Defensively, the Rams are offensive

[txramsfan]

Little is getting old and Adeyanju is only average. Glover is about to sign up for his AARP card and Eric Moore is just a body out there. Carriker is a bright spot but Ryan is still a work in progress. Not a front line that's going to scare anyone's running game.

Now the LB's. Spoon is probably our best defensive player right now and probably would be up there on any team. However, Pisa is either hurt or overpursuing a play, Culberson is raw and green, Draft is right in line with Glover at AARP and McGarigle can't get off the practice squad. Not an intimidating front 7.

Then the secondary. Some say that the lack of a pass rush hurts them and that's true, but let's look at this group. Brown is our best CB and he's probably gone. Hill, well to me he's been a disappointment but I'll give him another year. Bartell? only a nickel at best. Wade? Really struggled his rookie year. Looked out of place most of the time.

OJ is a bright spot. Great talent to build around. Chavous is in front of Glover and Draft in that same line.

This defense is going to take last years draft, this years draft, and next years draft to get competitive. They may get better this year but not competitive. So, who's at fault here? I say it's the front office. I don't really have time to look over everything but starting with Dre Bly, everyone on the defensive side of the ball has been "overpriced" while on the offense they go out with a Brinks truck and sign players like Bennett.

[Rambos]

Nice post Tx, I’m not as down on the D as you are you but it's hard to argue with what you just laid out. Got me to thinking when you said the FO is at fault. Just think IF we drafted better. Passed on Kennedy took DE CALVIN PACE. Took a pass on Damione Lewis and took, Marcus Stroud or Hutchinson. Passed on Adam Archuleta and took Nate Clements. Yeah I know hindsight is 20/20 but we need to hit on our first and second round picks. We could have four more drafts, if they are as bad as the last four, we will still be at the bottom.

I don’t want anyone to analyze the players I have substituted, that’s not the point. The point is we have not drafted well and have not retained the few picks that have panned out.

[chipperjones]

Chris Draft didnt get his chance last year. He is old, but he still has plenty of gas in the tank. This is a huge if, but IF Pisa can stay healthy...along with Spoon and Draft....I feel we will have a good LB corpse. However we all know Pisa wont stay healthy.

[chipperjones]

Originally Posted by txramsfan

Little is getting old and Adeyanju is only average. Glover is about to sign up for his AARP card and Eric Moore is just a body out there. Carriker is a bright spot but Ryan is still a work in progress. Not a front line that's going to scare anyone's running game.

Now the LB's. Spoon is probably our best defensive player right now and probably would be up there on any team. However, Pisa is either hurt or overpursuing a play, Culberson is raw and green, Draft is right in line with Glover at AARP and McGarigle can't get off the practice squad. Not an intimidating front 7.

Then the secondary. Some say that the lack of a pass rush hurts them and that's true, but let's look at this group. Brown is our best CB and he's probably gone. Hill, well to me he's been a disappointment but I'll give him another year. Bartell? only a nickel at best. Wade? Really struggled his rookie year. Looked out of place most of the time.

OJ is a bright spot. Great talent to build around. Chavous is in front of Glover and Draft in that same line.

This defense is going to take last years draft, this years draft, and next years draft to get competitive. They may get better this year but not competitive. So, who's at fault here? I say it's the front office. I don't really have time to look over everything but starting with Dre Bly, everyone on the defensive side of the ball has been "overpriced" while on the offense they go out with a Brinks truck and sign players like Bennett.

I'm just gonna point out that Ryan had better numbers than Carriker, but I do see your point.

[VegasRam]

Originally Posted by chipperjones

Chris Draft didnt get his chance last year. He is old, but he still has plenty of gas in the tank. This is a huge if, but IF Pisa can stay healthy...along with Spoon and Draft....I feel we will have a good LB corpse. However we all know Pisa wont stay healthy.

Talk about your freudian slips!

Just kiddin', chipper. Couldn't resist, given the topic.

[Dominating D]

I disagree with your time frame.

Last year was disappointing but the D did improve. You have to give some players time to develope in this league. We have some raw talent and now they have some experience lets see where it can goooo.

Do not forget Strahan was consider old last year and the Giants D secondary was laughable until the front line combine effort of raw and old talent dominated late in the year.

It's possible that the Rams could have a dominate defensive line with a little help in the draft if Ryan, Carriker step up their play.... Little may see some 1 on 1 action and who knows he may have a career year......

I may have rose color glasses on but I believe this team has alot of talent and if the coaches can develop some of the raw talent and incorporate system that plays to the players talent this team could and will compete for a playoff spot.....

Just my 2 pennies worth....

[renrawtruk]

Definitely we are where we are (3-13) due to poor draft picks. Not sure who to blame. Perhaps just the "luck of a Rams fan".

From a slightly different perspective: Most are of the opinion that Mike Martz ignored the defense, but I think bringing in Lovie Smith in his 3rd year and then drafting 3 consecutive years of defense with the first AND second round picks shows that he did make the defense a priority, not to mention 3 picks in the first round of '01:

2001: Damione lewis
Adam Archuleta
Ryan Pickett
2nd round: Tommy Polley
3rd round: Brian Allen

2002: Robert Thomas
2nd round: Travis Fisher

2003: Jimmy Kennedy
2nd round: Pisa Tinoisamoa

So what else can you do, but draft, draft, draft for defense?

We signed Kim Herring in 2002 from the SB champ Ravens, who was a bust.

Although losing Dre bly was huge, we also let Az Hakim go in lieu of signing Leanord Little.

So it's not like we didn't try, we just didn't get one good player out of all these draft picks. And because of all these busts on defense, we have spent the last 4 years trying to fix everything else that had been neglected (special teams, offensive line, etc...) and we STILL don't have a good defense.

[keith m. klink]

AND YES you can , by all means blame the FO and all the way up to the owners . Because i'll tell you what , if anyone of us owned a team and drafted like that year in and year out than someone lost their job's a long long time ago , because i would have said " a few crap picks in a few years of drafting ' your gone pal. i'll do the drafting myself with the help of the CLAN , at least they have a common sense view to drafting talent . THEN i would have hired PARCELL'S and left it at that .

[Yodude]

Not sure who to blame. Perhaps just the "luck of a Rams fan".

Luck???? Hardly!

AND YES you can , by all means blame the FO and all the way up to the owners

You couldn't be more right. Over the past thirty years, we have had a horrendous track record with drafting. Sure there have been some gems, as I've said time and time again, even a blind squirrel fins a nut now and then. But as a whole, our draft record has been pathetic. Over the last 30 years, we have had 8 head coaches. That represents a change in philosophy/system every 3 to 4 years. What's been the one constant over that same time period? Pretty much the ownership and front office. Not only do they have minimal talent at evaluating player talent, but it would appear their coaching evalution skills are less than desirable.

From a slightly different perspective: Most are of the opinion that Mike Martz ignored the defense, but I think bringing in Lovie Smith in his 3rd year and then drafting 3 consecutive years of defense with the first AND second round picks shows that he did make the defense a priority, not to mention 3 picks in the first round of '01:

2001: Damione lewis
Adam Archuleta
Ryan Pickett
2nd round: Tommy Polley
3rd round: Brian Allen

2002: Robert Thomas
2nd round: Travis Fisher

2003: Jimmy Kennedy
2nd round: Pisa Tinoisamoa

So what else can you do, but draft, draft, draft for defense?

We signed Kim Herring in 2002 from the SB champ Ravens, who was a bust.

Although losing Dre bly was huge, we also let Az Hakim go in lieu of signing Leanord Little.

So it's not like we didn't try, we just didn't get one good player out of all these draft picks. And because of all these busts on defense, we have spent the last 4 years trying to fix everything else that had been neglected (special teams, offensive line, etc...) and we STILL don't have a good defense.

Yes we have tried, and I think that this track record, without a doubt, shows clearly that the front office had no skill whatsoever at talent evaluation.

The fact that it took this front office this long to start a player/personnel department shows a total lack of commitment to fielding a winning organization. Either that or you can chalk it up as blatant stupidity.

[Goldenfleece]

I don't think Draft's age is really that big a problem yet. You can't put Draft "right in line with Glover at AARP" when one just turned 32 and the other will be 34 by the start of the season. If both play until they're 35, this would be Glover's last season, but Draft would be playing for 3 more years. To me, that puts them in quite different situations with regards to the team's future. I think Tinoisamoa/Witherspoon/Draft is a pretty good squad of linebackers. Not the best in the league, but better than many.

When it came to stopping the run last year, we allowed the same yards/carry as San Diego. That was 0.1 y/c behind Dallas, Pittsburgh, and Tennessee. The impact of Carriker and Ryan on the run defense should not be understated. The main flaw in our front seven is the defensive end position.

I'm curious exactly what you mean by "competitive" on defense. We finished 21st in total defense last season, which puts us slightly below average. And there were games where we were completely shutting down the opposing team's offense until they broke a 60 yard run in the fourth quarter or something like that. I'm not excusing the defensive miscues last season, but I'm pointing out that if not for a few of those knucklehead plays, we'd be right there in the middle of the pack despite having Little out most of the season, Hill and Pisa each missing about half the season, and the offense routinely putting the D in unenviable field position. Our defensive ends didn't seem to even understand the concept of "pass rushing" this season, and we still did better than 11 other teams. I would argue that while neither unit was overly impressive in 2007, the defense actually outperformed the offense. A little improvement and we're looking at maybe one of the better units in the league (albeit still thin on depth).

[chipperjones]

Originally Posted by VegasRam

Talk about your freudian slips!

Just kiddin', chipper. Couldn't resist, given the topic.

Haha...I looked and looked and was like what is talking about...but I see.

[ScottD413]

I hate to admit it, but our defense will be a big problem. On the bright side however, we do have 32 tight ends on the roster

[txramsfan]

I'm not big on "we were 21.567 in the league against the run" kind of stats. Lots have to do with that. How's the pass rush? How's the secondary? Can you throw till the QB's arm falls off? All those factors actually go into against the run stats.

Look, I would love to be wrong on this but I don't think I am. Draft's age is a concern. We just let a LB who was in his mid 20's walk for birdseed and we have a LB in his early 30's taking his place. To me that's a pattern. Let the young guys who we develop walk and plug them in with old veterans.

I'm not really blasting the players, I'm dogging the front office. They let young guys walk who play decently to sign older veterans to save money on the defense, then go out and spend loads of money on a WR like Bennett who I guarantee will be hurt again in 08.

[Dominating D]

Originally Posted by renrawtruk

Definitely we are where we are (3-13) due to poor draft picks. Not sure who to blame. Perhaps just the "luck of a Rams fan".

From a slightly different perspective: Most are of the opinion that Mike Martz ignored the defense, but I think bringing in Lovie Smith in his 3rd year and then drafting 3 consecutive years of defense with the first AND second round picks shows that he did make the defense a priority, not to mention 3 picks in the first round of '01:

2001: Damione lewis
Adam Archuleta
Ryan Pickett
2nd round: Tommy Polley
3rd round: Brian Allen

2002: Robert Thomas
2nd round: Travis Fisher

2003: Jimmy Kennedy
2nd round: Pisa Tinoisamoa

So what else can you do, but draft, draft, draft for defense?

We signed Kim Herring in 2002 from the SB champ Ravens, who was a bust.

Although losing Dre bly was huge, we also let Az Hakim go in lieu of signing Leanord Little.

So it's not like we didn't try, we just didn't get one good player out of all these draft picks. And because of all these busts on defense, we have spent the last 4 years trying to fix everything else that had been neglected (special teams, offensive line, etc...) and we STILL don't have a good defense.

So injuries and coaching and free agency has no role. It's all about the draft?

I disagree, unfortunately the draft is not an exact science..... Most of the picks they made which Ram fans consider a bust the fans were happy when the pick was made. Also, most of the players who got picked was the highest rated player at the position when drafted by the Rams ie.... Kennedy, Lewis, Thomas.....

Say we get Chris Long or Jake and they turn into a bust 3-4 years later who will you blame. I know I won't point a finger cause I am hoping they get Chris and if not I will be happy with Jake.....

Go Rams

[jquarando]

Originally Posted by txramsfan

I'm not big on "we were 21.567 in the league against the run" kind of stats. Lots have to do with that. How's the pass rush? How's the secondary? Can you throw till the QB's arm falls off? All those factors actually go into against the run stats.

Look, I would love to be wrong on this but I don't think I am. Draft's age is a concern. We just let a LB who was in his mid 20's walk for birdseed and we have a LB in his early 30's taking his place. To me that's a pattern. Let the young guys who we develop walk and plug them in with old veterans.

I'm not really blasting the players, I'm dogging the front office. They let young guys walk who play decently to sign older veterans to save money on the defense, then go out and spend loads of money on a WR like Bennett who I guarantee will be hurt again in 08.

No offense TX im a little concerned with your evalution. From watching every game last year it felt like they were MUCH improved over the 06 version. Why would you think otherwise? Yes they let chillar go but the strong side linebacker is not an important feature on this defense. Yes draft is old but he looked more solid than pisa did and in 06 he led the panthers in tackles. Also we have culberson who, from me watching the games, looked very stout and worth the "risk" of letting chillar walk. Once again we have a LOT of money tied up in WW and Pisa so how can you justify giving up 4 mil to a guy who is just average? I agree that past drafts sucked but you can still find articles about how much of steal kennedy was. Point is hindsight is 20/15 and I guess you can blame the FO for letting AA walk into the biggest contract in safety history. Is AA one of the people you are mad at the FO for letting him walk? I guess letting fletcher go was bad but the guy couldnt cover and has only really been an above average backer. I know he meant a lot but We can focus on him as a bad move. Im getting off track but I guess if you want to we can debate each player. Point is im still confused as to why you are so down on this defense. I see them as one player away from being extremely solid.