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Thread: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

  1. #31
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    This is looking like a major issue with the NFL. With a crusade to protect players, Goodell is no doubt going to make an example of Williams, big time. It might be time for Fisher to look for a new DC I'm afraid.


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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by RamOG View Post
    I really think many teams probably do this, Saints were just in the unlucky position to get caught
    ...If true (which it likely is) all the more reason Goody Goodell and the NFL will come down like a hammer as PeoriaRam suggests. Players conducting themselves that way privately is one thing, but doing so "openly" with the knowledge and implied consent/approval of the coaches will not sit well. Anybody who thinks Williams as the main Defensive coach and a direct contributor to the bounty pot will be mainly unscathed should stop puffing and start passing
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    I am all for tough, hard-nosed, physical football. But only thugs purposely try to end a career, go to someone's head or intentonally maim someone. That's not what the game is all about. There IS a difference. And I feel sorry for anyone who can't see that.

    Williams' participation in such a "bounty" system is a black eye for both the sport and for Williams himself. It will be interesting to see how this is handled, although I think the worst of it would come down on Sean Payton. He's the head coach and is ultimately responsible for those coaches under his watch.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by KoaKoi View Post
    ...If true (which it likely is) all the more reason Goody Goodell and the NFL will come down like a hammer as PeoriaRam suggests.
    Spot on point. This is extremely embarrassing for the NFL, hurts the integrity of the game, and the fact that it's probably assumed other teams do it only makes things worse for Williams. The hammer is no doubt coming and it's gonna be a sledge.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Crap.....the pony hasn't even gotten to the gate and it's already **** itself!

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Some big news from Darren Sharper (Former Saints FS during the SB run) :

    "
    Former
    New Orleans Saints
    safety Darren Sharper flatly denied the findings of the NFL's investigation that
    the team instituted a “bounty” program
    between 2009-2011, telling NFL.com on Friday that players never intentionally tried to injure opponents."I think this is something that, from when I got in the league in 1997, has happened thousands and thousands of times over," Sharper said about payments among players for big plays. "It's ridiculous that someone is trying to say that we made bounties on knocking guys out, when basically all it was is that when a guy gets an interception, then he might get paid. That's something that guys do amongst themselves."

    Sharper painted a picture of how players regularly set up payments among themselves, amounting to sums such as $100, for big plays such as interceptions, sacks and turnovers, a custom he said is engrained in the culture of the NFL.
    "I know the Commissioner is trying to take (out) all the performance-based pay, but that's something you're not going to prevent," Sharper said. "That's something that's just part of guys being guys and playing football."
    Sharper didn't deny that Williams or the coaching staff was involved, saying players and the coaching staff were a part of conversations about creating incentives for making big plays in games, because it contributes to winning.
    But Sharper said the payments were limited to big plays, and said there was never pre-meditated intent to injure opposing players.
    "No, positively no," he said. "With an exclamation point. It's about making big plays in games."
    Sharper, who joined the team in 2009 and played two seasons under Williams, said it wouldn't have been possible for such a "bounty" system to exist without his knowledge. When asked specifically about a Sports Illustrated report that the NFL's findings included the allegation that linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered defensive teammates $10,000 to knock then-Vikings quarterback Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game, Sharper said he wasn't aware of such an incident.
    "Somebody would take that money and run out of the room," Sharper said. "I don't know about $10,000 being (offered). ... Nobody was throwing money down. That's ridiculous."
    What bothers Sharper the most about the report, though, is the idea the allegations started from somewhere within the organization.
    "I'm actually appalled, because of the fact that someone within the organization that was part of my time there, the (year) when we were making our Super Bowl run, is basically trying to bring down that era," Sharper said."

    Interesting to say the least. The fact that people didn't think this type of stuff happened is laughable. He clearly said there was no intent to injure, just payments on the occasional big play. Which is basically what incentives are anyways no? The NFL contradicting themselves at its finest, huh?

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    This is a part of the culture of football, and this has been going on for a VERY LONG TIME. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Interesting comments from Sharper, but if what he says is true, why didn't Williams refute the "kill shots" allegations in his mea culpa? Then there's the reports from former Redskins players who said he did the same thing in Washington, including bigger compensation for knocking opponents out of the game? The whole situation still worries me.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Interesting comments from Sharper, but if what he says is true, why didn't Williams refute the "kill shots" allegations in his mea culpa? Then there's the reports from former Redskins players who said he did the same thing in Washington, including bigger compensation for knocking opponents out of the game? The whole situation still worries me.
    I don't really think its Williams' place to say anything but sorry. He broke the rules, and he has to man up to it. You could very well be right because I was wondering the exact same thing.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    I don't really think its Williams' place to say anything but sorry. He broke the rules, and he has to man up to it. You could very well be right because I was wondering the exact same thing.
    You make a good point about Williams saying as little as possible for now. Here's an article from the Washington Post that outlines what allegedly happened while Williams was with the Redskins:

    Washington Redskins, New Orleans Saints had bounty systems that paid for big hits

    By Mark Maske
    3/2/12

    The Washington Redskins had a bounty system for big hits on opponents under former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams that was similar to the one revealed by an NFL investigation of the New Orleans Saints, four players who played under Williams said Friday.

    Three of the players described a coach who doled out thousands of dollars to Redskins defenders who measured up to Williams’s scoring system for rugged play, including “kill shots” that knocked opposing teams’stars out of a game.

    “You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits,” said one former player, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    Of the four players interviewed, only Philip Daniels, a former defensive lineman, was willing to be quoted on the record. He defended Williams’s coaching. Daniels now serves as the team’s director of player development.

    Players said compensation ranged from “hundreds to thousands of dollars,” with the biggest sum any player received believed to be about $8,000.

    “I never took it for anything [but] just incentive to make good, hard plays,” said a current player, who requested anonymity. “But I’m pretty sure it did entice some guys to do more to a player than normal when it came to taking them out. I mean, that’s cash. Let’s just be honest about it.

    “If you took the star player out, he’d hook you up a little bit.”

    The Redskins declined to comment through team spokesman Tony Wyllie.

    Daniels said he believed Williams began the program with money from fines collected from players for being late for meetings or practices. “Rather than pocket that money or whatever, he would re-distribute it to players who had good games or good practices.”

    He said the most he ever received was $1,500 for a four-sack game against the Dallas Cowboys in 2005.

    “I think it is wrong the way they’re trying to paint [Williams],” Daniels added. “He never told us to go out there and break a guy’s neck or break a guy’s leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football.”

    He acknowledged Williams’s system for awarding players’ cash featured more money for what Williams’ deemed “physical play.” “Sean Taylor made a lot,” he said of the hard-hitting safety who was killed in his Miami home in 2007.

    The other three players interviewed portrayed Williams as a “coach who just took it a little too far,” in the words of one.

    “He actually had a saying, ‘If you cut the snake’s head off, the body will die,’ that was his motto,” said the player. “It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team..

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    Interesting comments from Sharper, but if what he says is true, why didn't Williams refute the "kill shots" allegations in his mea culpa? Then there's the reports from former Redskins players who said he did the same thing in Washington, including bigger compensation for knocking opponents out of the game? The whole situation still worries me.
    There's also the likely issue of Sharper being one of the rewardees. He might be trying to put some pre-emptive spin to minimize his own guilt, especially now that he's out of the league. There's too much conflict of interest here to take Sharper's words at face value.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofGod View Post
    This is a part of the culture of football, and this has been going on for a VERY LONG TIME. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
    Players being reduced to gibberish-uttering husks before dying well before they are supposed to has also been a part of the culture of football. Except its starting to dawn on people that maybe that part of the culture shouldn't exist; the same goes for the things that cause it.

  13. #43
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiaRam View Post
    You trying to tell me defensive players dont try and knock a key piece of the opposing team out of the game to improve their odds of winning? Nothing knew here...
    Its no wonder Williams loves the blitz. This has probably been going on all over the NFL for years now, but unfortunately for Williams, he has just happened to get caught red handed.? I just hope this news doesnt effect the Rams in any serious way. I love the idea of inflicting damage on opponents, but it has to be done in a sporting manner. Looking to injure people is one thing, but to use money as a motivational tool, it doesn't say an awful lot about a persons character.
    The Rams seem to be going from one extreme to another in their makeover. I dont think character is in their vocabulary, which is taking a little getting used too.
    Its making me a little nervous to be honest. !

    Williams motto "If you cut the snakes head off, the body will die." Sounds like a real nice guy.
    Last edited by GROUND DOG 39; -03-03-2012 at 07:57 AM.
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by GROUND DOG 39 View Post
    Its no wonder Williams loves the blitz. This has probably been going on all over the NFL for years now, but unfortunately for Williams, he has just happened to get caught red handed.? I just hope this news doesnt effect the Rams in any serious way. I love the idea of inflicting damage on opponents, but it has to be done in a sporting manner. Looking to injure people is one thing, but to use money as a motivational tool, it doesn't say an awful lot about a persons character.
    The Rams seem to be going from one extreme to another in their makeover. I dont think character is in their vocabulary, which is taking a little getting used too.
    Its making me a little nervous to be honest. !

    Williams motto "If you cut the snakes head off, the body will die." Sounds like a real nice guy.
    Interesting comments, GROUND DOG. First off, the league can do nothing to the Rams since they weren't involved in any wrongdoing. They can certainly do something to Williams, but I don't forsee it being anything other than a disruption (heavy fine or 1-2 game suspension at most). The worst damage is being done to Williams' reputation, who now has been exposed as one who condoned and contributed to questionable hitting practices. He's a good defensive coach, no question, but now it comes with an asterisk of sorts.

    And I wholeheartedly agree with your concern about the direction the Rams are going in their make-over. Fisher is a guy who throughout his career appears more tolerant of some of the borderline characters we've tried to weed out over the years. New DB coach Chuck Cecil's reputation as a headhunter while he was a player precedes him. People have talked about the possibility (realistic or not) about trying to lure Cortlandt Finnegan to the team. And now this stuff with Williams. I will not be a hypocrite, because I endorsed both the Fisher and Williams hire and liked Cecil as a player. But I'd be lying if I were to tell you I'm not more than a little concerned about the Rams selling their souls to achieve success. People knocked Spags "Four Pillars" approach because he was unsuccessful. But his mantra is absolutely correct- the key is finding guys who are good people AND have good talent.

    Thousands of sports teams throughout the country can win with class and do it the right way. I just hope we're one of them.
    Last edited by NJ Ramsfan1; -03-03-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Perfectly said NJ. I feel exactly the same. It's unfortunate but you can kind of put the pieces to the puzzle together...

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