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  1. #16
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Defense View Post
    Everyone seems to overlook his point. Lovie has such a unique system of defense that he impliments. The whole point of the defense that he implimented here was to have a fast fast defense that could get 3 and outs, fumbles, or interceptions. That way the defense could give the ball back to the high powered offense that we had. Do you guys remember that season when we had 42+ turnovers on defense and we led the league? That was under Lovie. All those players where playing for him then. The problem is that once he left we were left with a group of players that were made soley for the purpose of getting the ball back to the offense. Now they don't have the mastermind behind the defense and they bring in someone else who implimented a new defense. It was like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it just didn't work.
    Or you could look at the draft picks, the players that were picked and the rounds they were picked in and realise that they never achieved their potential. Players like Arch and Tommy Polley had one good year, while Pickett only improved after Lovie had left, and Lewis never played well for us. The point is the coaching was poor. You can say they picked the wrong players in the draft. Or you can say the coaches never got the best out of them. Pick your poison, but Lovie wasnt all he was cracked up to be. The reason the Chicago defense is currently playing well is not really because of Lovie, but because of the players he already had on that defense. Either way, that was three years of drafting on defense and all we got is one linebacker out of it.


  2. #17
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    tomahawk is correct, lovie did the same thing john gruden did, he inherited a team with a great defense but a horrible offense, he made the offense a little bit better and now he is headed to the super bowl just like gruden did, as much respect as i have for lovie i believe he is getting to much credit, any one with a mind for football could have took the bears to the superbowl with the players they have and on top of that they are in the weak NFC, all lovie did was throw a little bit of offense in and he couldnt go wrong, that is why i never gave gruden credit, i mean the bucs had one of the all time great defenses a few years back and gruden just threw in some offense and off they went to the big game

  3. #18
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Its fine if you dont want to give gruden credit when they win, as long as you are consistent and dont blame him when they lose. I am the big proponent of the theory that talent, rather than coaching, is the critical component in winning and losing games. However, there are exceptions especially at the margain. Note schottenheimer losing year after year.

    ramming speed to all

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  4. #19
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtterBlitz View Post
    gc ....let's not reference those two games as key games for Lovie. He was already half way out the door and thinking about a new team, interviewing, and a new Head Coach position. I don't think he was focused for those two games and it cost us. He put Jason Sehorn in for the Carolina game and that decision alone probably cost us the game.
    Did you have to bring up that name again? JASON SEHORN:x :x :x

    I'd like to strangle that guy!

  5. #20
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    you are correct GC but the reason i wont give gruden credit is because all he has did snce he has been there is trade stars one after another so he can make an offense which till this day he still hasnt done, he took dungys team the the superbowl and since then its been all downhill

  6. #21
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will51 View Post
    you are correct GC but the reason i wont give gruden credit is because all he has did snce he has been there is trade stars one after another so he can make an offense which till this day he still hasnt done, he took dungys team the the superbowl and since then its been all downhill
    Poor Chucky....

  7. #22
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will51 View Post
    tomahawk is correct, lovie did the same thing john gruden did, he inherited a team with a great defense but a horrible offense, he made the offense a little bit better and now he is headed to the super bowl just like gruden did, as much respect as i have for lovie i believe he is getting to much credit, any one with a mind for football could have took the bears to the superbowl with the players they have and on top of that they are in the weak NFC, all lovie did was throw a little bit of offense in and he couldnt go wrong, that is why i never gave gruden credit, i mean the bucs had one of the all time great defenses a few years back and gruden just threw in some offense and off they went to the big game
    ...kinda like when Mike Martz inherited the Rams? :O
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  8. #23
    general counsel's Avatar
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    raider hater makes a solid point. martz inherited a TON of talent, but he also designed the offense that made the rams a champion and was largely responsible for warners emergence as well. He deserves credit for that, he was part of building the offense.

    As for the defense, what he inherited wasnt very good especially when kevin carter dropped way off in the 2000 season. Martz helped rebuild the defense for the 2001 superbowl run.

    ramming speed to all

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  9. #24
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMFANRAIDERHATER View Post
    ...kinda like when Mike Martz inherited the Rams? :O
    Absolutley agree!!! The team Martz took to the Superbowl was a leftover from Vermeil's SB Champion team and he destroyed it in just a few short years.:x

  10. #25
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    i dont think anyone was saying Martz hadnt inherited the vast talent he did with the Rams, and i think every Rams fan knows Martz isnt a great coach. Im just saying Lovie hasnt really shown himself to be better.

  11. #26
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk247 View Post
    i dont think anyone was saying Martz hadnt inherited the vast talent he did with the Rams, and i think every Rams fan knows Martz isnt a great coach. Im just saying Lovie hasnt really shown himself to be better.
    Although I've stated my position on Martz the past year in these threads, and his ability to be a HEAD COACH, I agree with what you're saying tomahawk. There are similarities between the Martz and Lovie situations.

    Mad Mike inherited a great offensive group with which to work with, and an average defense. Lovie, the same at Chicago, but with a great core group of D players and no offense. Martz "made do" with a so-so defense and managed to return the Rams to one Superbowl on the strength of a great offense. Now Lovie is staring at the same scenario, only Lovie's team isn't the heavy favorite that Mike's team was. That being said, if Lovie loses, I don't think he'll get the flak that Mike did because he's not expected to win. In fact, I was just reading the "top 80 Superbowl teams" list on one of the sports websites, and the Rams of SBXXXVI are rated higher than the team that beat them because, "the Rams had the best team, Martz simply blew it".

    Neither has proven the ability to be a top-tier head coach, yet. And in all fairness to both, it's not something that can be accomplished in a few years of coaching. Heck, Atlanta's coach Mora was going to be the next great HC according to a few experts only a few years ago, now he's out of a job. Lovie hasn't proven he's an elite head coach yet, and like Martz, he can do a lot to bolster, or destroy the perception people have of him by what he does on feb 4th.
    Faithful Rams fan since 1968

  12. #27
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    Re: Did the Rams Make a Mistake?

    Getting back to the original question, no, I don't believe the Rams made a mistake in hiring Mike Martz as HC. On the contrary, IMO, that was one of the best moves, a truly positive and historic hiring.

    While I agree in the obvious, that Mad Martz is not "one of the greatest", I seriously doubt that we would have had our immortal GSOT explosive offense -- one of THE greatest of all time. Nor would we have had the Super Bowl XXXVI run for that matter.

    I also agree with what RFRH just mentioned above, it takes time to get to that level of success, i.e., a few years. Much of the demise that Coach Martz suffered was a direct result of Warner's own faltering, his injured hand, etc. (and I am a Warnerite). The defense obviously did not help either. Who knows? Maybe he would have acquired a better D afterwards.

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