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Thread: Eithics

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    Ram Dragoon's Avatar
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    Eithics

    In the NFL where getting a competive edge is always sought, a question of eithics enter into the picture. Was watching ESPN where they announced Jerry Jones hired Tank Jones. A couple of nights ago while driving home I listened to the Townhall meeting about M. Vick and should he be given another chance to play football again once his debt to society is paid.

    I wounder just how the community views eithics so I post this question(s):

    Would you want Tank Jones on the Rams team?

    Would you if it was possible have M. Vick on the team if there was no Bulger?

    Would having T.O. be a win or a bust to have on the Rams team?

    If the Rams modified and found a better way to SPY on opponents giving the Rams a serious edge over opponents, should the Rams incorperate it?
    **Should the Rams if it where possible bride a player to get the play book for a Superbowl game?

    Are there any real limits in conduct. like deliberately injuring another player to get an edge, or is alls fair in love, war and professional football?


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    letsgoramz's Avatar
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    Re: Eithics

    well its sad to say that All of those things Really DO HAPPEN ! but everyone isnt like that some teams will do the crazy spying and whatever other will say let them do the spying we are just gonna play football
    Torry Holt Dont play that

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    Re: Eithics

    I honestly think Tank Jones would be a great pickup if we could get him for the right price. If you look at it, we already have a couple of ethic problem on our beloved team. Leonard Little still plays, Dominique Byrd and Claude Wroten are still around. To your other questions I definately say no though.

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    Re: Eithics

    I think this is a great post. So let me begin.

    -I would give Tank a shot, and if he screws up, he's gone(b/c im sure he'd get suspended for a while if he did screw up). But if he didnt he would be a great addition to this team.

    -If Bulger broke every rib in his body and every bone in both hands, i would still rather have him over Vick. I have never liked Vick as a quarterback, and not really that much as a player. I respected his ability and expected more production from him, as do most people. Now with S-Jax out, i would take him as a running back right now, unless Leonard can fill Jacksons shoes to an extent as a #2 back which would be fine with me. Vick is a running back with a QB title. He wont be back in the league for at least 3 years and who wants to sign a tainted underachiever? He is a great runner but not even a good qb.

    We have Holt, Bruce, and Bennet. We dont need a loud mouth selfish coach killer(even though our coach is already getting burned). He is a tremendous athlete and can find the ball often. He drops the ball a lot(or at least did, i dont know how many hes dropped this year). We dont need him.

    -We dont need to cheat to have an edge over opponents, we just need to fix the problems we have right now and get healthy. When that happens we will kick a$$ and take names. We are the Rams, not the pat's. We win the real way...or at least will soon.

    -You play to stop the opponent and bring them down, you dont deliberatly try and hurt someone. Its a physical game and people get hurt. Not one player can make the perfect tackle everytime.

    GO RAMS!!!
    Last edited by Tampa_Ram; -09-28-2007 at 02:39 AM.

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    helorm341 is offline Registered User
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    Re: Eithics

    Yes to tank, no to vick, yes to TO and no to spying.

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    Re: Eithics

    • I'm not sure about Tank, but I'd probably say no. Among other things, there's an issue about what you're bringing into the community. And not just strictly on moral grounds; there's a practical concern about bringing someone to town with a history of guns and violence.

    • No way I'd want Michael Vick on the team...unless he was only allowed to return kicks. It just might be worth it to watch him take those vicious hits.

    • I'd be disappointed if I heard we were spying or bribing people or something along those lines. I'm disappointed every time I hear about a steroids suspension even though I know it's probably going on all over the league.

    • As for intentionally hurting someone, that's a slippery slope. You want big hitters on the defense because they can rattle opponents, make receivers not want to go over the middle, and make quarterbacks jumpy. So to an extent, yeah, you do want to hurt people. But if you try to inflict serious long-term injuries, it's no longer just a game.

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    Re: Eithics

    I wouldn't want Tank Johnson on the Rams! (I'd want him playing for the Seahawks.)

    All of Tanks problems can be attributed to the anti-gun Nazis in Chicago -- he was never convicted or even charged for anything involving something he did with guns, he was merely charged with having them at the wrong place & time. He never robbed a liquor store or held anybody up with his guns, he simply possessed them. Carrying a concealed weapon is entirely legal in places where it is possible to get a permit to do so, but it's impossible to get one in Chicago. And he wasn't even carrying the gun on his person, it was in his car! If the guy who saw it (waiter, valet, something like that -- I don't remember exactly) had kept his trap shut, there never would have been any issue, no police raids, no convictions, no suspensions, nothing.

    Much was made about the fact that he had six guns in his house, including one or two "assault weapons", and 550 rounds of ammunition. Sportscasters pontificated about how unnecessary in all was, and treated Tank as if he was getting ready to start a war. But 550 rounds of ammo is barely a good day at the range for Tank and a buddy or two. And the caliber of the ammo was never mentioned -- you could buy 500 rounds of .22 at WalMart for about $10, and you could fit 2000 rounds of it in a shoe box. (If he had 550 rounds of 7.62 or .454, then that's a different story. But it's not unreasonable to have two or three boxes of ammo for each gun you have, no matter what the caliber.)

    I have lived near Chicago for over a year, my wife lived there for several years, and both of us can't stand the place -- we wouldn't live there again for any amount of $. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that Tank tried to find a good neighborhood to live in, couldn't, and decided that even the best neighborhood he could find would require some firepower for him to feel secure.

    One might question the need for him to carry a gun, but that's his decision to make under the Constitution (what's left of it). And a strong argument could be made that he really did need it, since his friend got murdered at a club while he was there. (Some people point to that as evidence that Tank's character is questionable -- but if mere proximity to a crime somehow taints someone's character, even if the crime is committed by someone else and is completely unrelated to anything that someone has done, then most of us are in trouble.) But even if other people conclude he didn't need any guns, he obviously thought he did.

    IMO, the only thing anyone might legitimately have against Tank is his DUI arrest, but even that is really weak.


    Goldenfleece, you said "there's a practical concern about bringing someone to town with a history of guns and violence." I challenge you to name Tank's "history of violence" -- unless you are suggesting that merely owning guns is an act of violence?



    Sorry if this is a tangent, guys. This is a story that originated and took off due to rampant stupidity, and now a lot of good people have been taken in by the rhetoric, and it just pushes my buttons like crazy. FYI, I'm a retired Marine, former weapons safety & marksmanship instructor, and I own quite a few guns (way more than six), just to let you know where my biases are.

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    Re: Eithics

    I'm not saying that. I'm not that familiar with all the details of Tank's case, and I can't truly speak to his character without knowing him. I just saw the headlines about police raids and stockpiles of assault weapons. It could be that his situation was blown out of proportion. I was speaking more to the issue at large.
    Last edited by Goldenfleece; -09-28-2007 at 12:42 PM.

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    Re: Eithics

    Tank Johnson would not have even been breaking the law here in Oklahoma. I would give him a pass.

    I am ashamed that Leonard little is a Ram, however. He freaking killed a woman in 1998 because he was driving drunk. The son of the woman has now resrted to crime and hasn't been able to cope with the death of his mother....not that he should be excused from committing the crimes that he has.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Re: Eithics

    Pretty much what I suspected...some great well thoughtout positions. I was shocked to here 60% would take m. Vick for their team if they can get him.

    Personally I wouldn't want Tank, Vick on the grounds of eithics. As to what message it says to the whole of society. After all when all is said and gone, its a GAME. Its a priviliage to play. There isn't a Fan here I doubt would love the privilage of playing for the Rams if they could. Granted Tanks situation is more complicated, but still I have to ask why he got himself into that mess. Regardless of having in a fire arm with all that ammo, I wounder why I would even need it. Once a player makes it to the NFL and scores some serious $$$, he doesn't need to travel in circles where a gun might be needed.
    **AS for Vick, he is a discrace. There is no question of right and wrong. Its just plain wrong and there has to be some serious mental issues. Its a cruelty I can't fathom and any person capable of such cruelty I don't want anywhere near me.

    As for spying and bribing, its pretty clear. There is wining and wining when you deserve it. Yes most folks know a cheat. But there is no satisfaction like knowing you earned it then to have gotten being a fraud.

    Hurting another player to get the edge is the arguement of the ends justify the means. The Hitlers, and Stalins all fell into that logic trap.

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    AlphaRam is offline Registered User
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    Re: Eithics

    It doesn't matter whether Tank is an NFL player, or a construction worker...if he bought those firearms, that shouldn't be a problem. It doesn't matter if there was 1, 6, or 100. A person doesn't have to "need" that many guns...they can buy them because they enjoy them. People target shoot and hunt with firearms...some people merely collect firearms.

    The Washington, DC gun laws are going before the Supreme Court after a federal Court struck down the gun laws similar to those in Chicago. If the Supreme Court upholds the case, then Tank could move back to Chicago with all of his guns and not be required to buy a permit.

    Do you have more than one TV, car, or any other thing that you could buy? What do you need with all of those TVs, cars, etc?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Re: Eithics

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaRam View Post
    Tank Johnson would not have even been breaking the law here in Oklahoma. I would give him a pass.

    I am ashamed that Leonard little is a Ram, however. He freaking killed a woman in 1998 because he was driving drunk. The son of the woman has now resrted to crime and hasn't been able to cope with the death of his mother....not that he should be excused from committing the crimes that he has.

    Are we blaming this thugs crappy lifestyle on Leonard too?

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    Re: Eithics

    Quote Originally Posted by helorm341 View Post
    Are we blaming this thugs crappy lifestyle on Leonard too?
    No, I do not believe that is what I typed.

    Leonard Little took a life through his illegal actions. Little is fortunate that Goodell wasn't the commissioner when that incident occurred.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Re: Eithics

    At face value, I would have to say no to all the above.

    However, as in real life, there are shades of grey and not just black-and-white.

    People claim "extenuating circumstances" and others simply try to mitigate the alleged offense(s).

    Rarely do we get an accurate story but rather what the reporter wants to say. This is why so many celebrities are "misquoted" or "taken out of context"
    RnD

    GO RAMS!!

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