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  1. #1
    Nick's Avatar
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    Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Notebook: Rams drop scouts but say shakeup isn't likely
    By Bill Coats
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    Thursday, May. 18 2006

    Rams officials insist the decision not to renew the contracts of two veteran
    scouts is not an indication that a front-office shakeup is imminent. In fact,
    it's possible that no administrative changes will be made.

    Coach Scott Linehan said recently that was a possibility, and another Rams
    official, who requested anonymity, called that assessment "absolutely right."
    He confirmed the team might stand pat and, though it has interviewed several
    current or former executives from other teams, choose not to hire a pro
    personnel director.

    Near the end of his tenure with the Rams, former coach Mike Martz became more
    vocal in his view that filling such a position, which has remained open since
    Mike Ackerley left at the end of the 2000 season, was vital. Only four of the
    32 NFL teams function without a director of pro personnel.

    The structure of the front office has been a topic of several discussions at
    Rams Park since Linehan was hired in January as Martz's successor. But no
    conclusions have been reached, and as time passes, the likelihood of
    substantive changes appears less and less likely.

    College scouts Tom Marino and Dave Razzano, who have a combined 47 years of NFL
    experience, including 20 with the Rams, were let go because "we just wanted to
    make some changes and ... go in a different direction," general manager Charley
    Armey said. "They're both good scouts, and they did a great job for us. We just
    want to add some different people."

    Neither scout was pleased about the way his tenure with the team ended. Marino,
    who has been an NFL scout for 29 years, including the last six with the Rams,
    said he was given little explanation for his ouster. "I don't understand it,"
    he said. "I've been doing this for a long time, so I have must have done
    something right over the years. Looking back, I'm not ashamed of anything, and
    I'm not going to hang my head. I'll just move on to the next place."

    Razzano, who has spent 14 of his 18 years in the NFL with the Rams, said he
    didn't receive a detailed explanation, either. "When Charley called, honestly,
    I thought I was going to get a promotion. He just said, 'We're not going to
    renew you,' " Razzano said. "I was a little shocked, but I'll move on. I have a
    lot of good memories, and I made a lot of good friends" with the Rams. Their
    replacements have yet to be named, Armey said.


    Maybe someone with better archiving skills than I can find the supporting data, but it seems to me like there have been a lot of departures from the Rams this season that have been on murky if not just bad terms. These two scouts, and I thought Tyoka's departure (maybe Furrey as well) was kind of strange in terms of how he left. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I'd love it if someone else can find the articles that reference other awkward departures.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Amazing to see how the "BIG corporate systems" and styles have influenced pro sports!

    Nick, it certainly does seem that way, as you mentioned (recent terminations), although I don't have a reference for that right now.

  3. #3
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    The Tyoka Jackson reference was at the bottom of an "Inside Slant":
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramwraith
    —It appears defensive lineman Tyoka Jackson, the Rams' defensive captain the last three seasons, will not be re-signed. Jackson became an unrestricted free agent in March.

    Jackson learned he probably wasn't in the team's plans when the contents of his locker were boxed up and sent to his home.
    Of course, we also have "Rams Notebook: Jackson leaves team with no hard feelings", which said that Tyoka left very amicably. To paraphrase, he and his wife happened to arrive wearing a Lions hat at the same restaurant where Linehan, Haslett, and Defensive Line Coach Brian Baker were talking with veteren DL Jason Fisk. Jackson waved. Before leaving the Linehan party came over and shook hands with Tyoka, and Tyoka wished them well.

    Hearing this about the scouts makes me a little more concerned that the former reference might be more accurate than the latter. I don't recall anything unusual with Furrey. In any case, canning a guy who has been with the organization for 14 years without warning or explanation doesn't sit well with me. I'm not going to take issue with the moves themselves (who am I to judge whether they were good scouts or whether their replacements might be better), but how you do things is just as important what you decide to do.

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    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenfleece
    Of course, we also have "Rams Notebook: Jackson leaves team with no hard feelings", which said that Tyoka left very amicably. To paraphrase, he and his wife happened to arrive wearing a Lions hat at the same restaurant where Linehan, Haslett, and Defensive Line Coach Brian Baker were talking with veteren DL Jason Fisk. Jackson waved. Before leaving the Linehan party came over and shook hands with Tyoka, and Tyoka wished them well.
    Interesting tidbit. What's also interesting is that it was the coaching staff who was there and made this gesture, and not the front office, who ultimately writes the checks and makes the decisions.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    I have no doubt that there is some "housecleaning" going on. Not particularly concerned about it, though.

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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Well, as long as they add what they subtract, probably X 2, I'll be happy. I read somewhere that the Rams have the least amount of scouting personnel in the NFL. Well, that shouldn't surprise me as this is the Shiggy Show....
    Last edited by txramsfan; -05-19-2006 at 09:03 AM.

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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by txramsfan
    Well, as long as they add what they subtract, probably X 2, I'll be happy. I read somewhere that the Rams have the least amount of scouting personnel in the NFL. Well, that shouldn't surprise me as this is the Shiggy Show....
    Well, they've spent the past 5 seasons without a Pro Personnel director (sidenote: when did everyone starting moaning about our drafts? Around 5 years ago?), so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the build up of our Pro Personnel department. I wish they would, but history says Shawgmunt won't do it.

    I don't know anything about these two scouts except they both appear to be "football" guys. It just doesn't seem right that "football" guys working for a "football" team are getting evaluated and dumped by a lawyer and an accountant who are the de facto owners for an absentee serial wife.
    "Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    I have no doubt that there is some "housecleaning" going on. Not particularly concerned about it, though.
    I'm not particularly concerned with the turn-over either. However, the manner in which it takes place does raise some red flags for me. Top quality people are less likely to be interested in positions in organizations they don't trust, or have heard negative things about. We'll just have to see how this all works out.

    Having a player find out he is no longer a part of the team by receiving the contents of his locker in a box goes beyond tacky though.
    Last edited by Truth; -05-20-2006 at 01:30 AM.
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    ... so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the build up of our Pro Personnel department. I wish they would, but history says Shawgmunt won't do it....
    can anyone blame the symbiotic duo for not wanting to relinquish the final say in all personnel matters? i wouldn't fret about the personnel evaluation process too much...zyggie has that point value system chart for evaluating cost/performance ratio thingamagiggy to fall back on...

    Quote Originally Posted by HUbison
    I don't know anything about these two scouts except they both appear to be "football" guys. It just doesn't seem right that "football" guys working for a "football" team are getting evaluated and dumped by a lawyer and an accountant who are the de facto owners for an absentee serial wife.
    let's not get carried away here...the nfl is about making money and georgia knows what she wants out of shawgmunt...and rest assured, they're two of the best in that arena...nuff said...

    by the way, georgia may throw a tantrum if she knew she was referred to as a cereal eating wife...

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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    I am not so sure what this means exactly, and I will admit I am kind of lost with the whole "pro personnel" term. But what I do know is that, I guess the FO wants not only a new coaching staff, but really just an overall different team. Like I said, I am not sure what the pro personnell thing is, nor do I know how much of a difference there will be with the subtraction of these guys...But what I am saying is that I guess they're just trying revamp what we call the "Rams".


    Always and Forever a fan of the St. Louis Rams

  11. #11
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerRam
    I have no doubt that there is some "housecleaning" going on. Not particularly concerned about it, though.
    Me niether. I just hope they do the right thing.
    RamsFan16

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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    I was worried during the coaching turnovers that Henry Ellard would be cut loose. Fortunately, that didn't occur. I believe that Wilbert Montgomery was cut loose - I thought he did a decent job. The hiring of Larry Marmie after Lovie Smith left was a move that I hated. marmie blew in AZ and he brought his blowing ways to STL. Hell, no wonder Archuleta wanted to leave.

    Regarding the terminations of the pro scouts - there are none of us that can expects to retire with a gold watch after 20 years.

    TRIVIA: The first full-time scout was hire by the Rams in the late 60's. He name is Dick Vermeil.
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    I'd have to agree with Nick on this one, the way decisions are made, the way people are treated, is slightly worrying. I recall thinking along these same lines earlier this offseason regarding several negotiations with players that didn't pan out. Unfortunately I cannot remember exactly which players, but there were a couple of situations - both with free agents brought in for a visit and players whose contracts were not renewed - where the front office reacted in much the same way.

    The whole way Shaw backed Martz officially through the media but then promptly fired him right after the end of the season, would be another notable one of these "incidents". I know it's a business and everything, but I still don't have much respect for lies and facades - or for lawyers and accountants intruding on football related matters thinking they know better.

    Hopefully this decision is coming from the coaching staff though, in that case I have no problem with the decision itself (I trust the coaching staff knows a thing or two about scouting), only how it was handled - sadly that seems to be part of a pattern to me.

  14. #14
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    Re: Disturbing trend in Rams Park as two scouts are let go

    Quote Originally Posted by by BillSugarCoatsIt
    Marino, who has been an NFL scout for 29 years, including the last six with the Rams, said he was given little explanation for his ouster. "I don't understand it," ...
    Try no pro-bowlers during your tenure with the Rams for a start. An over-haul of the Rams had to include the FO. These moves help to inspire some confidence rather than instill more doubt.

    Now if Georgia would just cash in her paper profits, we could start the real over-haul.

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