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Thread: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    [QUOTE=sosa39rams;418424]Hines Ward
    Quite simply the epitome of the cheap shot. Hines Ward will take out any defender, as long as the guy can't see it coming. Frequent blindside blocks that have led to penalties, fines and injuries, and Hines Ward feels no remorse. His excuse is that defenders bring the heat when he goes over the middle. But Hines, the difference is that you know its coming. Drilling a guy through his earhole when the ball is on the other side of the field is a little different. Just like Rodney Harrison, a great player who just doesn't know when to tone it down a little, he's usually at or near the top of the Dirtiest Player poll.
    ]QUOTE]


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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by RealRam View Post
    Hines Ward
    Quite simply the epitome of the cheap shot. Hines Ward will take out any defender, as long as the guy can't see it coming. Frequent blindside blocks that have led to penalties, fines and injuries, and Hines Ward feels no remorse. His excuse is that defenders bring the heat when he goes over the middle. But Hines, the difference is that you know its coming. Drilling a guy through his earhole when the ball is on the other side of the field is a little different. Just like Rodney Harrison, a great player who just doesn't know when to tone it down a little, he's usually at or near the top of the Dirtiest Player poll.
    I see nothing wrong for ear-holeing somebody. It used to be one of my favorite things to do in my football days... one of the first things coaches teach you is always keep your 'head on a swivel' which makes sense and if you don't it's your a**. Your fault not anybody's else's...

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiaRam View Post
    I see nothing wrong for ear-holeing somebody. It used to be one of my favorite things to do in my football days... one of the first things coaches teach you is always keep your 'head on a swivel' which makes sense and if you don't it's your a**. Your fault not anybody's else's...
    *Cites litany of very recent medical scholarship that points out long term health consequences of both weaponizing one's head and hitting others' heads.*

    "It worked in the past" isn't valid anymore.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by richtree View Post
    Williams apologized which is a good thing. Secondly, is there evidence of any player doing something dirty to meet these bounty(s)..?

    Williams is def in the wrong, but only the 'player" can carry out the action....also, Sean Payton didn't know about this ?

    This seems to be a mess, but I don't think we should immediately fire him -- I agree that this is a "Saints" thing...and if all this happened before the Rams hired him, he would be looking for a new job and probably would get one....just not as much money....


    Tough without details......but so far not "fire" worthy
    Did any of this come up in his interview? If he said jack diddly about a pending NFL investigation or bounty system, there's your grounds for instant termination.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiaRam View Post
    Ummm your telling me that all the teams we played last year they don't have something like this? This is common place in the NFL and as you remember Bradford did take some cheap shots last year...Nothing new here
    There's a difference between the occasional cheap shot and teams rushing to avenge a fallen offensive player the second he's carted off because they think a hit may have been called in. Bradford takes a lot more shots in the latter.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoriaRam View Post
    *Cites litany of very recent medical scholarship that points out long term health consequences of both weaponizing one's head and hitting others' heads.*

    "It worked in the past" isn't valid anymore.
    Really you think taking hits to the head could be damaging long term? I could of told you that long before Mr. Self-Rightous Goddell made a huge deal about this like no-one knew it had a impact on someones health. That's like saying " Hey Muhamed Ali couldn't have got like that from many hits to the head"

    I have a wrecked body from both playing football and being in the service, I can't imagine someone playing NFl level for years on end...

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    by Bucky Brooks

    The news of the New Orleans Saints operating a "bounty" program from 2009 to 2011 under defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has created quite a stir since the news broke Friday, but I will let you in on a dirty little secret: The practice is commonplace throughout the league.

    While the salacious details of the "pay for performance" program certainly will draw the ire of Commissioner Roger Goodell, the act of players providing cash bonuses to their teammates for impact plays has been a part of the league's subculture for years.

    From my rookie season in 1994 to my final year as a scout in 2007, I was associated with several teams that incorporated various forms of the "bounty" program cited in New Orleans. Most of those bonuses were tied to sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles and return touchdowns, but big hits and knockout shots were also included in the payouts. The financial incentives were established by players prior to the season, typically within a position group, and the payouts ranged from a few hundred dollars to $1,500 at the max.

    The money used to make the payments came from fines for various mental errors on the practice field or in games, and the group would designate which players were worthy of receiving the gifts. The intent of the program was to promote accountability for players for their play on the field, while also adding a competitive element to the group.

    As silly as it sounds to those on the outside, the thought of collecting a few hundred bucks from your teammates for a big play provides a bit of motivation for a player already cashing huge checks for his performance. Players have been known to shout "cha-ching" (mimicking the sound of a cash register) on the field following turnovers, and the byproduct of utilizing such a "kitty" program is better camaraderie among the group.

    In addressing the damning allegations of placing bounties on opposing players, I would like to believe the Saints instituted policies that rewarded defenders for hard but clean shots that separated ball carriers from the ball. These "knockout" shots, as we called them, were not inflicted with the intent to injure, but rather to establish a physical tone that created hesitation and fear in the minds of offensive players venturing across the middle of the field.

    Offensive players might scoff at the notion of intimidation impacting the game, but there is something to putting teeth-rattling collisions on tape that alters the way future opponents play the game. If you don't believe me, look at the way receivers short arm balls with defenders in close proximity, or how quarterbacks flinch with rushers bearing down on them. Simply put, big hits matter in this game, and defensive coaches and players overemphasize the importance of physicality.

    To illustrate that point, I will point to an example from my time with the Kansas City Chiefs during which we routinely would reward players with framed pictures of their big hits in team meetings. This certainly didn't promote dirty play or encourage defenders to play beyond the whistle, but receiving recognition for a bone-jarring hit definitely was motivating.

    The New Orleans Saints won Super Bowl XLIV behind a hard-nosed, aggressive defense that specialized in creating takeaways and pummeling opponents, and Williams' "pay for performance" system is a time-honored tradition in locker rooms across the league.

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Sorry if it's already been brought up but,

    Anyone think Williams was doing this while DC of the Titans? Since he did it while with the Bills, Skins and Saints. Just got me thinking since Fisher is now our HC and he was Titans HC back then. I guess we'll find out more as more of the story unfolds.

    Edit: Nevermind, read somewhere that they did have a bounty program that the coaches knew about but not one for injuring player. Whether thats true on the injury part we dont know yet i guess.
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -03-05-2012 at 10:45 AM.


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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    " Investigation reviewed 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages" All from one team? Or all 32 teams?

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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Report: Tennessee Titans players ran incentive program for big hits during Lions' coach Jim Schwartz time









    Then-Tennessee Titans defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz is shown during an NFL football game in Nashville, Tenn., Dec. 23, 2007. / AP Photo/Mark Humphrey

    By Dave Birkett

    Free Press Sports Writer









    Tennessee Titans players ran a player-organized incentive pool that coaches were aware of but didn’t contribute to when Lions coach Jim Schwartz was the team’s defensive coordinator, former players told the Tennessean.
    The newspaper reported that Schwartz “handed out baseball bats or boxing gloves for big hits” while players raised the stakes with monetary rewards.
    “Guys would throw out there, ‘Hey, knock this guy out and it’s worth $1,000,’” safety Lance Schulters, who played for Tennessee from 2002-04, told the paper. “Let’s say when we played the Steelers, and Hines Ward was always trying to knock guys out. So if you knocked (him) out, there might be something in the pot, $100 or whatever, for a big hit on Hines -- a legal, big hit.”
    Schwartz is not accused of contributing to or administering a bounty program like the one that has former Titans and current St. Louis Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams in trouble with the NFL. Schwartz worked as a defensive assistant for two seasons under Williams in Tennessee.
    Former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy, now with NBC, also told ProFootballTalk.com he believes the Titans had a bounty of quarterback Peyton Manning but did not offer any specifics.
    Dungy, who coached the Colts from 2002-08 during Schwartz’s tenure as Titans defensive coordinator, did not return a phone call from the Free Press on Saturday. The Lions also declined comment about Dungy’s accusations on Saturday and did not return a phone call this morning.
    Lions safety Chris Harris, while declining to provide details, told the Free Press that player-run pay-for-performance programs are common in the NFL.
    “It goes on all around the league. I think it does,” he said. “I don’t know if every team does it, but I think it’s more common than most (believe).”
    Harris said Lions players did not offer bounties last year, and defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh, speaking before a NASCAR race in Arizona via the Charlotte Observer, said Lions coaches and players "wouldn't allow that" to happen.
    Former Lions safety Ron Rice said he saw player-run incentive programs during his tenure with the team from 1995-2001.
    “You go out and say, ‘If you get an interception in this game,’ or, ‘I got $100 that I’ll get the interception,’” Rice said. “Or if you got a kick returner, he’ll pay the whole return team for every touchdown that he scores. Things like that. But that’s all internal things amongst players. Coaches were never involved in it.”
    Rice said offering bounties to injure players is more isolated and was never a part of the programs he saw.
    “We would never put a bounty on a guy’s head to injure a guy or take a guy off the field on a stretcher or anything like that,” Rice said. “It was more so money on an interception, money on a big play, making a stop or something like that. But for a team to go out and intentionally focus on hurting a player is totally unacceptable because again, it goes beyond a game. This is your job and this is your career and a lot of people, it’s your livelihood and this is how people earn their living, so it’s unacceptable.”
    Harris said most players are aware that player-run incentive pools violate league rules about the salary cap because "the NFL posts a memo on it every year." But he said they've been ingrained in the NFL culture so long even recent reports might not be enough to stop them.
    "I don't know," Harris said. "How can you catch them?"
    Williams could face a fine and lengthy suspension after an NFL investigation showed he administered and contributed to a bounty program with the New Orleans Saints from 2009-11. The team also could lose draft picks.
    An NFL spokesperson declined comment about the Titans allegations.


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    Re: *DEVELOPING STORY* - NFL Finds Saints, Gregg Williams Used "Bounty" Program

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    " Investigation reviewed 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages" All from one team? Or all 32 teams?
    That would be the New Orleans Saints portion of the now-completed investigation.

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