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  1. #1
    BarronWade's Avatar
    BarronWade is offline Registered User
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    Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    One of my friends from high school and i just talked 4 the first time in about 5 years. And anyway he is a huge college football fan and okay pro football fan.

    Anyway when we talked he told me that Bulger is more of a quiet guy in the lockerroom and all that. And come 2 think of it i heard reports that he seldom yells at people but had 2 when the rams O-line suxed. We dont have a veteran Ram receiver thats been with the club for a few years. And Action Jackson just doesnt seem like the leader. And we have a 1st time o-coordinator 2.

    So he told me the Rams need a leader offensively. He said the Rams should cut bulger next year and get Tim Tebow.

    So i got a question:

    Do the Rams need a offensive leader when spags is trying 2 establish a TEAM and destroy the individual selfishness and all that?


  2. #2
    Mooselini Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    I think we got a few good leaders on offense.

    Jason Brown, Steven Jackson and Bulger. Those three are great leaders. Jackson has never been put in a leadership position. But this is his first year to be a leader. He's got the assets.

  3. #3
    Dominating D Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Dan Fouts was not a vocal guy but a leader. Some would consider Joe Montana a low key guy but was known to be a confident leader especially in the huddle.

    Being Loud does not mean your a leader.

  4. #4
    jkramsfan Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooselini View Post
    I think we got a few good leaders on offense.

    Jason Brown, Steven Jackson and Bulger. Those three are great leaders. Jackson has never been put in a leadership position. But this is his first year to be a leader. He's got the assets.
    what are you going by,you say Jackson has never been put in that situation,yet you call him a great leader,Brown has not even played a regular season game for the Rams and you call him a great leader also and we know about Bulger,I am just asking the question why you think these are the right guys to take on the leadership role for the rams ? I'm not saying they are bad choices just wondering why them /

  5. #5
    eldfan's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    If you win your team is loaded with leaders, if you lose your team lack leadership, Winning solve everything.
    :ramlogo:

  6. #6
    jkramsfan Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Dan Fouts was not a vocal guy but a leader. Some would consider Joe Montana a low key guy but was known to be a confident leader especially in the huddle.

    Being Loud does not mean your a leader.
    thats a great point,you don't need to yell to be a great leader,but subtract that out what makes a great leader in the huddle or on the field for that matter ?

  7. #7
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Bulger won't change whether he individually is, or The Rams as a team are, doing well or not, that much we know. Some see that as a strength. Others not so much..lol...

    Whether he has leader status among the current core is anybody's guess & people frequently do. I think it's only natural for the O-linemen to favor a scrambling QB over a pocket passer so ,having ironically missed time this preseason due to RB flubs,not OL issues, probably has retarded the bonding/respect-building process.How long it takes for that dynamic to work itself out remains to be seen.Very few current Rams have seen Bulger at his best so it may take a while.

    I do worry about Jason Brown's relationship with Bulger. All this brouhaha about the exchange seemed like a bit of a pissing contest that may have led to Bulger's gazillion dollar pinkie injury.Not saying Brown did it deliberately but I wonder if the communication was as good as it should have been after quite a bit of practice time together. Plus JB's comments about Boller being the OL's kinda guy because he stupidly took an unnecessary hit on a scramble & walked away bug me a little.A veiled dig at MB or Jason trying to make up for his undiplomatic observations about Boller's Raven performance?

    Neither comment struck me as particularly mature or team-oriented.If Brown wants to be a leader, I think he needs to grasp the bigger picture a little better & leave the macho posturing & amateur analysis to the real amateurs like me who just irritate the board with their gassing.

    I'm probably seeing trouble where there is none; especially in the saturated media coverage of the off-season,it's easy to be fooled into thinking you know exactly what's going on with the players.

    But... I've been on teams where that kind of niggling BS really kept good players from performing well as a team.Save that psych warfare and inappropriate candor for the guys in the other shirts is my two cents.

    Whoever is at fault, those two need to get in a groove. I like Boller but the only way he gives us a better chance to win over a whole season than a healthy Bulger is if Jason Brown's unit isn't doing its job in synch with what Bulger needs to be effective and we need an escape artist instead to get anything done..

    It's an interesting subtle thing I'll be watching early in the season.

    As to the OP's last comment, I don't see leadership and individual selfishness as the same thing at all. I'd even say that good leaders are the very ones who motivate others to eliminate selfishness from their behavior by example and,if it suits their personality,calling guys on their BS.I respond more to the former than the latter; getting yelled at by a leader never made me feel as bad as the feeling I'd let my teammates down.

    QBs are almost always leaders,imo, but it doesn't doom the Rams if Bulger isn't "the" leader.

    Nor is the best player always a leader, ie SJ.Another example would be TO. I'm not saying SJ ever has been that kind of egotist but he could still be the most influential guy regarding stats & wins and not be the glue that holds the team together.Owens has almost always been one of the very best players on any given team but when was he considered a leader by his peers?

    Not in Dallas:

    "When the Dallas Cowboys picked their captains, Terrell Owens didn't make the cut.... "I told the guys that I am a self-appointed captain," Owens said, laughing. "We had our first players' meeting right before our first game. Coach had the captains come up and say some things, and if anybody else wanted to say some things, they had the floor. I stood up and offered to be that self-appointed captain. Everybody kind of got a chuckle out of that."

    Yeah, one of those embarrassed laughs you get when making an inappropriate joke & nobody wants to cause a stir,I'd guess.

    Certainly not in Philly where he clashed with The Alpha Male, McNabb, & got banished by the tribe.

    My dark horse for a leader who will emerge over the season is Karney. A tough guy whose style of play will get the attention of the grunts and has already gone out of his way to establish his relationship as Robin to SJ's Batman.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -08-30-2009 at 01:26 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Dan Fouts was not a vocal guy but a leader. Some would consider Joe Montana a low key guy but was known to be a confident leader especially in the huddle.

    Being Loud does not mean your a leader.
    Exactly!
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsbruce
    Some of the excuses made for Jared Cook are laughable.

  9. #9
    Nick's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Dan Fouts was not a vocal guy but a leader. Some would consider Joe Montana a low key guy but was known to be a confident leader especially in the huddle.

    Being Loud does not mean your a leader.
    Perfectly stated. Too often, fans seem to confuse leadership with someone who is confrontational. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. There are plenty of people who are leaders but don't get into others' faces and scream at them about their mistakes.

  10. #10
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    To answer your question, I think yes the team does need a leader. Not because its not in Jackson, or because its not in Bulger, but with everything being newly installed from Coaches to the system, from the player personnel and position changes, to even the attitude and "swagger". The uncertainties of the past few years with the losses and injuries and, may i add, lack of direction from the team has led to everyone looking for something to believe in..

    With that being said, I think everyone will look at Spags first to trust, and everything the team has been lacking. I know that hasnt EXACTLY answered your question, but maybe once the team has the "feel" for each other, people will look up more to theyre QB or theyre RB for leadership. Bulger's been through it and seen it so regardless he's capable and has what it takes to be a leader.(without the screaming lol)

  11. #11
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    One cannot be "anointed" a leader; it must come from within one's core being. You cannot fake this trait nor force it on someone- you either have it or you don't. And the best players aren't always your best leaders.

    Leadership takes on different forms. Sometimes it's through being vocal. Sometimes it's through mentoring younger guys or newcomers to the team. Other times, the best leaders are ones who simply lead by example. In addition, a true leader or captain:

    1. has the pulse of the locker room
    2. knows when to pat a guy on the back and knows when a guy needs a boot in the ass.
    3. displays the type of positive attitude and fundamentally sound play that is expected from everyone.
    4. has the full trust of the coaching staff
    5. is respected unconditionally by the players

    The Rams do not have an unquestioned leader, in my opinion, and a lot will be determined as the season plays out.

  12. #12
    Dominating D Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    One cannot be "anointed" a leader; it must come from within one's core being. You cannot fake this trait nor force it on someone- you either have it or you don't. And the best players aren't always your best leaders.

    Leadership takes on different forms. Sometimes it's through being vocal. Sometimes it's through mentoring younger guys or newcomers to the team. Other times, the best leaders are ones who simply lead by example. In addition, a true leader or captain:

    1. has the pulse of the locker room
    2. knows when to pat a guy on the back and knows when a guy needs a boot in the ass.
    3. displays the type of positive attitude and fundamentally sound play that is expected from everyone.
    4. has the full trust of the coaching staff
    5. is respected unconditionally by the players

    The Rams do not have an unquestioned leader, in my opinion, and a lot will be determined as the season plays out.

    So how would you know that a guys like James Butler, OJ, Steven Jackson, Mark Bulger, and so on have not meet the critera above. I respect your opinion but if your not in the locker room, practice field, off season workout program, and in the huddle how can you form a good opinion on this topic with the criteria listed above?

  13. #13
    BarronWade's Avatar
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    Dan Fouts was not a vocal guy but a leader. Some would consider Joe Montana a low key guy but was known to be a confident leader especially in the huddle.

    Being Loud does not mean your a leader.


    Okay but Bulger seldom yells at his O-line. We have a rookie starter at RT (most likely) and a mentally challenged starter at LT that gets called for false starts.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    One cannot be "anointed" a leader; it must come from within one's core being. You cannot fake this trait nor force it on someone- you either have it or you don't. And the best players aren't always your best leaders.

    Leadership takes on different forms. Sometimes it's through being vocal. Sometimes it's through mentoring younger guys or newcomers to the team. Other times, the best leaders are ones who simply lead by example. In addition, a true leader or captain:

    1. has the pulse of the locker room
    2. knows when to pat a guy on the back and knows when a guy needs a boot in the ass.
    3. displays the type of positive attitude and fundamentally sound play that is expected from everyone.
    4. has the full trust of the coaching staff
    5. is respected unconditionally by the players

    The Rams do not have an unquestioned leader, in my opinion, and a lot will be determined as the season plays out.
    So if they need a kick in the ass who is going 2 do that? I see Bulger as a guy who will just pat the person on the back and we all know Barron needs more than that.

  14. #14
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dominating D View Post
    So how would you know that a guys like James Butler, OJ, Steven Jackson, Mark Bulger, and so on have not meet the critera above. I respect your opinion but if your not in the locker room, practice field, off season workout program, and in the huddle how can you form a good opinion on this topic with the criteria listed above?
    I DON'T know with certainty and you're right, one must be on the field and in the locker room with them to determine if these traits are present. What I DO KNOW is the results and effort the past two seasons indicate leadership has been lacking. Bulger, Jackson, etc. may in fact have these qualities, but I want to see it manifest itself through weekly effort AND positive results- both of which were sorely lacking last season.

    It starts with the coaching staff and a vision. THEY are the ones who must weed out those who don't have the passion, pride or ability to perform. THEY are the ones who need to boot an Alex Barron in the ass if he falls asleep. But eventually, a coach can only do so much. It is up to the players to hold each other accountable. Sometimes a negative comment from a teammate is a lot more effective than one coming from a coach. This is where a Bulger, Jackson, Otogwe, etc. must come in. That is the big question mark: Who amongst these guys is both willing AND able to lead these guys?

  15. #15
    Dominating D Guest

    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Okay but Bulger seldom yells at his O-line. We have a rookie starter at RT (most likely) and a mentally challenged starter at LT that gets called for false starts.



    So if they need a kick in the ass who is going 2 do that? I see Bulger as a guy who will just pat the person on the back and we all know Barron needs more than that.
    Everything your saying is all based on assuming.

    Being loud equals leadership?

    Let me give you 2 styles and you tell me who you feel was more effective?

    Joe Montana - Played the game hard led his team by his play and confidence. I do not remember him ever yelling at his players. Players respected him and he won championships.

    Dan Mariano - Probably the best QB to ever play the game. Some would consider him a great leader who never won a championship. When I think of Dan I always remember what a arm and what a mouth on the guy. Dan often yelled at his players to the point where I question how effective it was for him and his team.

    If you give me the choice as a professional I do not need people yelling at me and getting in my face when I make an error. If I mess up I know and have no problems taikng responsibility for it. If it was me I would put my heart and soul on the line for a guy like Joe Montana. I would grow very tired of Dan and his drama.

    From my experience if you need a kick in the ass you may not be in the right profession. Sure some guys need to be pushed and that is why you have coaches. How do most people get motivated they see professionals who are well respected, have fat contracts, and how hard they work on their craft. All coaches have to do then is say, "you want that then you have to be willing to sacrafice like the Isaac Bruce, Steven Jackson, Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Mark Bulger, and the list can go on".

    Do not assume the the Rams have no leaders because they do not stand out when you watch preseason games. I believe that assumption will be wrong.

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