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  1. #16
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    They weren't THAT much worse bison....you can't be much worse than last year. However, is it a coincidence that prior to Mike Martz joining the Rams, this club was the worst NFC team in the 90's. Then, with Martz here, this squad goes to the playoffs 5 out of 7 years.

    Hmmmm......
    Hey I'm with you on the Martz thing. I'm just saying the 2006 D was no where near as bad as the 2000 D. The 2006 D sucked, but that 2000 D was a full TD per game worse than last year's effort. For that matter, the 2004 and 2005 D's were worse than the 2006 D.

    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

  2. #17
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    raiderhater.....he did not inherit anything he didn't have a big hand in constructing.

    1. Bruce was ready to bolt out the door after 1998. He did not like playing for DV. Martz was Bruce's WR coach the last year the Rams were in LA.

    2. After the 2000 season in which the defense was almost as bad as last years Rams, he blew it up and reconstructed a defense that assisted the Rams in going to the Super Bowl. You don't think that was a major HC accomplishment? If not, then I won't waste my typing minutes anymore.
    How can I say this.... No, I do not. He was horrible at game-time decisions, as I said in my post. Read it. Read it again. Mike Martz can x and o with the best of them, as proof of his Offensive schemes. However, get him into a big game, real-time decision that required quick thinking, and he failed miserably. Of course Bruce wanted to play for Martz, Mike promised he'd get more throws. Every reciever wants to hear that. When Mike was let go, I didn't hear any of them crying to keep him in St Louis. Not even Bruce. The only smart defensive move Martz made, was hiring Lovie.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  3. #18
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Well, actually alot of players were disappointed but what are you going to do? Martz had a team that went 14-2. 14-2. You don't think he coached that team?

    Ok, that's your opinion and you are definately entitled to it. I just hope that once emotions are somewhat downplayed and Rams fans look back on the Martz era that they do see Mike Martz was a great coach for this organization.

  4. #19
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    Well, actually alot of players were disappointed but what are you going to do? Martz had a team that went 14-2. 14-2. You don't think he coached that team?

    Ok, that's your opinion and you are definately entitled to it. I just hope that once emotions are somewhat downplayed and Rams fans look back on the Martz era that they do see Mike Martz was a great coach for this organization.
    I agree Martz had a great run with Dick Vermeils team. The biggest thing missing was motivation. DV was a much better motivator than MM.

    The games are won on the field......Leadership and motivation are huge.

    :r :l

  5. #20
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    OMG....there was going to be a major uprising in 1999 if things didn't change. Players were ready to hang Vermeil by his shorts at Rams Park.

    He had relatively the same talent in KC and didn't win with all that "motivation".

  6. #21
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I agree Martz had a great run with Dick Vermeils team. The biggest thing missing was motivation. DV was a much better motivator than MM.

    The games are won on the field......Leadership and motivation are huge.

    :r :l
    Wow I have to disagree with the "Dick V team", yes he was the coach but Martz was the one who wanted Faulk, he also said let's go with Warner when Dick V wanted Jeff Hostetler. On top of all that the whole team wasn't very happy with the way Dick was running things at the time (he wasn't motivating very well) and at the top of that list was Isaac Bruce who was furious. So a real Dick V team would consist of Jeff Hostetler at QB, no Faulk, maybe no Bruce, and a team in turmoil that probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

    I'm not taking away from what Dick V did, but let's face it without Martz and his influence/suggestions to use Warner, trade for Faulk, and keeping Bruce happy our team would have looked like 98 all over again.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Second half adjustments. Make some!

  7. #22
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    :r

    Mike Martz.

    Coach Martz, in all his madness, made the tools work, he was the essential catalyst that produced those powerful plays that in turned generated an awesome amount of yards and points. Granted he had terrific tools ... but he knew how to utilize that potential with great success.

    This is akin to having an awesome sports car in the garage with big muscle numbers and all the right racing components ... but not knowing how to drive or, better said, control it successfully.

    Yes, I've always admitted I'm a Martzinite yet I've always recognized his mistakes too. In terms of answering this thread's main question however, to me, it was mainly Mike's maddening marvel that got us to those SBs.

  8. #23
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    OMG....there was going to be a major uprising in 1999 if things didn't change. Players were ready to hang Vermeil by his shorts at Rams Park.

    He had relatively the same talent in KC and didn't win with all that "motivation".
    Of course txramsfan, I respect your opinions, as I do all ClanRam members, but we can agree to disagree on this one.

    Relatively the same talent? You're kiddin', right? The Chief's were hardly the same offensive team the Rams were in their greatest days. They (KC) attempted to build the same kind of team, but obviously fell way short. Without Bruce, Holt, Az-Hakim, Warner, Faulk, AND Martz's playbook, they were NOT the '99-'02 Rams. The uprising you speak of was caused mainly because of the way DV ran his camp, if I remember correctly. The players didn't like it because it was "too tough", and Martz ran a much easier camp, so of course they welcomed his approach. Again, players tend to back a coach that caters to the needs and wants of the spoiled athletes of today.

    Their "motivation", I believe, and this is just my opinion of course, was a result of the Martz offensive system and it's immediate success. Heck, it was a fun system to play in! Everyone knows that when people are having fun doing something, it creates a passion for it, and passion is what motivates people. Great speeches and the rah-rah stuff don't motivate people, passion for something motivates people. Listen, I've never said DV was a great coach either. He was a better HC than MM, but only because he didn't make the bone-head game-time mistakes that MM continued to make.

    However, the players loved playing the MM offense. (or should I say, Air Coryell revisited) MM's offense, just like Air Coyell's, was great because it had the right players to make it work. Bruce, Holt, Az-Hakim, Faulk, Warner vs. Jefferson, Chandler, Joiner, Winslow and Fouts. Same offense's, really. Lot's of motion, spread the field and give yourself plenty of options. But like a great recipe for any exotic dish, it needs the right ingredients to make it work. (see Detroit Lions or KC Chiefs as examples that didn't work) Martz understands how to create miss-matches with his offensive scheme, and finds (or creates) the players to make it work. But he has never proven himself to be a good HC. NO ONE not wearing blue and gold colored glasses has ever mentioned Martz in a sentence with the words "good" and "head coach". For good reason.

    I will give MM all the credit in the world for his playbook though. He built a great one. But I believe a good HC is a man that can make the good, game-time decisions, and Martz proved time and time again that he could not. Perhaps some day, he'll get over the "deer-in-the-headlight" game-time responses and make calm, cool, and correct game-time decisions AND...learn how to adapt a game plan and adjust to what the opposition is doing and put aside his tremendous ego for the good of the team. Maybe then I'll give him his due as a head coach. But until then, I just refuse to drink the MM koolaid.
    Last edited by RAMFANRAIDERHATER; -04-03-2007 at 04:25 PM.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  9. #24
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce View Post
    Wow I have to disagree with the "Dick V team", yes he was the coach but Martz was the one who wanted Faulk, he also said let's go with Warner when Dick V wanted Jeff Hostetler. On top of all that the whole team wasn't very happy with the way Dick was running things at the time (he wasn't motivating very well) and at the top of that list was Isaac Bruce who was furious. So a real Dick V team would consist of Jeff Hostetler at QB, no Faulk, maybe no Bruce, and a team in turmoil that probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

    I'm not taking away from what Dick V did, but let's face it without Martz and his influence/suggestions to use Warner, trade for Faulk, and keeping Bruce happy our team would have looked like 98 all over again.
    I knew my post about Dickie V's team would get a rise out of a few of you.
    Nice job, jumping all over that. It was still DV's team.

  10. #25
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan View Post
    OMG....there was going to be a major uprising in 1999 if things didn't change. Players were ready to hang Vermeil by his shorts at Rams Park.
    Yeah, because he was working them to hard.:x

  11. #26
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Maybe he was la, have you seen Vermeil's record as a Rams HC before Martz? Not pretty.

    It wasn't Vermeil's team. If it was, he wouldn't have "retired" with all that talent.

  12. #27
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Quote Originally Posted by laram0 View Post
    I knew my post about Dickie V's team would get a rise out of a few of you.
    Nice job, jumping all over that. It was still DV's team.
    So you knew posting something controversial would get people to post. Who woulda thunk it.

    It was a lot more Martz's team than you want to give him credit for, whether you believe it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Second half adjustments. Make some!

  13. #28
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Martz made a huge impact, but it was most definitely Vermeil's team. He ran the show, assembled and directed the staff, pulled the strings on Sundays and was ultimately responsible for putting the whole package together and making it work. Everywhere the man has coached, he's made his teams successful. In no way, shape or form has Dick Vermeil ever been a "figure head" coach running things in the background on auto-pilot. He's a take charge, hands-on guy all the way.

  14. #29
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    Mike Martz was one of the reasons we lost Superbowl 36 to the patriots.

  15. #30
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    Re: Did Martz take the Rams to the superbowl or did the Rams take Martz?

    no mike wasn't. did you not see those crappy calls by the refs??

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