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  1. #16
    sosa39rams's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will51 View Post
    I agree. If we can get an elite receiver to match up with clayton and danny in the slot think about how dangerous we can be
    I would love to see that....although Pat Shurmur wouldn't allow it anyways..


  2. #17
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Marshall Faulk was a trade, not a free agent.

    Big free agent deal? How about Drew Bennett, I hear he worked out well. Will Witherspoon was considered a big signing, Jacob Bell was given a lot of money, and so was Jason Brown. We also made Josh Brown one of the highest paid kickers in the league. And technically, signing Atogwe was a free agent move. He was unrestricted

    The problem with free agency is you wind up paying $12mil for a guy worth $8mil and so on. It's easy to sit there and yell at the Rams to drop $40mil guaranteed on one guy, but you also seem like the type to yell for the Rams to sign a guy, then yell for the coaches to be fired for their horrible mistake when that guy doesn't work out.

    Seems like we need a brief return to the discussion that players, as free agents, cannot just be signed on a whim. This isn't madden where if you offer a contract, they sign. There are 31 other teams out there to choose from, and I am sure with their own fans blowing a gasket because duh, this guy was a free agent, so all you had to do was fax over a contract and he was signed, there was no need to negotiate or sell the city or the organization or factor in their desires geographically and what kind of scheme they want to play in and if they are willing to play for a cellar dweller etc. We can just sign whoever whenever, right? Doesn't work that way.

    As far as Vjax goes, although he is available via trade, he is still a free agent. He may be unwilling to play for the Rams unless the price tag is excessive, or he may not be willing to sign more than a 1 year deal so he can be a full free agent, in which case trading a 2nd for him would be dumb. Also, San Diego gets to have a say in where he goes, and they may well be content to let him sit for a year if they don't get a massive overpayment, just to send a message to others that if you want to sit, you get to sit and not make money or pro bowls.

    It bothers the holy heck out of me when people try to present issues of signing free agents and making trades as black and white. do you have to be happy with those roster? No. Absolutely not. But let's make one thing clear: You do not know if or how hard the Rams pursued other free agents. You just don't. Agents and teams don't share every phone call, every negotiation, and every scrap of rumor mill fodder. Lack of signing does not = a lack of trying. Do I know if they tried? No, but neither does anyone else here.

  3. #18
    Will51's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by berg8309 View Post
    Marshall Faulk was a trade, not a free agent.

    Big free agent deal? How about Drew Bennett, I hear he worked out well. Will Witherspoon was considered a big signing, Jacob Bell was given a lot of money, and so was Jason Brown. We also made Josh Brown one of the highest paid kickers in the league. And technically, signing Atogwe was a free agent move. He was unrestricted

    The problem with free agency is you wind up paying $12mil for a guy worth $8mil and so on. It's easy to sit there and yell at the Rams to drop $40mil guaranteed on one guy, but you also seem like the type to yell for the Rams to sign a guy, then yell for the coaches to be fired for their horrible mistake when that guy doesn't work out.

    Seems like we need a brief return to the discussion that players, as free agents, cannot just be signed on a whim. This isn't madden where if you offer a contract, they sign. There are 31 other teams out there to choose from, and I am sure with their own fans blowing a gasket because duh, this guy was a free agent, so all you had to do was fax over a contract and he was signed, there was no need to negotiate or sell the city or the organization or factor in their desires geographically and what kind of scheme they want to play in and if they are willing to play for a cellar dweller etc. We can just sign whoever whenever, right? Doesn't work that way.

    As far as Vjax goes, although he is available via trade, he is still a free agent. He may be unwilling to play for the Rams unless the price tag is excessive, or he may not be willing to sign more than a 1 year deal so he can be a full free agent, in which case trading a 2nd for him would be dumb. Also, San Diego gets to have a say in where he goes, and they may well be content to let him sit for a year if they don't get a massive overpayment, just to send a message to others that if you want to sit, you get to sit and not make money or pro bowls.

    It bothers the holy heck out of me when people try to present issues of signing free agents and making trades as black and white. do you have to be happy with those roster? No. Absolutely not. But let's make one thing clear: You do not know if or how hard the Rams pursued other free agents. You just don't. Agents and teams don't share every phone call, every negotiation, and every scrap of rumor mill fodder. Lack of signing does not = a lack of trying. Do I know if they tried? No, but neither does anyone else here.
    Im talking about an elite signing or trade. Jason brown is good but not elite. Boldin or vj would be elite in my opinion. Drew bennett not so much

  4. #19
    sosa39rams's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    How is VJ elite? Please explain......

    He is no better than Jason Brown when he was a FA

    VJ is so overrated its not even funny... I mean yeah he put up 1K yards, but only caught 68 passes! Also, he played with a pass happy offense and Philip Rivers.

    He is not a top 5 WR probably not even a top 10.

  5. #20
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will51 View Post
    Im talking about an elite signing or trade. Jason brown is good but not elite. Boldin or vj would be elite in my opinion. Drew bennett not so much
    I'm sorry pal, but you and all the VJ sympathizers do NOT get the big picture ...

  6. #21
    Will51's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    How is VJ elite? Please explain......

    He is no better than Jason Brown when he was a FA

    VJ is so overrated its not even funny... I mean yeah he put up 1K yards, but only caught 68 passes! Also, he played with a pass happy offense and Philip Rivers.

    He is not a top 5 WR probably not even a top 10.
    Not top ten ha ha your joking right? The only receivers that are better that come to mind are larry andre reggie. Not saying he is better than every one else but you can sure argue he is just as good

  7. #22
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Not even close in my mind. All these receivers are better than he is.

    Andre Johnson
    Brandon Marshall
    Calvin Johnson Jr
    Anquan Boldin
    Larry Fitzgerald
    Greg Jennings
    Desean Jackson
    Reggie Wayne
    Randy Moss
    Roddy White
    Steve Smith
    Wes Welker
    Sidney Rice
    Miles Austin
    Marque Colston

    Is that enough?

  8. #23
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Ok first, Jason Brown is one of the top 5 centers in the league.
    Second
    1. Andre Johnson
    2. Randy moss
    3. Brandon Marshall
    4. Reggie Wayne
    5. Miles Austin
    6. Calvin Johnson
    7. Greg Jennings
    8. Marques Colston
    9. Steve Smith
    10. Wes Welker

    Those are the 10 elite WR's in this league, those are the guys that can get open and make the big play. Vincent Jackson is not elite by any means, and you can even argue that Phillip Rivers is the reason he is considered good. As for the rest of your post, I am not gonna go over it because needless to say, I disagree.

  9. #24
    Will51's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r View Post
    Ok first, Jason Brown is one of the top 5 centers in the league.
    Second
    1. Andre Johnson
    2. Randy moss
    3. Brandon Marshall
    4. Reggie Wayne
    5. Miles Austin
    6. Calvin Johnson
    7. Greg Jennings
    8. Marques Colston
    9. Steve Smith
    10. Wes Welker

    Those are the 10 elite WR's in this league, those are the guys that can get open and make the big play. Vincent Jackson is not elite by any means, and you can even argue that Phillip Rivers is the reason he is considered good. As for the rest of your post, I am not gonna go over it bcecase needless to say, I disagree.

    Again i said he is arguably as good as these guys. I did not say he was better but ARGUABLY AS GOOD

  10. #25
    Azul e Oro is online now Registered User
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug View Post
    The difference with those other teams that you mention is that when they hit the free agent market they already have a solid, competitive nucleus of players that are working in a competitive atmosphere and have demonstrated a trend towards winning. If you are already competitive and need a couple puzzle pieces to push you over that edge into the post-season and beyond, then great. But you can't build a winner through free agency. Believe me. Signing V-Jax isn't going to instantly make you serious competitors any more than losing Bush will instantly send the Saints to the basement.

    And FWIW, I know it's only week 2, but y`all are one of the bottom ranked rushing teams while being top 10 in allowing your QB to get hit. If I were really bent on spending money on contracts, I'd worry more about shoring up my line than picking up a pass catcher. It would pay much greater dividends and I think you'd be surprised at how good some of your existing skill players actually are.

    Edit - Woot! 100 posts!
    Yeah, if there was ever a test case for that foundation-first argument, it would have to be The Skins.And even then, it has to be the right pieces. VJ could just as easily be the next Haynesworth as the next Randy Moss.

    The Rams have actually invested a lot in their line but rookie struggles, a decimated TE corps ( take away Cooley & Davis from McNabb & see what happens),losing probably the best WR in pre-season (Avery) & starting a rookie QB have prevented the team from seeing the consistent payoff yet.

    Btw, I think Shanahan owes our GM a bucket of crab for sending Barron to Dallas...lol..

    By the end of the year when Carriker will probably be on IR and Haslett's D is still getting ripped through the air, he may want to give Devaney a dose of an entirely different species of crabs, however.

    For those who still insist on kicking the rotting corpse, I ask why did Detroit and Houston continue to lose when they had their mega-WRs in Calvin and Andre Johnson?
    Not much good having an impressive Johnson if you don't have the game to use him effectively.

    If VJ can be had for a single high pick and a big bag of Wal-dollars, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I have yet to hear why he would be a cure-all for The Rams that merits the price.Can he stop the outside run? Get pressure on the QB while Long is being triple-teamed? Keep everyone calm & focused when the game is on the line? Manage the clock? Make Sam soak up experience of the NFL game at a faster rate than he has already impressively done? I don't think so.
    Last edited by Azul e Oro; -09-22-2010 at 05:50 PM.

  11. #26
    DPskywalker is offline Registered User
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    How is VJ elite? Please explain......

    He is no better than Jason Brown when he was a FA

    VJ is so overrated its not even funny... I mean yeah he put up 1K yards, but only caught 68 passes! Also, he played with a pass happy offense and Philip Rivers.

    He is not a top 5 WR probably not even a top 10.

    Buddy, how about he's led the league in Yards Per Catch every year. He totally changes how a team defends you. They have to cheat a safety back...now slants are open, etc.

    He's a Pro Bowl WR any way you slice it, and he's entering his prime. For a 2nd and a 4th? Avery and Justin King for VJ? Way too steep!!!

  12. #27
    DPskywalker is offline Registered User
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by sosa39rams View Post
    Not even close in my mind. All these receivers are better than he is.

    Andre Johnson
    Brandon Marshall
    Calvin Johnson Jr
    Anquan Boldin
    Larry Fitzgerald
    Greg Jennings
    Desean Jackson
    Reggie Wayne
    Randy Moss
    Roddy White
    Steve Smith
    Wes Welker
    Sidney Rice
    Miles Austin
    Marque Colston

    Is that enough?
    With the exception of 3-4 of those guys, VJ belongs right in with all of the rest. No question.

  13. #28
    Will51's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by DPskywalker View Post
    With the exception of 3-4 of those guys, VJ belongs right in with all of the rest. No question.
    I agree totally. Jackson is right in the mix which makes him elite

  14. #29
    sosa39rams's Avatar
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by DPskywalker View Post
    Buddy, how about he's led the league in Yards Per Catch every year. He totally changes how a team defends you. They have to cheat a safety back...now slants are open, etc.

    He's a Pro Bowl WR any way you slice it, and he's entering his prime. For a 2nd and a 4th? Avery and Justin King for VJ? Way too steep!!!
    I love how all you guys make it sound nice and good. Yeah, I'd give Avery and King too, but you obviously go to one of our worst drafts in recent years... What about Saffold and Gilyard? I mean yeah they haven't panned out yet but...

    Anyway, you have your opinion, and I have myn. I am able to wait until next year for A.J Green who by the way is going to be better than V(overrated)J....

    And I'd rather have a receiver who catches 100+ passes a season and has a lower YPC than one who catches 68 and has one of the best YPC's...

    ala Brandon Marshall or Vincent Jackson? Who you talking? 'Cuz I know who Im taking.....BMARSH

  15. #30
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    Re: Enough is enough!

    "Enough is enough."

    Indeed. We don't need these daily Vincent Jackson threads to get the message. I'd have rather gotten Brandon Marshall, but that ship has sailed. Vincent Jackson is good, but he's not that good, and he can't be had cheaply. Surely there is some other problem on the team we can gripe about for a week other than the lack of a top flight receiver.

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