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Thread: Depth Chart

  1. #31
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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    We posted the same thing at the same time again. This is getting weird.
    Hey, you know us fanatical Ike fans.


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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    My main point was more about the difference between opinion and fact and less about Bruce, but anyways. You can argue loyalty from both the Rams side and from Bruce's side of things successfully, just like you can argue keeping him or cutting him. There are valid points to both sides of the discussion.

    So Bruce shouldn't sign with the Whiners and Martz who he likes, trusts, and already knows the offense only because it's the Whiners? Bruce should say ok the Rams just cut me but I won't sign with the Whiners because the Rams hate them. Sorry, I don't buy that. The Rams did what they had to do, and then Bruce did what he had to do. It's unfortunate that Martz went to the Whiners because it was fairly obvious to me at least that Bruce was going to follow Martz wherever he went if he wasn't a Ram.
    A Rivalry is a rivalry.No matter which way you cut it. If the question was about knowing the offense, well we got Al Saunders didn't we? He basically run's the same offense, don't forget he was with us for for 2 years during the GSOT era. Look, I'm not trying to undermine people's opinions, they ARE opinions. My basic point was the Ram's did what they had to do but with that said, their intention was to keep him NOT cut him. And let's not forget who messed up the Ram's in the first place. Mike Martz.

    P.S- You want to talk about making things seem factual when your sittin there tellin me Ike would have gone wherever Martz would have gone? Hmmm, did he have you over for a BB-Q or somethin? (I'm not tryin to be an a-hole just to let you know)
    Last edited by rams4life88; -03-28-2008 at 02:32 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by rams4life88 View Post
    A Rivalry is a rivalry.No matter which way you cut it. If the question was about knowing the offense, well we got Al Saunders didn't we? He basically run's the same offense, don't forget he was with us for for 2 years during the GSOT era. Look, I'm not trying to undermine people's opinions, they ARE opinions. My basic point was the Ram's did what they had to do but with that said, their intention was to keep him NOT cut him. And let's not forget who messed up the Ram's in the first place. Mike Martz.

    P.S- You want to talk about making things seem factual when your sittin there tellin me Ike would have gone wherever Martz would have gone? Hmmm, did he have you over for a BB-Q or somethin? (I'm not tryin to be an a-hole just to let you know)
    Rivalry is not a good reason to not sign with a team, I don't care what team it is.

    So you think the Rams did enough to keep him and I don't. You think we will be ok at WR, I think we are thin at WR. Agree to disagree.

    Yep I said there is a difference between opinion and fact. My opinion before Bruce left was that I thought he would follow Martz if he wasn't a Ram and I said that here weeks before we cut him. That's what I thought would happen, so did many of us. It turned out that it is now a fact, he did follow Martz.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Rivalry is not a good reason to not sign with a team, I don't care what team it is.

    So you think the Rams did enough to keep him and I don't. You think we will be ok at WR, I think we are thin at WR. Agree to disagree.

    Yep I said there is a difference between opinion and fact. My opinion before Bruce left was that I thought he would follow Martz if he wasn't a Ram and I said that here weeks before we cut him. That's what I thought would happen, so did many of us. It turned out that it is now a fact, he did follow Martz.

    Rivalry is not a reason to not sign with a team? I'm not even going to answer that.Nobody said we weren't thin at WR. Look, TekeRam brought up some great points in another thread that basically proves what I've been tryin to say, I don't know what your idea is of the Rams doing enough to keep him. We offered him a very decent contract. Pride got in his way,that's not the Ram's fault. I dont care what anyone says. I'm not going to bash your every post just because it's you. I'm just trying to be logical about this particular "discussion".

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by TekeRam View Post
    First off, last year a lot of people were paid to produce and didn't. Not all of them were hurt. Not all of them were players. As for Bennett's case, just watch when a high profile receiver hurts his hammy in this upcoming year. The reporters will remind people that the injury usually lasts all year. That's what happened to Bennett. You can come back from the injury, but it hurts your explosiveness and speed all year long.

    As for how much he's costing, his cap charge is almost $2M under what Bruce would have cost had we kept him. He's just slightly above what the Whiners signed him for. He's much younger and will be a player on this team for years to come. It's important that he start earning the money we have given him by becoming a starter on this team. Everyone got so angry that we paid him so much to be our third receiver. No we paid him to eventually take over for Bruce. Now everyone's mad that he'll actually earn the paycheck that he gets. Bruce meant a lot more to the fans than he did to the franchise. He has been a great player for many many years but now he's declined. If you want to win, sometime you need to make sacrifices, and Bruce ended up becoming one, by his choice. Should we have kept asking him to restructure? Maybe not. But the fact remains, he wasn't going to be performing up to the level of his cap charge. Give Bennett the chance to do that.
    Simply what I was trying to say this entire time.

  6. #36
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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by rams4life88 View Post
    Rivalry is not a reason to not sign with a team? I'm not even going to answer that.Nobody said we weren't thin at WR. Look, TekeRam brought up some great points in another thread that basically proves what I've been tryin to say, I don't know what your idea of the Rams doing enough to keep him. We offered him a very decent contract. Pride got in his way,that's not the Ram's fault. I dont care what anyone says. I'm not going to bash your every post just because it's you. I'm just trying to be logical about this particular "discussion".
    You really think players care about rivalry when they sign somewhere else? Football is a business for the teams AND the players. You need to look at it from the players side also, not just the teams side.

    It doesn't prove anything. It so happens that you and Teke agree on your opinions. r8rh8rmike and I agree about Bruce. There is no right and wrong. There are valid reasons on both sides. Why is that so hard to understand.

    You think the Rams offered him enough, again that's your opinion. I don't think they did. You think pride got in his way, you don't know the real reason. None of us know, and unless Ike comes out and says it and the Rams confirm it or vice versa we will never know.

    If you want to be logical see that there are valid points to both sides.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    You really think players care about rivalry when they sign somewhere else? Football is a business for the teams AND the players. You need to look at it from the players side also, not just the teams side.

    It doesn't prove anything. It so happens that you and Teke agree on your opinions. r8rh8rmike and I agree about Bruce. There is no right and wrong. There are valid reasons on both sides. Why is that so hard to understand.

    You think the Rams offered him enough, again that's your opinion. I don't think they did. You think pride got in his way, you don't know the real reason. None of us know, and unless Ike comes out and says it and the Rams confirm it or vice versa we will never know.

    If you want to be logical see that there are valid points to both sides.
    "There is no right and wrong." Tell me if Bruce in a Whiners Jersey looks right to you. And yes, it is a business, like you said, for the players as well. That's my entire point to why he left. I keep stressing that he could have stayed. But he didn't.Again, I like how you intelligently (or not) refuse or avoid answering some of my questions. In all your honesty, what is YOUR idea of "doing enough to keep Bruce". You want to be logical as well. Think about our situation with the cap. He had to be sacrificed, but it's not like the Ram's straight up dumped him on the street. 2M under what he asked SHOULD be enough to keep a player THAT age. That's being loyal. But obviously we had different opinions on what loyalty is.
    Last edited by rams4life88; -03-28-2008 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    rams4life88, I understand what you are trying to say. I understand what RamsBruce is trying to say too. Whether or not we should have let Bruce go is certainly debatable. But do you really have to say things like "if Bruce was really a loyal Ram" or "pride got in his way" or other derogatory things like that? Isaac Bruce was an extremely productive and extremely classy receiver with this team for a long time. If you think it was his time to go, fine. But don't drag the guy through the mud. He has done more than enough for this team. For whatever reason, he is gone and on the niners. Nobody here likes that, but don't sit here and crucify the guy and make him look like a bad guy. He moved on and so should we. Now that he is on the niners, you don't see him slamming us, do you? Extend him the same courtesy.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by rams4life88 View Post
    "There is no right and wrong." Tell me if Bruce in a Whiners Jersey looks right to you. And yes, it is a business, like you said, for the players as well. That's my entire point to why he left. I keep stressing that he could have stayed. But he didn't.Again, I like how you intelligently (or not) refuse or avoid answering some of my questions. In all your honesty, what is YOUR idea of "doing enough to keep Bruce". You want to be logical as well. Think about our situation with the cap. He had to be sacrificed, but it's not like the Ram's straight up dumped him on the street.
    Don't quote me out of context. I said there is no right and wrong when discussing the pros and cons of keeping or cutting Bruce. Once again there are valid points on both sides.

    Of course I'm not happy he's a whiner. Do I hold it against him, no. He did what he had to do, just like the Rams did.

    Sure he could have stayed, I never said he couldn't. The Rams could have also paid him the last year on his contract. Again there are valid points to both sides.

    I haven't avoided any of your questions. It's quite clear that I think the Rams should have paid him the last year of his contract. I know what the cap situation is. The Rams owed him 5 mil, they offered him 3 mil, so we are looking at a 2 mil difference. The Rams could have asked some big contract guys like Bulger, Holt, Pace if they would restructure to make up the 2 mil to keep Bruce. Nobody knows if the Rams asked anyone or not, but that was an option. I mean it's not like the Rams never asked Bruce to restructure right?

    We have Holt with a chronic knee problem, Bennett who can't seem to stay healthy, and not much else. So again I think the Rams should have found a way to pay Bruce because we are thin at WR.

    This is going in circles. The bottom line is you think the Rams made a good decision and you think Bruce should have taken another pay cut. That's your opinion. There are some valid points for that side of it. I think the Rams made a bad decision, they should have paid Bruce what they owed him. That's my opinion. There are also valid points for this side of it. So it's simple, there is no right and wrong, we agree to disagree.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by cfh128 View Post
    rams4life88, I understand what you are trying to say. I understand what RamsBruce is trying to say too. Whether or not we should have let Bruce go is certainly debatable. But do you really have to say things like "if Bruce was really a loyal Ram" or "pride got in his way" or other derogatory things like that? Isaac Bruce was an extremely productive and extremely classy receiver with this team for a long time. If you think it was his time to go, fine. But don't drag the guy through the mud. He has done more than enough for this team. For whatever reason, he is gone and on the niners. Nobody here likes that, but don't sit here and crucify the guy and make him look like a bad guy. He moved on and so should we. Now that he is on the niners, you don't see him slamming us, do you? Extend him the same courtesy.
    I'm not making him a seem like a bad guy.Don't try to turn it around. My point is the Ram's are better off without him at this point. The focus should be on the team and not one single player, no player is an entire team.I used to love Bruce, that's why it sux so much he went to the whiners. And he kind of did slam us if you seen his previous interview. I'm not going to argue/debate/discuss whatever you choose to call this anymore....It's obvioulsy not going anywhere.
    Last edited by rams4life88; -03-28-2008 at 11:59 PM.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Don't quote me out of context. I said there is no right and wrong when discussing the pros and cons of keeping or cutting Bruce. Once again there are valid points on both sides.

    Of course I'm not happy he's a whiner. Do I hold it against him, no. He did what he had to do, just like the Rams did.

    Sure he could have stayed, I never said he couldn't. The Rams could have also paid him the last year on his contract. Again there are valid points to both sides.

    I haven't avoided any of your questions. It's quite clear that I think the Rams should have paid him the last year of his contract. I know what the cap situation is. The Rams owed him 5 mil, they offered him 3 mil, so we are looking at a 2 mil difference. The Rams could have asked some big contract guys like Bulger, Holt, Pace if they would restructure to make up the 2 mil to keep Bruce. Nobody knows if the Rams asked anyone or not, but that was an option. I mean it's not like the Rams never asked Bruce to restructure right?

    We have Holt with a chronic knee problem, Bennett who can't seem to stay healthy, and not much else. So again I think the Rams should have found a way to pay Bruce because we are thin at WR.

    This is going in circles. The bottom line is you think the Rams made a good decision and you think Bruce should have taken another pay cut. That's your opinion. There are some valid points for that side of it. I think the Rams made a bad decision, they should have paid Bruce what they owed him. That's my opinion. There are also valid points for this side of it. So it's simple, there is no right and wrong, we agree to disagree.
    LoL. You are a stubborn one aren't you. Gosh, where do I even begin here. Look, like i said above, I'm not going to discuss this any longer for it's becoming a he said she said type of thing. Whatever. But before I conclude whatever it is I have to say let me just remind you something. He was on the last year of his contract, yes. The rams offered him a 3yr $9m dollar contract for him to stay with us. That's 3 million a season, just in case your mathematically challenged. As for holding it against him, if i do or not. That's my choice. I for one, am for building the team through the draft while signing few but quality FA's. So far that's what the Ram's direction is headed with Bill Devaney. That wouldn't be so possible if we overpaid a guy that age with decreased production. We NEED to get younger. There is no ands ifs or buts about it.Don't even compare it to Holt. He's 31 and still has some good years in him and Bennett was unfortunate for being hurt last year. Let the guy actually have a year at starter under his belt before you condemn him. Everyone has the right to their opinion, i'm not questioning that. But before you call someone out. THINK a bit more about the situation. You sat there and said that the Ram's messed up their cap situation in the first place, and now that we are trying to fix it, you want them to stay in a hole?.......That's it for now, bottom line, they tried with a more then generous contract offer. He chose not to stay. That's his fault. And again, I never once questioned his quality or such so don't try to say that i'm undermining the player he really is because he is a 1st ballot HOF. No doubt about it.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by rams4life88 View Post
    LoL. You are a stubborn one aren't you. Gosh, where do I even begin here. Look, like i said above, I'm not going to discuss this any longer for it's becoming a he said she said type of thing. Whatever. But before I conclude whatever it is I have to say let me just remind you something. He was on the last year of his contract, yes. The rams offered him a 3yr $9m dollar contract for him to stay with us. That's 3 million a season, just in case your mathematically challenged. As for holding it against him, if i do or not. That's my choice. I for one, am for building the team through the draft while signing few but quality FA's. So far that's what the Ram's direction is headed with Bill Devaney. That wouldn't be so possible if we overpaid a guy that age with decreased production. We NEED to get younger. There is no ands ifs or buts about it.Don't even compare it to Holt. He's 31 and still has some good years in him and Bennett was unfortunate for being hurt last year. Let the guy actually have a year at starter under his belt before you condemn him. Everyone has the right to their opinion, i'm not questioning that. But before you call someone out. THINK a bit more about the situation. You sat there and said that the Ram's messed up their cap situation in the first place, and now that we are trying to fix it, you want them to stay in a hole?.......That's it for now, bottom line, they tried with a more then generous contract offer. He chose not to stay. That's his fault. And again, I never once questioned his quality or such so don't try to say that i'm undermining the player he really is because he is a 1st ballot HOF. No doubt about it.
    You can't be serious. Wow, you are so far off I don't know what to tell you. First you present your opinion as a fact. Then you say because the whiners are a rival Bruce shouldn't sign there. That makes no sense whatsoever. You can't seem to grasp the concept that there are two sides to the Bruce discussion that are both valid.

    Now you don't even have the information right about what the Rams offered Bruce. They didn't offer Bruce a three year deal for 9 mil. They offered him a 1 year deal for 3 mil. Know the facts before you post.

    If Bruce turned down a 3 year 9 mil deal to go to the whiners we wouldn't even be having this discussion because I would have said good bye to Bruce that day.

    Then you take a post by cfh128 who said "stop dragging Bruce through the mud" and try and pin it on me when I never said anything like that. I do agree with cfh128, but I never said anything to you. So you go address cfh128 about undermining Bruce etc. Reading is fundamental.

    I never said anything about whether you hold it against him or not for signing with the whiners. I said I don't hold it against him. I also never said I had anything against Bennett, so I haven't condemned him. There you go assuming again. Go back and re-read it.

    So here is my advice. Read and then re-read posts and let them sink in. Learn the difference between an opinion and a fact. Know the facts before you post, and think about what you are going to say before you hit Submit Reply.

    Since you said you won't discuss this any longer I won't be expecting a reply.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    LoL. Dude, you are a joke. It all boils down to whether it was a good move for the franchise, to part ways with Bruce. Nothing you say can convince me otherwise. As for assuming things. First off, you called me out in the first place and basically said this entire time that I presented my argument as factual. Hmmm, that sounds like assuming to me. My advice to YOU is,Get a life and stop being so hypocritical. Don't complain because you "started" this little "debate" in the first place. I'm just trying to be the bigger man and end this because it's getting ridiculous.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by rams4life88 View Post
    LoL. Dude, you are a joke. It all boils down to whether it was a good move for the franchise, to part ways with Bruce. Nothing you say can convince me otherwise. As for assuming things. First off, you called me out in the first place and basically said this entire time that I presented my argument as factual. Hmmm, that sounds like assuming to me. My advice to YOU is,Get a life and stop being so hypocritical. Don't complain because you "started" this little "debate" in the first place. I'm just trying to be the bigger man and end this because it's getting ridiculous.
    You were the one yapping about what a great contract they offered Bruce and you didn't even know what they actually offered him. So who's the joke. Give it up. LOL

    Again you're lost because the whole discussion was about whether it was a good move or not. There are valid points for both. I don't care if I convince you, never did. I was simply saying there are valid points on both sides. You are so lost you can't even see both sides, even though cfh128 said it, r8rh8rmike said it, plus plenty of other people weeks ago when it first happened said it, and I've said it over and over to you.

    Who's complaining? I'm laughing because after all of your posts about what a great offer it was it turns out that you didn't know the facts. How funny is that. You aren't being the bigger man, you have insulted me all the way through this thread and only because at first I thought I may have been a little harsh because you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact did I let it go, I tried to say agree to disagree, I tried to help you with the difference between opinion and fact, and I tried to show you that there are two valid sides, but you don't care you only want one side to be right, and that's your side. Good luck with that. Now it turns out that after all of your yapping about what a great offer it was to Bruce and it was Bruce's fault not the Rams blah blah blah you didn't even know what they offered him, so know the facts before you post. I thought at the very least you knew what the Rams offered him. I guess I gave you too much credit.

    Didn't you say you were done talking about this? After not even knowing what the Rams offered him I would be.
    Last edited by ramsbruce; -03-29-2008 at 03:33 PM.

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    Re: Depth Chart

    Honestly, it's looking like it's a good move for both sides. Bruce is getting up there in NFL age, why learn a new system (or a hybrid) with only about two years left? Why not go to the source of the system you were comfortable playing in for the remaining few years in the NFL, makes some cash to stock away, and allow the team you left to go in a youthful direction?

    C'mon, let's throw loyalty out the window. There's just as much "non-loyalty" on the front office side as there is on the players side. This is a business. It's a sport in some context, but it's a business first and foremost.

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