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  1. #16
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Okay but Bulger seldom yells at his O-line.
    Yelling does not necessarily make a leader.

    Terrell Owens yells a lot. Is he a leader, or just a cancer.

    Just look at Dom D's examples of Montana, Fouts.

    Don't get sucked into thinking yelling makes you a leader because it's a fallacy.
    Last edited by ramsbruce; -08-30-2009 at 03:23 PM.

    BRUUUUUUUUCE


  2. #17
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Perfectly stated. Too often, fans seem to confuse leadership with someone who is confrontational. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. There are plenty of people who are leaders but don't get into others' faces and scream at them about their mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    Okay but Bulger seldom yells at his O-line.
    Case in point...

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Ramsfan1 View Post
    What I DO KNOW is the results and effort the past two seasons indicate leadership has been lacking.
    Perhaps, but I don't know many leaders who can somehow magically will a bad football team into playing great football. This team has won five games in the last two years. It takes more than a bit more leadership to turn this ship around, and not having the ship turned around doesn't necessarily mean there aren't leaders on this team as well.

  3. #18
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    If you want an example of a leader who commanded respect, inspired players and produced results WITHOUT yelling or getting excited, look no further than Tony Dungy.

    Fiery temperament does not equate in any way, shape or form to a "good" leader.

  4. #19
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    If you want an example of a leader who commanded respect, inspired players and produced results WITHOUT yelling or getting excited, look no further than Tony Dungy.

    Fiery temperament does not equate in any way, shape or form to a "good" leader.
    Tony Dungy-1 SB Championship

    Mike Ditka-1 SB Championship

    I agree that fiery temperament isn't always needed to be a good leader, but to say it doesn't work in any way,shape or form isn't always the case either. every situation is different,some players don't respond to a Dungy type leader,just look at Singletary with the Niners,he is fiery and who coached him ? he must think that it works because he brought that same type of attitude with him to the coaching ranks.

  5. #20
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by jkramsfan View Post
    Tony Dungy-1 SB Championship

    Mike Ditka-1 SB Championship

    I agree that fiery temperament isn't always needed to be a good leader, but to say it doesn't work in any way,shape or form isn't always the case either. every situation is different,some players don't respond to a Dungy type leader,just look at Singletary with the Niners,he is fiery and who coached him ? he must think that it works because he brought that same type of attitude with him to the coaching ranks.
    Dick Vermeil ("There's no crying in Fooball!") 1 SB Championship
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  6. #21
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    If you want an example of a leader who commanded respect, inspired players and produced results WITHOUT yelling or getting excited, look no further than Tony Dungy.

    Fiery temperament does not equate in any way, shape or form to a "good" leader.
    ooooo Dungy thats a good point

    i guess well have 2 wait n see if Spags can be that kind of leader.

    Hopefully Bulger can lead the team but im not 2 confident with that because just remember the last bulger was good was when he had leaders around him like a Pace, Bruce, and Holt Hopefully it rubbed off on Bulger.

  7. #22
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by jkramsfan View Post
    Tony Dungy-1 SB Championship

    Mike Ditka-1 SB Championship

    I agree that fiery temperament isn't always needed to be a good leader, but to say it doesn't work in any way,shape or form isn't always the case either. every situation is different,some players don't respond to a Dungy type leader,just look at Singletary with the Niners,he is fiery and who coached him ? he must think that it works because he brought that same type of attitude with him to the coaching ranks.
    I hear what you're saying jk, but my point was that being vocal and getting excited will not automatically make you a good leader and is not a pre-requisite for being a good leader. I think those that make the case that Bulger is not a good leader because he never yells and screams are misguided.

    Now, if you want to talk about good leaders with a fiery temperament, look no further than probably the greatest of all time, Vince Lombardi.

  8. #23
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    I hear what you're saying jk, but my point was that being vocal and getting excited will not automatically make you a good leader and is not a pre-requisite for being a good leader. I think those that make the case that Bulger is not a good leader because he never yells and screams are misguided.

    Now, if you want to talk about good leaders with a fiery temperament, look no further than probably the greatest of all time, Vince Lombardi.
    Isaac Bruce never yelled either and I thought of him as a great leader by the way he played, practiced and conducted himself off the field,I would not hesitate to add Bulger to that list for the same reasons and because of Bulgers toughness which he has shown over the past 2 seasons.

  9. #24
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    ooooo Dungy thats a good point

    i guess well have 2 wait n see if Spags can be that kind of leader.
    Spags definitely has some fire, so I don't think you'll see him with a Dungy type demeanor, which is fine, that's who he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkramsfan View Post
    Isaac Bruce never yelled either and I thought of him as a great leader by the way he played, practiced and conducted himself off the field,I would not hesitate to add Bulger to that list for the same reasons and because of Bulgers toughness which he has shown over the past 2 seasons.
    I was thinking the same thing about Bruce and Bulger. In fact, I tried to come up with a "vocal" leader the Rams offense has had the last five or six years and I honestly can't think of one.

  10. #25
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by BarronWade View Post
    ooooo Dungy thats a good point

    i guess well have 2 wait n see if Spags can be that kind of leader.

    Hopefully Bulger can lead the team but im not 2 confident with that because just remember the last bulger was good was when he had leaders around him like a Pace, Bruce, and Holt Hopefully it rubbed off on Bulger.
    How, as a fan, are you or any of us really able to determine conclusively who is and isn't a leader on this team? How many teammates did Pace, Bruce, and Holt yell at during their time with the Rams?

  11. #26
    NJ Ramsfan1 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    There is more than one way to lead, as many of you have rightly pointed out. There is no "right" way; it's all a matter of hoping your approach and personality fits your personnel. Dungy vs. Ditka, Bobby Knight vs. John Wooden, Joe Torre vs. Billy Martin, et.al. Each was very successful with vastly different approaches. We could go on forever listing people with contrasting styles who were just as effective as the other guy.

    Because football is a physical, emotional game, people understandably feel being demonstrative and vocal equals effective leadership- which of course is sometimes but not always true.

    The Rams need someone to take the lead in buying into the new coaches' system and way of doing things. We will know soon enough who this will be.

  12. #27
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    Re: Do the Rams lack offensive leadership??

    Quote Originally Posted by r8rh8rmike View Post
    If you want an example of a leader who commanded respect, inspired players and produced results WITHOUT yelling or getting excited, look no further than Tony Dungy.

    Fiery temperament does not equate in any way, shape or form to a "good" leader.
    Perfect example

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