkins. And I guess no ogletree. Would that be the only difference?


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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    Adding even more fuel to the speculation, chances are, if we had the Vikings pick, we would have ended up with Blackmon.

    O_O

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    I was happy when we lost that game, and I'm even happier now. There was no reason to win. We had 3 or 4 Olineman on IR. We had 10 CB's on IR. We had a few WR's on IR. Our QB was hurt for 1/3rd of the season. That is a season that is totally washed out of my mind.
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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    Falling into position for the 2nd pick, and using it to get to the point where we are now, turned out great, but like Av, I don't think it justifies cheering for the Rams to lose. I could never, and would never actively cheer for the Rams to lose. I'm not wired that way, and it goes against everything I believe. Watching my team put out an effort and desire to win, while hoping they go down in defeat, is a concept I don't get, but that's just me.
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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    I will never want the rams to lose no matter what. And i never have and i never will. Having said that though, i am glad they did lose and ended at 2-14 instead of 3-13. Even if i knew that having the #2 would give us a bounty in the draft, i would still root for the Rams to win. It is just physically impossible for me to root for the Rams to lose. But as i said, i am glad they did in the end.
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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    With all disrespect Hubison, i strongly disagree.
    I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. My only statement of opinion was that the Vikings didn't have any regrets from winning that game. If you know of Vikings that regret winning that game, I'm all ears.

    The rest of my statement was simple fact, and not subject to opinion: the Vikings were a playoff team, we were not.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    What i am disagreeing with, and we can agree to disagree, is that i do think the vikings ownership and front office regrets winning that game, as do a majority of vikings fans. The front office will never admit it of course, but i think that they would rather have rg 3 and whatever they would have taken rather than ponder rather than winning that game. In that sense, i strongly believe that they regret the win.

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    I totally agree. I don't think anyone would have argued if, in the last game of the season with 2 wins, we tried out some of our back-ups who we thought might have potential the following year, and sat a veteran or two. The thought being that at that point in the season, you are playing for next year. Prior to the last game of the season, you try to win, but the exception is when you are tied with the other worst teams in the league, and the potential first pick in the draft is on the line, you just don't go win that last game.

    If you have 4 or 5 wins, you try to win the last game. But in the bottom of the barrel scenario, you just go ahead and write that season off and don't make it any worse by actually winning the last game of the year and not getting the best pick the following year. (or in this case, the 2nd pick vs. the 3rd pick).

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    Quote Originally Posted by general counsel View Post
    What i am disagreeing with, and we can agree to disagree, is that i do think the vikings ownership and front office regrets winning that game, as do a majority of vikings fans.
    Then yes, we will agree to disagree. I can't imagine the staff of an NFL playoff team regretting a win from a previous season.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: December 24, 2011-the turning point in Rams history

    So does this mean we regret winning the game against the browns that put us at the number 2 spot and not the number 1?

    If we got a lot for RG3 then imagine what we could of got for Luck.
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